I saw the end of the car chas eon TV this morning the criminal got out of the car, started running, but then about 100 yards down the alley, hge stopped and turned around with his hands up facing the lead officer. A second officer then ran in, tackled the criminal, then a third officer came in an began to be the crap out of the criminal with a billy club.

now i wasnt there, but i cannot really belive that the police, knowing they were on 3+ newscameras, would use excessive force. so far i am more suspicious that the criminal did not actually peacefully turn around, the camera was far away. what do y'all think.

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DUU BistX0rz ein N00b!

I think your looking too far into it.

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Dear lady, can you hear the wind blow, and did you know
Your stairway lies on the whispering wind.
:wq

It depends on what they guy did before the chase.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

he ran after sealing a car for about a half hour, then ran on foot for about a minute

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DUU BistX0rz ein N00b!

Theres no real need to beat the **** out of someone like that, its just down to individual cops being *******s.

Police brutality is frustrating as hell because the *******s can get away with it so easily.

I mean, if the guy stopped and didn't resist after being ran down on foot, there is no need whatsoever to even lay a finger on him other than to put the cuffs on and ge thim in the car.

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Drugs & Stupidity, Tons of it.

From the footage it is not possible to tell whether the criminal was resisting or not. I'm discouraged by what I saw but I'm not jumping to conclusions.

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Have you forgotten ...

I thought that maybe the cops were frusterate, but this in no way would give them the rights to Beat someone.

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Kill Your Idols!

No it doesn't.

I think they should beat you next.



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<Outlaw_Torn> you mean your related to that damned sasquatch, Mech?
<MechWarrior> Lets just say the part of the family tree that does fork has bossy the goat in it.

<ubuu> does hitler have a last name?

Way you describe it, it sounds like unneccacary force. But then, I haven't seen it.

[Edit] Stupid question.

[This message has been edited by Joseph T (edited June 24, 2004).]

I watched it live as well. It's really not AS bad as it sounds in here. What happened was about 6 cops were literally on top of the guy holding him down, and the one cop beside his head hit him about 6-7 times with something. I'm not sure if it was a billy club or his flashlight.

As far as we know though, the guy could've been trying to bite or talk major trash which just got the guy infuriated.

I don't blame the cops...the guy tries to steal a car and run with six cops right behind him and a chopper following him. Then he tries to run on foot! He really does need to be beat over the head, knock some sense into him! He's probably dead from the neck up anyways and didn't even feel it.

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"We came, we saw, we conquered, we...woke up!"

The footage I saw showed the guy surrendering. At the point of his surrender, there is no need for force to apprehend the suspect. If there is no force, and force is applied, it's unnecessary and therefore wrong.

And no, I don't think the guy was talking trash- the cop got to him and immediately started hitting. Not even a five second gap.

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Frightening the very small and very old since 1952.

As far as I remember they obviously must've had to take some extra effort in keeping him down. Why else would six cops have to be on one guy for 5 minutes?

We don't know what happened though so you can't say he wasn't possibly doing something he could've possibly been doing nothing as well but something must've happened.

If the camera had been right there on the ground that'd be one thing, but angles can be misleading.

Maybe he was even trying to reach to one of the cops's belts, or it looked like that to one of them and they said he was reaching for a gun.

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"We came, we saw, we conquered, we...woke up!"

All I saw was a man surrendering and cops beating him senselessly. And this is from someone who plays FPS avidly, and catches the little details like that.

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There is no signature

I wonder if L.A. will now burn down to the ground like in 1992 because of this.

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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit, sed diam nonummy nibh euismod tincidunt ut laoreet dolore magna aliquam erat volutpat.

eh, we havent had a riot 1n 14 years, we're probably due.

I'm getting me a new DVD player.

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The University of North Carolina has finally found a network server that, although missing for four years, hasn't missed a packet in all that time. Try as they might, university administrators couldn't find the server. Working with Novell Inc., IT workers tracked it down by meticulously following cable until they literally ran into a wall. The server had been mistakenly sealed behind drywall by maintenance workers.

