And I can't access files on my own hard drive!!! BUT THE ERROR DIALOGS ARE PRETTY!!!

So yeah, share your experiences with the beta.

[Edit: Ahaa, figured out how to fix it, have to take ownership if my drive and THEN add myself with full control priviledges. I keep forgetting I'm only a Limited User in Vista.]

How do I get my hands on this bad boy?

click on the link mistar gris

http://download.windowsvista.com/preview/beta2/en/x86/download.htm

Wait... I *need* a DVD burner?

its 3.2 gigs m'boy

and like 10 installed


find a friend with an external burner?

or order it for $6....

I'm still debating whether to try it or not...

It runs slow as frick running in Virtual PC. I set it to use 1 of my 2 Gigs of ram and with my hardware, I'd think it would run faster.

Looks cool so far, but I'd like to test it in full speed, lol.

All of you people downloading it are preventing the people who actually need it from getting it.

Like me

Jon, it's a public beta. Anyone can get it.

Anyways, either I'm really used to XP / 2000, or going about things in Vista is just plain retarded. It's like they are trying to group things into these really large general hierarchies (like the control panel, for example) to make it somehow "easier" for non-computer people. that's really the best way I can describe it.

You silly person, why Jon`C is the only person who needs the beta!

You still have to sign up for a CD key.
I'm not downloading the beta. I don't need it. If I did, I would order the DVD.
But you keep on raging, or whatever it is you do.

That's the way XP has always felt to me before I reconfigure and turn off a crap load of stuff.

Touchy-feely-"lemme hold your hand so you don't mess up"-user friendly.

I'm debating if I wanna spend time downloading it and then tossing another harddrive in my computer to install it on.

Is it worth it at all? Even just to fiddle with?

Does anyone else get immense lag with Aero on? (With the blurred window edges and stuff like that)

On mine, dwm.exe goes freakin crazy on CPU usage for no discernable reason.

They put all the stuff in some same/different places. Makes it either easier or harder to find the stuff you are looking for. The security popups about every single thing you do on the computer are really annoying, so make sure the first thing you do is disable that.

That would be done via Users > Security.

It is worth it to fiddle with, and I almost started to get used to it. I also seemed to get used to the part of Vista that made it so half my programs didn't work and I had to go out of my way to get to everything else.

Also, about the "let me hold you hand part" there is exactly that feature in Vista. You can either do operations step by step, or have the computer do it for you, highlight everything, and tell you what its doing next.

Got it sometime yesterday, I'll probably try it someday... or not. Mostly due to not having spare comps / HD's and I don't want to mess this comp up...

I've noticed that too. For each new generation of windows, the system requirements go up while the intelligence requirements go down.

Oh no! They made it user friendly!!!!!

WORLDS ENDING OMG

But the problem is that it is in all reality becoming too user-friendly, to the point where it's more annoying and even harder to get things done than before.

If you actually have a task you want done is hard as heck to find it. You have to guess what retarded series of entries it's under instead of just clicking that icon in the control panel. It's only friendly to the people who never bother to learn how to take care of their computer and still won't even with retarded interfaces.

If I ever need to find out how to do something in Windows XP, I *gasp* Google it. It may be buried underneath a few menus or command lines, but it's not that hard to be found.

That's because your educated on all things technical. The average schmuck doesn't want to Google on how to make X work. They want to click a shiny button that will fix the problem, serve up coffee, and bring them a s/o (if not equipped). You have to realize you're dealing with the grossly lazy and impatient American public.

Edit: If MS says "**** you, learn how to run a damn computer stop making us do the work" sure that will bring delight to us as it would force the public to actually learn but at the same time, MS profit margins will shrink. Of course that's every neck-bearded geek's dream.

I'm not saying the user-friendly interface is bad. I'm responding to people who are complaining about the UI interfering with their ability to use their computer.

How can you say user-friendly if you sometimes have to google for things? I can't understand that
More like unintuitive or crap help documents, either way not user-friendly

I don't understand why people are this lazy. It probably takes less time to google the error using a generic "such and such isn't working" then to call tech support, describe your problem, and have them go through the general stuff like restarting your computer, They would probably even get better help from people like us in a forum.

