A client of mine needs a programmer to create an application that handles legal forms:



Basically, I need a programmer to do this job for me since this is not a service that I offer myself. Applicants should post their credentials i nthis thread, and my client and I will select the best match. In exchance for passing on this opportunity, I reserve the right to a 15% finders fee. More information available upon request.

15??

9%

I will do this for fifty thousand dollars.

Edit: Hey I know, if you're actually serious about this how about you post a few things about the project that a programmer would actually need to know? Like maybe the target platform, project specifications and the budget? You know, earn your "finder's fee"?

Unless more info given, this sounds like you can find some VB hack and then piecemeal a Word macro.

Haha, yeah, maybe this job can simply done with a template in Excel.

Yeah, I was going to mention that: You would probably be better off with something like a template.

Yeah, what format are the forms now?

My 15% is non-negotiable.

The target platform is win32.

Jon`C: clarify what you mean about project specifications.

I'll get the information about the budget and the type of format the target documents are in from my client and post it ASAP.

My client said that most of the documents can be found at lasuperiorcourt.org.

All right 11%

Nyet.

12%

C'mon...c'mon.

.

Bah.

Man, page, you're a f-in miser.

Not really, it takes a lot of work to set up and coordinate a deal.

Plus, what part of non-negotiable does Gandalf not understand? :p I freely give a rather generous 15% finders fee out of the total profit on website client referrals (instead of the standard 10%) , and even then I've had people demand half just for referring someone.

Person A wants to connect with person B, however, person C gets in between them, and charges a connection fee for some lame reason. Person B doesnt care because they get what they want at the same cost anyway, but person A tends to think that person C is a big waste of time.

So wait. If the job is $100, you get $15?

As Person C, I happen to know and do business with Person A. By getting a cut, I win and Person B wins-- there's still plenty of money left.

I'm expecting that the total job would be much more than that. $100 wouldn't even be worth the trouble.

It was a supposition. I wanted clarification as to who gets what.

In that case, yes, your previous assumption was correct. In this case, I would expect it to be at least 1000. I've already e-mailed my client about it, I will post the budget as soon as he sends it to me.

Can I have some?

Okay. Target machine? System requirements? Target runtime or framework? Is it a plugin for an existing application (i.e. Word or Excel), or is it supposed to be a standalone product? In the latter case is your budget large enough to license libraries for manipulating the document files? Is the output supposed to be to an intermediate file format or is it supposed to output directly to a printer? In the former case, what is the output format? In the latter case, what is the printing situation? Does it use the standard Windows printing subsystem or something special, like CUPS? What are the legal formatting requirements for the form? Are there any specific typefaces required? What is the minimum text size? Does the form include special options (check boxes) or just text? Does the form change often (does the program need to be designed to accomodate sweeping changes to the form without the need to hire another programmer)?

edit: Are they filling out this form online or in their office? If former, what is their server running? If latter, are there any specific layouts or ease-of-use guidelines the client requires? Should the user interface be designed with disabilities in mind? Will a manual and help documentation need to be written or will there be an associate at the office who is able to assist the user? If the form is being printed onto paper, will it be printed onto a pre-printed (government-provided) copy of the form or will it print the form itself as well?

These are all questions you need to know before you even THINK about hiring a freelancer. You can't even tell us how much we'll get paid, but you sure like emphasizing how big a cut you're getting for making a crap post on a message board with about 4 programmers on it.

Alright, 0% then. You don't deserve a "finder's fee" when you make posts like this, let alone a cut that is absolutely ridiculous for freelance work. Especially since this job will probably end up paying less than minimum wage for most people.

Jon`C, I've passed your questions on to my client.

If you don't like my terms, then don't take the job. Why should I hand this opportunity over for free? I'm not a soup kitchen or welfare agency, i'm in this business for profit. I've already had to do some work to set this thing up, this does not amount to me sitting back and doing nothing while someone else does all the actual work.

Making one crap post on a message board does, in fact, amount to you sitting back and doing nothing while someone else does all the actual work.

It has nothing to do with the fact that you're taking a finder's fee. That's standard in the freelance business. It has to do with the percentage and - frankly - the fact that you have absolutely no idea what you're doing whatsoever. You're fleecing those customers and they'd be better off if they never hired you in the first place.

how do you figure that? You make it sound as though I'm asking for a 50% cut.

Alright. Let's put it this way for you.


"I need a webpage for a client. It's about my client's collection of a specific kind of object. You'll get paid but I'll take 15% because I told you that I need a webpage done and this should be enough information to do it."

You will have your information soon enough, I've given you all the info that I have at the moment. Now it's up to my client.

I did it this way because I was expecting to get a list of questions. These deals take time. I'm not a programmer. I don't know the specifics of what the project would require and I couldn't think of the appropriate questions off of the top of my head, so I brought it to the people who WOULD ask the relevant questions. That's why I'm taking people's questions now and am submitting them to my client for clarification instead of waiting to post the job until I have all the facts because we would be waiting a very long time and this thing might never get done.

