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New Gospel
2006-04-06, 11:01 PM #1
Hopefully this isn't old news, but they've recently discovered and translated a new gospel in Egypt. the Gospel of Judas.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/06/science/06cnd-judas.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5087&en=d59683ca1c4d906d&ex=1144555200

http://www9.nationalgeographic.com/lostgospel/document.html

When I heard I was about ready to write it off but it's from legit sources: National Geographic and the New York Times.

Fascinating stuff (please do not turn this into any kind of religious flamewar)
Fincham: Where are you going?
Me: I have no idea
Fincham: I meant where are you sitting. This wasn't an existential question.
2006-04-06, 11:22 PM #2
That is pretty interesting. The National Geographic site has a PDF of the Gospel in English and in whatever language it was written in
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
2006-04-07, 1:55 AM #3
it's a fascinating thing to look at and read, but it seems a bit fishy. :o
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2006-04-07, 3:44 AM #4
Apparently it claims Judas was a good guy after all. I bet it was written by his mom.

Also, what makes you think the new york times is a 'legit' news source?
Wikissassi sucks.
2006-04-07, 3:56 AM #5
Is it just me or does it have a different version of the creation story as well?
2006-04-07, 4:25 AM #6
Interesting how it says Judas was actually Jesus's favorite disciple.

It's hard to believe but I suppose it's a possibility.
"Oh my god. That just made me want to start cutting" - Aglar
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2006-04-07, 4:27 AM #7
Quite interesting.

Since I respect your wish to not turn this thread into a religious flamewar, I will only say:

Interesting indeed. :)
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2006-04-07, 5:31 AM #8
*INSERT FLAMEWAR COMMENT HERE*

>.>
2006-04-07, 5:33 AM #9
I also heard that they found an entire lost testiment that includes the fact that God doesn't exsist, and that there is only Nailface.
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2006-04-07, 5:53 AM #10
Testiment? The love child of testicles and the Bible.
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2006-04-07, 5:58 AM #11
NAILFACE MELTS JEPMAN WHILST SLEEPING :p
2006-04-07, 6:06 AM #12
Oh noes! NAILFACED :(
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2006-04-07, 6:13 AM #13
Originally posted by Isuwen:
Also, what makes you think the new york times is a 'legit' news source?


haha since it cited National Geographic. And by legit I meant it wasn't some random guy with a website being stupid. Loose definition, I know
Fincham: Where are you going?
Me: I have no idea
Fincham: I meant where are you sitting. This wasn't an existential question.
2006-04-07, 6:17 AM #14
THIS IS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT!!! :eek:
Code:
if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}
2006-04-07, 7:26 AM #15
Judas? Ha! Even on the slight chance that that is real, Judas?
2006-04-07, 7:43 AM #16
Quote:
They said, "Master, you are [...] the son of our god."


I bet the ellipses is where they said "a close resemblance to".

According to Judas, Jesus was an *******.
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2006-04-07, 8:08 AM #17
Originally posted by Anovis:
*INSERT FLAMEWAR COMMENT HERE*

>.>


*FACT-BASED RESPONSE*

Just serves as more research material for me to randomly read. This will bring my total number of read religious documents to... 1.
error; function{getsig} returns 'null'
2006-04-07, 11:00 AM #18
Interesting. I'd like to read it.
D E A T H
2006-04-07, 11:09 AM #19
Ya'll know a bunch of guys wrote religious documents at the time. Most of them were lousy. This really isn't anything new. Most of the ones written by the apostles were canonized into the Bible the council of nicea. A reasonable portion of the New Testament was written to deal with stuff like this, which probably wasn't written by Judas. It may have been written in the Middle Ages for all we know.


EDIT: It looks like it's just written about Judas, not by Judas.
2006-04-07, 11:13 AM #20
Quote:
In this version, Jesus asked Judas, as a close friend, to sell him out to the authorities, telling Judas he will "exceed" the other disciples by doing so.