People these days.

It wouldn't be so bad if it was made easier to turn all the stupid buried menus and permission verifications off.

If Vista wants to keep the "Enter your password everytime you want to make a change" it needs to do it like Linux. You get your own user folder where you get to run wild, and have to su to do any system changes. Or, even better, sudo, just so you don't have to remember to logout of Administrator mode.

Umm, no.

Anyone who "needs" to get it had the opportunity for a couple weeks earlier when it was released closed-door to the MSDN community.

It's a public beta for a reason, Jon.

My feelings precisely.

Really, it can't be THAT difficult to include a stupid little checkbox in the installation for experience level.

Inexperienced, you get all the fun buried menus and dumbed down user-friendly crap.
Semi-Experienced, you get half of that.
Experienced, you don't get ANY of it and the system looks and runs the way virtually everyone's computer here probably looks and runs.

Obviously there would still be the ability to turn on and off features at any experience level, thus letting a user customize the interface to their tastes and (hopefully) grow out of whatever experience level they're in and up to the next one.

None of that can be THAT hard to implement... Right? I mean seriously, all it'd be is three different setup profiles.

So you have to burn an installer so that you can work in an uncomfortable environment and fight to get your programs to run?


Sounds like they went the Linux route.

Beyond "improved" UI, is there any reason to try Vista? I mean, I've set Windows XP to use windows classic mode, because it reduces clutter on screen...

Actually, the new "This program has performed an illegal operation" dialog in Vista will connect to the internet to see if there's a solution to your problem for you.

Of course right now it never finds anything, but it still has potential.

After using Vista for a bit longer I have some qualms still:

- Games don't work right, not sure if it's drivers or DirectX, or the Source engine.
- Vista's security model is going to cause lots of problems until programs add support for it (so they can elevate themselves when needed). For example, I forgot that non-administrative accounts can't change file associations and I was trying to get Firefox as the default browser and Winamp to set it's file associations for a bit without success. No errors or anything, just didn't work. Finally realized what was happening and ran them as adminstrator and everything worked.
- If you have a second hard drive, expect "Access Denied" errors when accessing My Documents files in 'em, and possibly other files and folders. The solution is to "Take Ownership" through the security tab in properties and then assign yourself permissions. Really, Take Ownership needs to auto-assign permissions or ask you if you want to, as I didn't realize at first I needed to do that.
- Glass didn't work at all for me, even though Vista claimed it was enabled. I need to see if it works with my new vid card, but it might be drivers, even though I tried both MS' and nVidia's drivers. Actually I don't think dwm.exe was running at all, I need to go back and check.
- Java apps use a very weird and non-standard way of applying XP themes (they open the MSSTYLES file directly instead of using API calls. Also they don't properly change themes if you change while the app is running) which is apparantly incompatible with Aero, so Aero is forced off while they run. This is annoying because I need this one app running at all times. Why oh why couldn't Sun have just used the Windows API for theming under Windows?
- One of Microsoft's drivers bluescreened on me the first time I shut down Vista. Windows tried to be helpful next time I ran it and did the automatic solution finder thing, but didn't find anything of course. I haven't seen it bluescreen again.

[QUOTE=The Mega-ZZTer]Actually, the new "This program has performed an illegal operation" dialog in Vista will connect to the internet to see if there's a solution to your problem for you.[/QUOTE]
There better be an off switch for that, because I HATE anything that wants to try and connect to the internet or automatically open my browser for me without asking.

Also, it's security/permissions setup sounds like it's similar to OSX.... It also sounds like far more of a nightmare than OSX.

Hey, maybe you should wait for the final product before passing judgement? All you wankers are just looking for reasons to scream "OMG MICROSOFT SUX USE LINUX." Shut up. God damn.

[QUOTE=The Mega-ZZTer]Actually, the new "This program has performed an illegal operation" dialog in Vista will connect to the internet to see if there's a solution to your problem for you.

Of course right now it never finds anything, but it still has potential.

