I heard one explanation that said that dinosaurs were alive during the Noah's Ark thing and they all drowned in the flood.



Even the sea-dwelling-prehistoric creatures.

We had some Christian fundamentalist guy come talk to us at school once and he claimed that not only were all the fossils from the flood but that they are layered such that the smaller slower creatures are towards the bottom and the larger and therefore faster creatures at the top as the slower creatures were swept away and drowned first.
The poor guy got pretty much blasted with logic by the rest of my year group after he came up with that one.

Silly him.

[QUOTE=The Mega-ZZTer] Not only that, but everythign in the bang was arranged in a specific way so that our solar system would form, earth would form, life would emerge, and humans would evolve.[/QUOTE]

What would you say if science said that this is impossible, that you can't determine which direction a system will evolve in, even if you have perfect knowledge of all the initial conditions?

I always thought tiw ould be cool if you could do the same for the past. Like if you had the technology to observe the tiny echo each one of our actions impress upon the universe.

That would mean there is a random variable, and I don't think science can possibly prove that any random variables exist. Even if something appears random, there may be an unknown cause behind it.

um... I guess a lot of you guys forgot about the best place to look when you have pesky creationists running amuck...

[url]www.talkorigins.org[/url]

Here's a link to what you *may* need: http://www.talkorigins.org/indexcc/list.html#CH

If 6 24 hour periods were what really happened and poof the Earth was here, then why has God gone to the trouble of putting so much evidence in favor of evolution/Earth creation over billions of years just to make us think otherwise? Is faith supposed to mean blindly ignoring the evidence?

Also, why do the "days" have to be 24 hour periods? Why couldn't they metaphorically represent 6 eons of the Earth's development. Couldn't evolution have taken place, but with a guiding hand to push us towards God's image? Why do evolution and creation have to be mutually exclusive?

If he's any good at all he'll easilly be able to answer any questions you've put forth. Heck I know what he'd say to most of them.

I saw the guy today and he didn't talk too much about evolution, other than saying it was a lot of made up stories, and not science.

And then he did a ton of fun/cool stuff that made me like him. We did experiments with fire and chemicals, and even exploded a dry-ice bomb.

And yeah, it's a private school, so people like this are allowed to come and teach us whatever they want.

I don't know where he went to school, but he was a -very- intelligent man. So... yeah.

For the anti creationist:

Why is it that every one thinks religion ends with the Catholic church or some of the other major religion. Why is it that when some religions are on trial, they're beliefs are not taken into account and instead are replaced with other religious beliefs which would not go with science or common reasoning. Answer these questions.

My point is, not every one believes what the Catholic church says... many so called catholics have confessed this to me, but instead they just follow it and accept it becuase they were brought up with it.
If God is soo powerful and wise as to make a great plan and scheme as sofisticated and impossible as evolution, it would make no sense to do it, because it would be easier to do things quicker. Say 6000 years of building life, humans being the last to be built, but before that eons of time went by when the earth was nothing more than bare rock or a mustafar.

If he's fat:
"Isn't gluttony a sin?"

In general:
"This is well and all, but I'm sort of hesitant about a God that speaks to his 'greatest creation' through hearsay, ancient books, and rich or powerful white men. What do you have to say about the books of the bible that were passed on by hearsay, and ruled out bit rich and powerful white people? Do you have a problem with the censorship that took place with the bible throughout the many catholic rules?"

And one that I've yet to have answered:
"No one living today has gotten everything right in life. I'm sure you can agree that neither of us is perfect, right? Then why are you so definite about this argument? Can't someone believe in chickens flying out of a black hole to place the earth, as long as you accept God into your heart? And wait a second, why do I have to accept YOUR vision of God into my heart? Can't I see God as a form of conscience, and that by following it, I am a good person?"

Oh look, SF_Gold is here. I predict a 10-pager.

To answer your question, Gold: well okay, I'd like to answer your question but I can't figure out what you are asking. Are you saying that anti-creationists make up religious beliefs to disagree with?

"Quantum mechanics is nondeterministic, meaning that it generally does not predict the outcome of any measurement with certainty. Instead, it merely tells us what the probabilities of the outcomes are." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hidden_variables)

Yes, it's possible that there are hidden factors causing the quantum effects we see today, but most physicists tend to disagree. It's still an open question, but on some level, that's true of all scientific theory.

What I'm trying to say is, why is that always people are taking catholic beliefs into account and not others... (I am generalizing, but so far I've seen catholic beliefs posted here).

That's interesting since 50% of us are protestant. <_< >_>

I'm speaking about the other 50%

Weak sauce.

Catholic? Protestant? Bah. I'm an Animist.

...

