Maybe if the Ori got involved. Otherwise, I don't think even an O'niell-class ship could stand up to a Star Destroyer. Let's not even talk about a Ha'tak versus the Enterprise...

As for ST Vs. SW-

Disregarding the Q wiping everybody out, I think the Jedi are a force to be reconed with. I really don't think the Borg would be that much of a problem for Jedi, even discounting the fact that Borg might not be able to assimilate to plasma weapons. Star Trek's main advantage is it's huge resources, what with replicators and whatnot. Star Wars, as someone pointed out, is far more militia-based then Star Trek.

But yeah, the Combine would probably pwn them both.

I'm going to singlehandedly disprove every pro-star wars point on a per-posted basis. For the sake of me, I'm just going to use regular quotes and the name.

Freelancer: "Another point I would like to add is that SW may not be capable of destroying ST, but ST will *never* destroy SW because hyperspace is an order of magnitude faster than warp. Sure ST has slipstream, but it's nowhere nearly as reliable as hyperdrives."

>It's highly debated on the relative sizes of the galaxy. It's far more likely that the ST universe is much, much, much bigger than the SW universe. But this is really a nit pickity point.


Knightrider's top 10:
10: already been addressed
9: How many times in the movie did the Millennium Falcon's engines fail? How many of those times were life and death situations?
8: Been addressed, with the whole stripped naked, beaten, etc. vs. truth serum.
7: I don't know who Harry Mudd is.
6: Neither are most characters, and even Kirk wasn't. That's a stereotype that's been highly propagated.
5: One hyphenated word: Wide-beam (phasers set to shoot out in lots of directions. Lets see a jedi block nine simultaneous phaser beams)
4. ???
3. No, he can't. There are limits to the Force. Vader and the Emperor didn't fell all the rebels at a thought, if they could have they would.
2. Han Solo was also a foolhardy, dangerous, reckless pilot. Picard had familes on board.
1. So?


Matterialize: "Try a Tommygun."
>First Contact!
"Doesn't the Executor completely dwarf any ship in the Starfleet arsenal? Yeeaaahh... Star Trek may have transporters and replicators, but Star Wars's ships and stuff are just way bigger than Star Trek stuff. Well, maybe a Borg Cube could take on an Imperial Star Destroyer. Come to think of it, how big are cubes, and ISP's? Does anyone have an Essential guide?"

>Didn't some small guy say "Size matters not."? If you can beam explosives onto the bridge... Which has been done, on occasion. (Beaming a proton torpedo into a critical area of a ship)
Also: Borg cubes are HUGE. In First Contact, the Enterprise does a few flybies, and it's tincy weency. Remember, there are hanger doors on the Cube big enough for the Enterprise to fly into.

JKWhoSaysNi: "Star trek doesnt have X-Wings. And anything that small would easily be wiped out by Star Wars fighters. Star Trek doesnt have fighters. Which is their weakness. "

>ST fighters, however, have shields. They can take a lot of abuse. SW fighters can be downed by grazing them with a single laser blast. So 5 shuttlecraft vs. a squadren of X-Wings... My money is on the shuttles.


Impi: " Even the Gungans have shields."
>And how horribly designed they were. Their shields were A) Huge power intensive things that needed to be carried by giant animals, or B) Medieval style shields that one can just shoot *over*

Commander ###: "Star Wars seems alot more practical and doesn't have crappy uniforms."
>Did you ever /see/ the Imperial Uniforms? I doubt you could lift your arms above your head!



I do, however, agree with Rutherven. Stargate would beat both, if only because when they're about to lose, the Tokra would pop out of thin air (Literally. They'd just "appear" and pretend they've been there all along) with some asinine solution to the problem that they couldn't have thought of before and it makes everything all better and they magically win.

Also, Ha'tak vs. Enterprise would be an easy win to the Goa'uld. It's pretty much a living weapon... Throw in the Replicators? They only beat the Replicators because of a weapon that was designed to, you know, irradicate all biological matter in the galaxy.


Anyway. Sorry I posted like this, but I can't belive I haven't seen this thread yet, and just wanted to address all my points.

Step 1: watch the enterprise flying at warp speed.
Step 2: watch voyager flying through slipstream.
step 3: watch the falcon going into hyperspace.
step 4: watch the scene in ROTJ when the rebel fleet approaches the death star via hyperspace.

You can clearly see I win.

I'm going to have to go with Freelancer here. Assuming that the SW galaxy spans as about as wide as ours (10^5 ly), a SW hyperdrive ship can cross galaxies in what is it weeks? Warp drive takes DECADES to span a galaxy. Faster FTL technologies are limited to all but a scant number of species. The Borg's transwarp comes to mind. In SW, EVERYONE had hyperdrive tech. No Fed ship can outrun a SW ship, period.