After using Vista for a bit longer I have some qualms still:

- Games don't work right, not sure if it's drivers or DirectX, or the Source engine.
- Vista's security model is going to cause lots of problems until programs add support for it (so they can elevate themselves when needed). For example, I forgot that non-administrative accounts can't change file associations and I was trying to get Firefox as the default browser and Winamp to set it's file associations for a bit without success. No errors or anything, just didn't work. Finally realized what was happening and ran them as adminstrator and everything worked.
- If you have a second hard drive, expect "Access Denied" errors when accessing My Documents files in 'em, and possibly other files and folders. The solution is to "Take Ownership" through the security tab in properties and then assign yourself permissions. Really, Take Ownership needs to auto-assign permissions or ask you if you want to, as I didn't realize at first I needed to do that.
- Glass didn't work at all for me, even though Vista claimed it was enabled. I need to see if it works with my new vid card, but it might be drivers, even though I tried both MS' and nVidia's drivers. Actually I don't think dwm.exe was running at all, I need to go back and check.
- Java apps use a very weird and non-standard way of applying XP themes (they open the MSSTYLES file directly instead of using API calls. Also they don't properly change themes if you change while the app is running) which is apparantly incompatible with Aero, so Aero is forced off while they run. This is annoying because I need this one app running at all times. Why oh why couldn't Sun have just used the Windows API for theming under Windows?
- One of Microsoft's drivers bluescreened on me the first time I shut down Vista. Windows tried to be helpful next time I ran it and did the automatic solution finder thing, but didn't find anything of course. I haven't seen it bluescreen again.[/QUOTE]


Did you forget that it's a beta?

Whats a Vista?

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

Woah, calm down. All I said is that I like the way Linux handles Administrator permissions, and that I wish Windows would do it the same way. I never said anything about Vista sucking in general, nor did anybody else in this thread.

MS OSs have this annoying way of trying to be helpful, but offering no useful information, ever. It just gets in the way and bothers you. And it gets worse with every OS. In ten years, every time something goes wrong we'll have to spend ten minutes navigating out of some humongous, but 100% useless database of information, that won't give you back your PC until it thinks you've resolved your problem.

It's like George Bush pandering to democrats. Good intentions, but horribly inept and ultimately doomed to failure.

I wasn't talking about you.

It's like every time there's even a SUSPICION of something annoying or imperfect with Vista, people go screaming about it.

Oh, alright then. Sorry to implicate that you were. Carry on.

My take on Vista. Note: This is not a "OMG M$ Windoze sucks use Linux n00b" rant. It's just my evaluation thus far.

• I feel like I'm running a bloody Mac with all the pretty, swishy effects that's gobbling 43% of available memory (1 GB).
• I would like my documents to point to <2nd drive>:\The Documents instead of C:\Users\Brandon\Documents. In XP all I had to do was point The "My Documents" to wherever and lo! I was finished. Don' work like that in Vista. Anybody figure that out?
• Upon getting wireless device setup, I couldn't connect to wireless right away because my passphrase has to be 5 OR 13 alnums or 10 OR 26 hexadecimals. No not 5 to 13 alphanums 5 OR 13 I eventually got it working by setting up a profile.
• Every single action regarding even the slightest setting change is questioned. I'm using no hyperbole here. Every. Single. Action. "We need your permission to X" I'm sure I can turn this off...somehow.
• In line with the above bullet, security settings in IE are too high initially. The CSS sheet was blocked from my school's webmail login. CSUSM is trying to phish me!!
• While I'm not quick to jump on Vista for this little flaw as it is a beta. It found my vid. card driver but not the drivers for wifi card and Audigy. I found that rather...odd.
• I will say that some of the nice shiny effects are well nice. I can mix colors in with the glass theme. I like how outright in "Computer" the size of my disks are displayed with free space listed. It's not all that harder to Alt+Enter the drive but I just think this is :cool:.

Y'know I bet some sort of social commentary can be said about the way Vista was designed. Your e-hand is being firmly grasped as you sojourn amongst the avenues and boulevards of the internet. In some ways I think this OS was written for children, but sadly it was not. It was written with the following people in mind: baby boomers, ditzes, and The College of Education @ CSUSM.