Wow.. evidence that jesus was a just really kind of a nutcase. This is all starting to make a lot more sense now.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-04-07, 11:31 AM #21
I have not had a chance to read the article yet. (I'm at school) but:

Did any of you ever listen to "Adventures in Oddesy," the raido play? more specificly the three part episode entitled: "The search for Whit." Basicly it is about them finding a new "gospel" writen by: you guessed it Judas. Of course it turned out to be a 1st. Centurary hoax. but I think that play was written like 7-10 years ago.

hmmm... Interesting

I'll need to read the article when I get home.
“Without education we are in a horrible and deadly danger of taking educated people seriously.” -G.K. Chesterton
2006-04-07, 11:34 AM #22
Quote:
Jesus said, “[Come], that I may teach you about [secrets] no person [has] ever seen. For
there exists a great and boundless realm, whose extent no generation of angels has seen,
[in which] there is [a] great invisible [Spirit],
which no eye of an angel has ever seen,
no thought of the heart has ever comprehended,
and it was never called by any name.
“And a luminous cloud appeared there. He said, ‘Let an angel come into being as my
attendant.’
“A great angel, the enlightened divine Self-Generated, emerged from the cloud.
Because of him, four other angels came into being from another cloud, and they became
attendants for the angelic Self-Generated. The Self-Generated said, [48] ‘Let […] come
into being […],’ and it came into being […]. And he [created] the first luminary to reign
over him. He said, ‘Let angels come into being to serve [him],’ and myriads without
number came into being. He said, ‘[Let] an enlightened aeon come into being,’ and he
came into being. He created the second luminary [to] reign over him, together with
myriads of angels without number, to offer service. That is how he created the rest of the
enlightened aeons. He made them reign over them, and he created for them myriads of
angels without number, to assist them.


O_o

From the text itself.

I'm a little confused, but is that attempting to explain how god came to be?


Edit: Okay, this is getting weird. Reading down a little further...

Quote:
“The twelve aeons of the twelve luminaries constitute their father, with six heavens for
each aeon, so that there are seventy-two heavens for the seventy-two luminaries, and for
each [50] [of them five] firmaments, [for a total of] three hundred sixty [firmaments …].
They were given authority and a [great] host of angels [without number], for glory and
adoration, [and after that also] virgin spirits, for glory and [adoration] of all the aeons and
the heavens and their firmaments.


O_o

Oh and um... polytheism anyone?
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-04-07, 11:39 AM #23
Judas is rising! *headbang*
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"N-No it's not!"

"Oh."
2006-04-07, 11:42 AM #24
Like said by the National Geographic guys or whatever, this isn't really anything to be considered canonized (for those of you who didn't read it, it's not a first-person account from Judas, as it was likely written in 3rd century AD), but it DOES shed a lot of insight into the history of early Christianity, which we don't know much about.

With that aside, this really makes me think of Jesus Christ Superstar. Like, a lot.
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2006-04-07, 11:46 AM #25
Quote:
“The twelve rulers spoke with the twelve angels: ‘Let each of you [52] […] and let them
[…] generation [—one line lost—] angels’:
The first is [S]eth, who is called Christ.
The [second] is Harmathoth, who is […].
The [third] is Galila.
The fourth is Yobel.
The fifth [is] Adonaios.
These are the five who ruled over the underworld, and first of all over chaos.


:confused:
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-04-07, 11:50 AM #26
Originally posted by Gebohq:
Like said by the National Geographic guys or whatever, this isn't really anything to be considered canonized (for those of you who didn't read it, it's not a first-person account from Judas, as it was likely written in 3rd century AD), but it DOES shed a lot of insight into the history of early Christianity, which we don't know much about.


It wasn't written in the third century A.D (this manuscript was, but the original wasn't). It is a copy, written in Coptic, of the original Greek.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-04-07, 11:51 AM #27
I've read about half of it. It's pretty amazing.