As it is now, you don't even seem interested in the job, at least your questions will be able to benefit someone else. My conditions have been made known, take it or leave it.

The simple fact is that just about anybody (including a competent web designer) could do this thing in a couple of days, tops. I'd be happy to join your merry band of screwing those customers over, but frankly I'd rather you didn't get 15% for doing dick all work.

Not to mention the fact that I don't trust you whatsoever and would insist upon having direct contact with them to negotiate a fee, because I fully expect that you would take well over your 15% cut (which is already, itself, double the industry standard). Beyond that I would insist the funds be registered with a reputable escrow service and an actual pen-and-paper contract be signed, because neither web designers nor their clients are particularly renowned for being trustworthy or honorable. In essence, what I'm suggesting is that it's not worth anybody's time or energy to deal with you, and frankly you're a pretty lousy web developer if you can't even figure out how to hammer out a .NET app to do this in less than 12 hours.

Good day, sir.

If we had a signed contract (would you be willing to pay for the escrow service?) cementing our temporary partnership I would be more than happy to give you direct contact because frankly, acting as a liaison is a lot of work. As I'm sure everyone here has figured out, if I were to give that information up and post it here, I would be giving up all my leverage for virtually nothing. Since people could then deal with my client directly, there would be no need for me and I would probably not get my share.

Once my client pays me my 15%, I'll turn over direct contact to whoever signs on for this. Since my client will be the one cutting the checks, I wouldn't be able to skim any extra, not that I would anyway.


And plus, calling me untrustworthy and dishonorable is a pretty low blow when you have nothing to base it on.

So we should trust you and give you 15% of pay for this project simply because you found it, without having any idea what it is thanks to your lack of knowledge in the area, and without knowing anything about the client and THEIR trustworthiness?

God, get over yourself, you don't deserve 15% worth of crap. I usually side with you and even I realize this is stupid and low. Go get a job or something if you need money that badly.

It sounds like you're unnecessary. It shouldn't be difficult to figure out who your client is thanks to the [url=lasuperiorcourt.org]website[/url] you posted earlier. Both client and programmer will then be happy to have removed the parasite from the equation.

You know, I'm with all you guys in that this is kind of low, but hey, guess what? That's business. You see, he is the one who holds this information of who wants this job done, and information is worth money. It's sort of like a retail store. You want a product, but you don't want to hunt around all over the place to find it, a company wants to sell a product, but doesn't want to go contact customers individually about buying it. So they give the product to the retail outlet and say "deal with it" and the customer comes to the retail outlet and finds it there, for a small finder's fee. There, job done, no one had to spend time searching for product or buyer. It's not exactly the same, but similar.

You guys didn't have to look for a quick job, and the company didn't have to look for someone to do this for them, they just handed it to pagewizard and said "deal with it, find us someone." Anyway, looks like pagewizard tipped his hand and now everyonec an just contact them directly and get 100% of the money, so....bad move. Oh well.

So basically, I suggest you guys get off your high communist "everyone should just be nice to each other and share" horses and realize that it's a capitalist system and anything with worth is going to cost.

This project sounds like something you could whip up in under an hour in VB. Why all the talk of a middle man and a percent cut for him? I'd prefer to keep the whole $20 that this project is worth. If that.

My client is not lasuperiorcourt.org--You really think I would give it up that easily? My hand is far from tipped.

Anyway, at this point, it looks like no one seriously wants this and you guys are just wasting my time, so the offer is now closed.

You are retarded and you didn't read this thread. He is charging about double the industry standard finder's fee. The point is moot anyway: if he had simply approached the issue like he was hiring a programmer, maybe he would have gotten somewhere. Instead he chose to be a dick about it and advertise how much free profit he's demanding.

We're wasting your time?

Okay. Let me explain this to you again, since you seem rather :downs: about hiring programmers.

• "Plus, what part of non-negotiable does Gandalf not understand? :p I freely give a rather generous 15% finders fee out of the total profit on website client referrals (instead of the standard 10%) , and even then I've had people demand half just for referring someone."
  1.) Programmers are not crappy web designers and an 8-year-old with notepad cannot do our job. If you are not competitive with your offer you will end up getting someone like you: miserably unqualified.
  2.) 15% is not a generous finders fee when you admit the industry standard is 10%, even for the aforementioned crappy web designers.
  
• "I don't know the specifics of what the project would require and I couldn't think of the appropriate questions off of the top of my head, so I brought it to the people who WOULD ask the relevant questions."
  3.) You are not qualified to hire a freelance programmer for these people for the simple reason that you have no idea what you are doing. Actual freelance hiring agencies earn their much smaller finders' fee by gathering the information needed on their own.
  4.) So basically you made this thread because you need people to do your job for you. You're a disgusting person. Maybe I should charge a 20% "doing Pagewizard's job for him because he's a worthless waste of carbon" fee.

Aw maaaan... this sounded like something I could've whipped up lickety split in Excel. <- I love this emoticon.

No argument there. Except, of course, with the part where I got called retarded.

Interesting that you would close the offer before you posted enough information for a programmer to even determine whether he/she was qualified to do the job.