Wow. Thank God I have a beer in me hands instead of something like Jolt or Bawls. I feel really really nerdy.

Edit: Bah 10^6 = 1,000,000 10^5 = 100,000

My main point is slipstream looks *exactly* like hyperspace, like visually and stuff. Thus, SW ships are a helluva lot faster than ST ships.

Uh, we never see how Leia or Han are tortured exactly. SW was more for children. No need for showing that.
And if you take the EU into account they often remember the torturing with horror.



SW fighters have shields, too. And just because we saw the X-Wings in the movies blow up from a single hit doesn't mean that they didn't take any hits before that.

Generally speaking shields seem to have played a smaller role in SW than in ST. This can mean two things: SW shields are ineffective or SW weapons are particularly effective against shields. We don't actually know which one is true, so this can't be used as an argument to support ST.

here is a chart comparing a bunch of starwars ships and some startrek ships with alot of other ships along for the ride, the U.S.S Enterprise E looks to be about half the size of a SD.

1 pixel = 10 meters
http://www.st-minutiae.com/misc/comparison.gif

if you want simply ship vs ship and want to compare size.... I think a fleet of SD's would out match a fleet of soveriegn class ships from startrek.

and executor class SD would kick the *** of mostly every scifi ship there though....

http://www.merzo.net/2mpp.htm I think a goa'uld mothership might put up a hell of a fight with a Star destroyer though.


http://www.merzo.net/ <-That site has almost EVERY vehicle I can think of from mostly every scifi show.... alot of star wars vessels, every major startrek and star wars ship, it even has a goa'uld mothership, c'mon.....

The halo Ring world is MASSIVE compared to the second Death Star, the games never seemed to give it that sense of scale.

http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/index.html

not SW vs ST but Empire vs Federation.

I suppose including other races and such changes the balance.

This guy seems fairly passionate about psuedo-science.

Actually, the Enterprise did achieve travelling to another galaxy with a single warp drive in a matter of minutes.

Ummm....no.

Star Wars:
Speed: travel from galactic core systems to outer rim systems ("halfway across the galaxy" as Amidala put it) is shown repeatedly in ANH, TPM, and AOTC. It is invariably SAME-DAY TRAFFIC, typically a FEW HOURS.

Star Trek:
Speed: Voyager took 7 years to crawl across PART of ONE QUADRANT of the galaxy, even with repeated assists from alien races, stolen technology, and even the occasional shove from a godlike being. Not hours ... YEARS.

Source: http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/Essays/FiveMinutes.html

Grant, for the posting that array of awesomeness, you have my undying eternal un-yielding love, for all time.

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Yes. As seen in Star Trek: The Next Generation Season 1 Episode 6 (Where No One Has Gone Before), the accepted speed limitation of the warp drive is not limited by power but rather limited by human understanding of warp fields and subspace.

In the aforementioned episode, the Enterprise-D was able to reach the edge of the Universe in a matter of seconds. It holds the ultimate speed record in Sci Fi, seconded only by Slipstream technology which has appeared in several Sci Fi series.

Yeah yeah, star trek is a world full of anomolies and one-episode-wonders.



Hardly impressive.

Star Wars, on the other hand, is a world of consistency where going to hyperspace is like driving to the market.

I love them both so much...how could I choose?

...and I disagree with whoever said the Jedi could take the borg. That's a big maybe. A Borg Cube against those little shuttles Jedi travel in (forgive the absence of technical terms - I'm tired)...no contest. Up close the borg move really badly so - one on one Jedi would dominate. But large scale....I'm thinking resistance is futile.

hurr. It still happened.

Star Trek ships are also slow as hell. In Voyager, they get shot out what, 65,000 lightyears from Earth and it turns out they will spend like what. 80 years to travel home?

In Star Wars, the distance from one side of the galaxy to the other is like 100,000 miles and takes like what, 2? 3? weeks to travel tops.

100,000 miles can be covered in less time using our technology than star wars according to you. :p

Yes, quite the amusing mistake.

Star Wars is more entertaining than Star Trek. Even George Lucas's blundering cannot change this fact. Also, Star Wars has a better soundtrack. The winner is obvious.

On the subject of Borg, the Vong would kick their asses, assuming that the Borg couldn't assimilate Vong biotech. (They couldn't assimilate Species 8472, but they might just be an exception.)

this could be fun...

I have to admit I know more about Star Trek than Star Wars, so this is very likely to be swayed one way ...

firstly on the size of the relative galaxies,

The Hyperdrive According to the good ole starwars.com website once you are in Hyperspace you speed is limitless, so according to this the SW universe could very well be as large as ST, if not even larger.