I think it's real actually. It's part of a Codex that also includes a letter of Peter to Philip. The actual document has been declared authentic, although that doesn't say anything about the motives of the writer.

However, the document confirms several things about Judas that other gospels, such as Luke's and Matthew's, only seemed to suggest.

I am of the opinion that this is one of the many many passages that has been edited out of the bible for whatever political reasons.

Early Christianity was pretty crazy.

Check out what Judas says to Jesus here, haha:

Quote:
Judas said to him, "I know who you are and where you have come from. You are from the immortal realm of Barbelo. And I am not worthy to utter the name of the one who has sent you."


Pretty groovy! :cool:
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2006-04-07, 11:54 AM #28
Originally posted by Freelancer:
It wasn't written in the third century A.D (this manuscript was, but the original wasn't). It is a copy, written in Coptic, of the original Greek.


Right, my bad, but it's still unlikely to have been written by Judas himself, if I remembered reading the article right (too lazy to look back). Whatever the case, though, it's def. fascinating.

My mind is clearer now. At last, all too well, I can see where we all soon will be...
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2006-04-07, 11:54 AM #29
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
It may have been written in the Middle Ages for all we know.


No, they have been able to date it quite accurately. The material and the ink used is typical of that time period:

Quote:
The 26-page Judas text is said to be a copy in Coptic, made around A. D. 300, of the original Gospel of Judas, written in Greek the century before. (....) The codex has been authenticated as a genuine work of ancient Christian apocryphal literature," Mr. Garcia said, citing extensive tests of radiocarbon dating, ink analysis and multispectral imaging and studies of the script and linguistic style. The ink, for example, was consistent with ink of that era, and there was no evidence of multiple rewriting.

"This is absolutely typical of ancient Coptic manuscripts," said Stephen Emmel, professor of Coptic studies at the University of Munster in Germany. "I am completely convinced."
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2006-04-07, 12:08 PM #30
If you accept this as doctrine, then you must accept that there are four other entities - for lack of a better term - in equal standing to Jesus.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-04-07, 1:07 PM #31
Originally posted by ORJ_JoS:
No, they have been able to date it quite accurately. The material and the ink used is typical of that time period:


Yeah, but anyone one who was competent could use them. There were plenty of relic fakers back then who would probably know how to do that. Still, it does sound like it was written by some one earlier. An Alpha version of Mormonism anyone? :p
2006-04-07, 1:25 PM #32
didnt one of these articles mention that the gospel was believed to be written by the Gnostics?
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
2006-04-07, 1:42 PM #33
Silly gnostics.
"The only crime I'm guilty of is love [of china]"
- Ruthven
me clan me mod
2006-04-07, 2:12 PM #34
I'd heard the story before, the gospel is news though. I wonder if it's gnostic or possibly something that could be considered canon eventually.
Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....
2006-04-07, 2:16 PM #35
I've actually been waiting for months for them to finish the first few translations when I first heard about it.
2006-04-07, 2:16 PM #36
I think there's too much missing to understand what it's saying for the most part.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-04-07, 2:17 PM #37
Originally posted by Freelancer:
I think there's too much missing to understand what it's saying for the most part.


I actually agree...it's kinda hard to tell what they mean from half decomposed nearly illegeable scrolls. However, some parts can be done.
2006-04-07, 2:19 PM #38
It is now clear that I am the 13th apostle. Rufus was just a cover-up.
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2006-04-07, 2:33 PM #39
Originally posted by MBeggar:
didnt one of these articles mention that the gospel was believed to be written by the Gnostics?



It doesn't take an article to see that.
2006-04-07, 2:56 PM #40
The only gospels believed to have actually been written by the apostle credited with them are St Peter's letters, and even they aren't the originals.

I stand by the idea that his mom wrote it to make Judas look better, just like how Clark's mom got so upset because Lewis was always listed first.
Wikissassi sucks.
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