[This message has been edited by Pagewizard_YKS (edited June 24, 2004).]

Screw that, 50 inch projecter HDTV. Mmmmm

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There is no signature

I fail to see the connection between FPS and noticing details.

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Snail racing: (500 posts per line)

--------@%

The Massassi JO/JA Single Player contest info

Oh no a poor car stealin criminal got beaten by the cops after endangerin many innocent lives by runnin from the cops!

Hands across ****in america.

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"If there's one thing I've learned it's this - you just can't shake hands with a fist" - David Allen Coe

Criminals are people too.

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"If there's one thing I've learned it's this - you just can't shake hands with a fist" - David Allen Coe

So? What that mean? We act nice and polite to them? Hell no. I say we treat them like the ravenous dogs they are. I would love to implement a gulag system.

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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit, sed diam nonummy nibh euismod tincidunt ut laoreet dolore magna aliquam erat volutpat.

Listen, we shouldn't treat them as NICELY as we do, but we should at least follow the laws. Whether or not we /want/ to treat them kindly, the laws say we must, so we must. It sucks don't it?

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There is no signature

No, it doesn't.

Just because the guy was arrested, it does not mean that he is guilty.
How would you like to be persecuted violently for something you never did?

It is not up to policemen (or you, for that matter) to dish out 'punishment'. That is up to the courts, to find out whether the individual is innocent or guilty, and if so to set the appropriate sentence for the appropriate crime.

But even as a criminal, they do still have rights (with the exception of those held at Guantanamo. they don't exist. or something). Yes, they lose some rights, such as they can't vote for an indefinite period, but they are still protected by the UN Declaration of Human Rights (of which the US do violate several, not including Guantanamo).

Uh...they watched him do a number of laws. So the question of his guilt isn't at hand...it's -how- guilty is he.

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There is no signature

I'm sure you would change your mind when you're out there, chasing down a criminal. Adrenaline rush, then guy might have a gun, you can't take that chance. Granted, they don't have to beat him to a pulp, but they need to take him to the ground and search him. Just going up to him and asking politely to turn around so you can put him in cuffs just isn't going to work...

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"Bantha's are filthy animals.......I don't eat filthy animals."

"Laugh it up Fuzzball!"
-Han Solo

I just had a thought, but it doesn't pertain specifically to this instance. Okay, someone does some felony and the police get called on him. After awhile in a car chase that puts not only innocent bystanders at risk, but the guy has several police officers and a helicopter following just him, he gets out and start running away on foot. After a few minutes he realizes he is screwed no matter what he does. He can't escape and the cops are going to catch him soon and beat him senseless, because for all they know he could have a weapon or could have already used one. So what does he do? Turn around and give up when he gets cornered. And suddenly he gets a free pass from an *** whooping? After putting so many people in danger and wasting not only the time of the police officers but also the resources of the city and state, he can't be hurt as long as he surrenders just before the police get him anyway? Sounds kind of like when someone throws insult after insult at some guy and just when the guy is about to punch him in the face the person who did the insulting yells "I'm just kidding!".

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The sooner you realize I'm right the better off you will be.

The guy tried to steal a car...maybe he got some sense smacked into him.

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"Ever since I was a boy, I have always kept your laws, now I want to follow you and join you in your noble cause. Jesus turned to him and said, 'Sell all you have give to the poor.' Rich young ruler hung his head, not to follow, walked instead." - Vanishing Lesson

Uh...you mean we feed them?

You know how fast a "gulag system" would go wrong, right?

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"Look at me! I'm Tracer! BLAHBLAHBLAH!"

-MBeggar

Ideally, he shouldn't be beaten. If the question is whether it was right or wrong to attack him, then it was wrong, but it is slightly justifiable logically, and it is the "safer" way to go, but it is DEFINITLY NOT RIGHT.

Ideally, crime shouldn't happen either.

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The sooner you realize I'm right the better off you will be.