(btw did you know the millenium falcon was in first contact, click here ILM rock)

With the use of the Hyperdrive any ship in the SW universe would be able to outrun any ST ship, as long as we are talking about stuff in the TNG/DS9/VOY era. Yep ok there are wormholes and there was that one off in TNG where the enterprise skipped over into another universe but it has yet to be repeated, but thats not to say it won't...

Also when you take into account voyagers meetings with some federation ships from the future they are able to transverse this great distance in an instance, even Janeway (her boring self) at the end of voyager with the bit of new technology from the Klingons (I think) was able to do the same, skip from the Alpha to Delta Quadrant in mere moments and jump back however many years.

So both sides have the ability to jump from one side of the galaxy to the other, Star Trek also seem to have some control over time too, in 30ish years in the future.

________________________________

next thing...

In all of these battles of Star Destoryer vs Enterprise you all seem to be forgetting how in a large scale war the federation (and everyone else) puts out large fleets of ships, for instance;

In the dominion war and the re-taking of DS9 from the dominion the federation fleet consists of 600 starships, yet still they are out-numbered by the dominion 2-to-1 (link wiki is great, so many nerds, so much time :em321: )

So on those numbers alone, and that wasn't nearly the entire fleet of the federation or dominion your looking at a combined fleet of well over ~1500 for the dominion (low estimate not including ships in the gamma) and probably well over 1000 for the federation, and thats starships, there were also support fighters mixed in there as well, not runabouts but proper single/double person fighters (clicky the pic I think is from the re-take of DS9)

_________________________________________

As for the amount of people on each type of ship,

There is a combined total (staff, stormtroopers, etc..) of 46,700 people on a Star Destoryer (linky ) which is waaaaaaaaaay in excess of anything you are ever likely to find on a star trek vessel, maybe even space station.

The Star Destoryers (depending on type) also carry 70+ x-wings, 20 AT-ATs, and 30 AT-STs. Whether they can carry all this at once or are fitted out for special missions I haven't a clue, literally this is all coming from wiki.

On the numbers and size front Star Wars wins hands down, the Star Trek universe doesn't really have anything to compare with the size of these things, they are over a 1 mile long for christs sake...!!! Thinking about it a bit more though, the crew could well be pretty squashed in what with the hanger bays and all, not the comfort of Star Trek.

Having a closer look at the Enterprise E (linky ) does show some interesting things, firstly its about 1km shorter....but can in a squeeze can hold 12,800 from a normal crew of 855. (Enterprise D can hold 15,000 from a crew of ~1,000)

__________________________________

Power....

On the source of power for each universe I think Star Trek has a major advantage, firstly from the info on the Star Destoryers we find (at least at the time of the Clone Wars) that the Star Destroyers main reactor could consume up to 40,000 tons of fuel per second!!! Thats a heck of amount of fuel and resources.

Star Trek on the other hand has the warp drive (matter/antimatter reactor) which in theory at least, is able to produce A LOT more energy for no where near the same usage of resources, they also have fusion reactors and can collect fuel from space itself.

As for what powers the death star...no idea...

__________________________________

Shields and weapons...

no going to comment as there are no numbers to compare against, (that I can find) Star Trek list the power of their shields and weapons but can't seem to find anything for Star Wars.

I will say that both sides have the ability to blow up planets,

Star Wars you have the death star etc...

Star Trek, virtually any starship, in a couple of episodes the enterprise is shown to use its phaser to drill into the mantel and possibly the core, (can't remember) either way, from then all that would be required to blow the planet up would be a few well placed photons, which they are capable of doing. The same goes for Suns.

So, although I think the Star Wars ships have more weapons onboard each ship, I think the Star Trek weapons are more powerful and more accurate, this is a personal opinion, no way to back it up.

__________________________________

As for land battles, if and when they occur, I think the Star Wars universe would easily have the upper hand here, basically because we've never really seen much of any land vechicles in Star Trek to compare against.

__________________________________

Bar in mind that this comparsion was focused mostly on comparing Federation to Imperial. The Star Trek universe has many more established factions than Star Wars and that could well be the reason why the imperial and rebel captial ships are so frigging huge compared to Star Trek.

However I haven't taken into account many of the races large ships in Star Trek, namely the Scimitar which when compared to other ships in Star Trek is a monster.

Anyways, I have far better things to do with my life than continue to rabble on here.

you don't want to know how long that all took to write...

[QUOTE=James Bond]
Shields and weapons...

no going to comment as there are no numbers to compare against, (that I can find) Star Trek list the power of their shields and weapons but can't seem to find anything for Star Wars.

I will say that both sides have the ability to blow up planets,

Star Wars you have the death star etc...

Star Trek, virtually any starship, in a couple of episodes the enterprise is shown to use its phaser to drill into the mantel and possibly the core, (can't remember) either way, from then all that would be required to blow the planet up would be a few well placed photons, which they are capable of doing. The same goes for Suns.