So anyway, here's my question. Why are we always wasting so much of our time arguing about this McGuffin Device - how life was created - when we could be arguing about more important things? For instance, what we should be doing in response to our numerous sucessive attempts to UNcreate life. I thought the church was all about helping people, and the more vocal groups representing the church seem to be just running circles around logical brush-fires under the pretext of helping people. (Considering that helping them understand someone else's viewpoint does them any good.)

When you take a step back and really look at things, it's remarkable how similar all of Christianity really is.

The other 50% is a mixture of Catholics, non-denominationals, Jews, atheists, agnostics and a one or two others from the other plethora of beliefs out there.

It's diffcult to make much sense of your question Gold. But the bit about how making the Earth in 6 days is "more efficient" because it's quicker doesn't make much sense. Even as an atheist I can see that to an omnipotent, all knowing, ageless God, millions of years could be absolutely nothing to Him/Her/It, so evolution wouldn't consist of God sitting around bored.

Well... I won't argue that he didn't take millions of years to make earth and all the planets, stars, universes, etc. But I will argue that all life on earth was created in 7000 or 49000 years, if we take the bible accounting. This would make sense. If god exists, then I'm sure he would have left a manual for us to follow his word, as most bible have generally the same context we can't say that this bible is this and that one this, we can only say which is more accurate to the literal exact translation of the original scriptures, and taking into account that what a word ment 2000 or more years ago, does not necesarily mean exactly the same today. Take for instance English, a couple centries ago the word "let" mean't exactly the OPPOSITE as to what it means today.

Uh, explain? How about some sources?

Then why does all the physical evidence suggest otherwise, Gold? And why must we take the Christian bible as the book of God?

Right. Of course I'm using the old meaning of "right" which is "um...no." Its definition has changed a tad...

I don't think this argument is very valid. It would be "easier" for God not to make us at all then, wouldn't it? Some people are sophisticated, and some people are impossible. Point is: our judgment and logic doesn't work when talking about all things spirtual.

You guys should read Memnoch the Devil by Anne Rice,

The fallen angel memnoch tells us that the Big Bang, the formation of starts and planets, and the event of the 1st living cell, was all a grand design by God.

Being a powerful entity of energy residing in what seems to be another realm of existance, he wanted to re create himself in the flesh.

Humans of today have almost reached this point.

Its an incredible book, and my own beliefs were somewhat vindicated by the story.

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

Ah.. that is because somethings are not being considered there:
1.- God loves life, peace and happiness, but he also obeys the universal laws that he made.
2.- God made us to fill his earth, to be happy and take care of it. And if the Bible is correct, we are currently under Satan's order, and none of this is being done, quite the reverse actually.
3.- "Point is: our judgment and logic doesn't work when talking about all things spirtual" That is why we must see things through God's point of view, and reason on it for long periods of time, come to many conclusions and pick the most adequate and fitting. A Universal point of view knows everything, because it sees all, and has for eons of time. No man has experienced this, that is why we can only see glimpses of it.

I don't know how people come to the conclusion that God does not exist... because life, even as imperfect as it is now, is a miracle.

Humans of today are many times unhealthier, unmoral, weaker and more imperfect than 200 years ago.

Hooah.

In other words... we suck.

What?

The average lifespan of people today are drastically longer than those from long ago. People are living longer due to more healthier lives.

And how are people becoming more "unmoral"? Do you turn on the news and say to yourself, "Gee, all these crimes reported. People must be getting unmoral!"

And what is being "imperfect." That is such a laughable term.

But we live longer. Right.

Imperfect: More genetic disorders and a wider variety of sickness
Lifespan: People died because of wars, plagues and other things... not because of health problems.
Unmoral:The crime factor has gone up drasticaly in the last 50 years... people seem to stop caring about the common good anymore... nations don't care what happens as long as they are not involved or endagered, hence president Bush seems to care.

Guys I think he's just speaking for himself here. He's fallen a long way from his early 19th-century great-great-great grandfather "El Bandito del Frito", infamous Mexican gang leader and Kung Fu master. Feared far and wide across the lands.

OMG that actually did make me laught... funny how you all can believe that I'm actually in Mexico...

Plagues are health problems.

Oh God, he moved...

Is he near me?

P.S. Plagues are health problems. Also, crime has gone up due to video games and rock and roll. I AM THE PROBLEM.

Now you're lying in attempt to save yourself embaressement. Do you want me to post the IM logs of your conversation with me where you emo'ed out your personal life about how you have no friends because all the Mexicans at your school hate you because you're American?

Not only are you a complete fool, but you're dishonest.

He wasn't claiming to not live in Mexico. The gist of it was "you guys are so distrustful of me, it's a wonder you even believe that I live in Mexico."

Because, see, living in Mexico is unusual for someone on this forum, and people are skeptical about unusual things. Pay attention Emon.