But if the guy knows that he's going to get beaten up by the police, surely that is more incentive to keep running and keep endagering people around him?
If he knows that if he surrenders he will be treated peacefully it is much more likely that he will surrender when he knows that he can't escape.
If he surrenders, then there is no reason for the police to use any more force than necessary on him. If the police feel compelled to beat him up then they shouldn't be policemen.
The purpose of the police is to detain the individual, it is not their job to 'punish' them.

[This message has been edited by Mort-Hog (edited June 25, 2004).]

The guy wasn't running because he was afraid of getting beaten, he was afraid of going to jail. The police don't have the right to punish criminals, true. I don't think that anyone's established that they were punishing him. If the guy was driving wrecklessly then he's already shown lethal force. Officers are allowed to match force, and if at the time he was struggling with them they have evey right to use a club to subdue him. Criminals are people, but so are police, and I think a cop should have the right to go home to his or her family when the shift is over. This said, of course the court should decide his punishment. Maybe he's insane, mentally retarded, or sleep walking for all we know. In the mean time, officers need to protect themselves using whatever means necessary for the situation. It wouldn't be a punishment to be shot by an officer if you're pointing a gun at him, it would be a consequence of your own actions. I you don't want to get chased down and beaten then don't go stealing cars.

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"the mouse is my chisel."
MotS mp:
Little House of Hazards
Surface Disposal Outpost

No, I mean, if beating criminals was commonplace (following on from Kieran's analogy). I wasn't really talking about this guy in particular.
The guy would commit whatever crime he did, and when he sees the police he'd run his pants off because he knew he'd get pummelled, rather than just going 'oh it's a fair cop' and giving himself up. Not all criminals run, you know. Just the ones on "World's Most unoriginal Police Chases 12! Uncut!".


But yes, if the individual has a weapon it's a different matter. Attacking the police should be responded with appropriate force. I assume police are taught martial arts in order to learn how to do this. But the criminal should not be beaten up simply for being a criminal.
Trying to 'frighten' people away from doing crime doesn't work. America has the most extreme form of this, the death penalty, and still has a very high crime rate in comparison to countries that don't have the death penalty. Actually looking at why people commit different crimes is more useful. There is a well documented link between crime and poverty.

If a criminal sends police on a chase for an hour and then surrenders at the last second just to get out of a club to the gut, he should get it anyway. There is a difference between surrendering and being captured. Being cornered in an alley is being captured. A guy suddenly stopping on an interstate and getting out of his getaway car with his hands up is a surrender. The former should get the club to the gut because he didn't choose to surrender of his own will. The latter deserves to be handled better because he did.

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The sooner you realize I'm right the better off you will be.

Why?

The only reason for the club is to stop him escaping, or from resisting the police. I don't see what exactly you mean by "the last second". A chase is only over if the bloke stops or if the bloke is stopped.

If the bloke knows that he'll get a clubbing if he surrenders, why would he surrender at all?


It doesn't matter if he's been chased for 5 minutes or 5 hours. A surrender is a surrender.

[This message has been edited by Mort-Hog (edited June 25, 2004).]

How about you just don't commit crimes in the first place and you won't have to worry about "police brutality?"

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Do you have stairs in your house?

Those who surrender to the police will be fine. Those the police make surrender get a swift kick to the groin. If someone surrenders even though they can keep on running and evading the police, that's fine and nothing happens to them other then cuffs going on them. If they surrender because they have nothing else they can do, that's when the police tackle them.

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The sooner you realize I'm right the better off you will be.

[This message has been edited by Kieran Horn (edited June 25, 2004).]

That makes no sense. You're never 'forced' to surrender.



Yes, you've said this several times now but you still haven't responded with why it would make any sense whatsoever.
The point of the police is to make sure they have nothing else they can do, such as calling in a helicopter, or more police cars to box them in. They have the option of surrendering to the police, or they can keep chasing until they crash and hurt themselves and/or other people. If they do stop the car and get out and get on the ground, what exactly is the point of then booting him in the face? Just put the cuffs on him and take him away and the job is done. Like I said, it doesn't matter how long they've been chased for, if they've stopped resisting arrest then there's no reason to hurt them.

If they know that they'll get a kick in the groin if they surrender, then it would surely make them more likely to cling to the hope that they might escape.