So, although I think the Star Wars ships have more weapons onboard each ship, I think the Star Trek weapons are more powerful and more accurate, this is a personal opinion, no way to back it up.

[/QUOTE]


I would say that Star Trek weaponry is definitely more accurate (I'm not much of a trek fan, but I don't think I've ever seen a ship's phasers actually miss its target.), but overall power is debatable. Turbolasers definitely feel more powerful (the sounds they make when firing, along with the visible recoil it causes), but that doesn't say much.

However, I will point out that, while an average Star Wars capital ship cannot completely destroy a planet, they can pretty much render them uninhabitable. The Republic/Empire used a tactic referred to as "Base Delta Zero", which pretty much means "blast the crap out of the planet until it burns out most of the atmosphere and turns the surface into molten slag", and this had been accomplished with ships as small as the Acclamator-class assault ships seen in Episode 2.

Just food for thought. Like I said, I'm not much of a trek fan, so I don't really know their capabilities.

and a similar tactic was seen in KotOR. So even the old repulic technology was capable of this.

It was the Sith who blew the **** out of Telos as said in KotOR I and II

The orbital bombardment of Kotor 1 struck me more as just blowing up the major cities on the surface, not actually liquifying the planet's crust. Either way, though, it did blow the crap out of the planet, and that's the important factor here. *shrug*

Well, there was only one ship bombarding Taris. It can only do so much before the cliche villain gets bored.

Bond, if theres one person I would like to meet in a pub and talk about random geeky physics and scifi, it would be you sir!

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If the people of Star Trek ever got REALLY desperate, they could modify their ships to reach Warp factor 10, which would not only allow them to be anywhere instantaneously, but would accelerate their evolution, making them smarter and such. Only downside is after a day or so, they'd be so evolved that they wouldn't care, though that might be treatable... never quite understood why this didn't take off >_>

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/VOY/episode/68882.html

Nope, Jordi specifically stated in one episode that the Enterprise had surpassed warp 10, and they weren't everywhere at once.

In the original Star Trek, they regularly broke Warp 10 too, AND they travelled to the center of the galaxy in no time flat. Warp speeds have flucuated in the series, but solidified after the first season or so of TNG, I think.

(and it's spelled "Geordi" <_<)

well, as human understanding of the technology grows, the warp scale gets altered, we know that in a future timeline federation medical freighters can reach speeds of warp 13 and the enterprise can exceed even that.... so really, warp speeds are not a fair representation of their speed since the warp scales get re-adjusted every so often, example.... Enterprise (ST:ENT) could only go a max of warp 4, not sure about Ent from TOS, but Ent D could maintain a cruise speed of something like warp 7 and a max speed of warp 9.9, voyager could maintain a cruise speed of something like 8 and a max of 9.99.

Um, no. Planet cores are made of iron, not C4.

Also, the Borg would die of shame as soon as they assimilated Jar Jar.

I think it is more due to the reactions that take place due to the explosion of a couple of large photons. I think the planet is either destroyed by the large pressure fronts that travel through the mantle and errupt on the surface, or, its thought that the core/mantle have radioactive elements produced from fission inside the core and the explosions cause a chain reaction.

This is of course non-provable....

Reading through http://www.stardestroyer.net/Empire/ I think Star Trek would get its arsed kicked...although I do think that site is heavily biased, the (fictional) facts speak for themselves.

[edit]Although this site http://www.st-v-sw.net/STSWhi2.html kinda has the federation winning....

really I no longer care...

[/edit]

Everyone knows that planet cores are made of water and that you can take a submarine through the core.

Every time the break Warp 10, they screw up. The Warp Factor scale is a logrithmic scale, just like earthquakes. You can't have a 10 earthquake, the scale doesn't work like that. When Voyager went "Warp 10" it turned Tom Paris into a newt. (hee hee)

In the last episode of TNG, All Good Things, in the future ships are shown going Warp 26, if memory serves. I think this would just be using an old name for a new system of measurement.

Star Trek is a stupid space drama with pseudo-science. Star Wars is an action trillogy.

Pick your preference.

[QUOTE=James Bond]I think it is more due to the reactions that take place due to the explosion of a couple of large photons. I think the planet is either destroyed by the large pressure fronts that travel through the mantle and errupt on the surface, or, its thought that the core/mantle have radioactive elements produced from fission inside the core and the explosions cause a chain reaction.[/QUOTE]

Enterprise with all its phasers and photon torpedoes has very hard time getting through the shields of a single Klingon warship. And you would expect somebody to believe that same ship with those same weapons could destroy a planet? If I was very merciful I might believe they could create a new, short-lived volcano. But all in all all the energy they could possibly output would be totally insignificant compared to the energy already present in the magma under the crust of a planet.

Somehow I think a planet is a bit more structurally strong than a Klingon warship.