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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Worldwide Press Freedom Index 2006
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Worldwide Press Freedom Index 2006
2006-10-24, 3:34 AM #1
How free is the press in your country?

Worldwide Press Freedom Index 2006

I was positively surprised to find that The Netherlands are one of the countries ranking first place. Very interesting to go through that list.

Seems like (Northern) Europe is a good place to be.
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2006-10-24, 3:40 AM #2
10 Hungary

uhm ... no?
Pie.
2006-10-24, 4:06 AM #3
Hah, I win again.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2006-10-24, 5:01 AM #4
Originally posted by FastGamerr:
Hah, I win again.


Aye. It seems you can keep on insulting the Americans with no worries.
Frozen in the past by ICARUS
2006-10-24, 6:36 AM #5
Why is Canada not at number 1? This makes me mad. :mad: I think they need to [CENSORED FOR YOUR PROTECTION], and fast.
Stuff
2006-10-24, 9:03 AM #6
Sweden is below both Finland and Norway (more like Snoreway!) :(

But we beat Denmark! :D
VTEC just kicked in, yo!
2006-10-24, 9:20 AM #7
Originally posted by kyle90:
Why is Canada not at number 1? This makes me mad. :mad: I think they need to [CENSORED FOR YOUR PROTECTION], and fast.
Probably the excessively open-ended "hate speech" laws our former liberal leadership put into play. Technically the government here could declare just about anything they want as a hate crime.
2006-10-24, 9:31 AM #8
Yeah I guess that would be it. On one hand I can see how they are good, but an the other hand... freedom of speech is still more important, and stopping someone from saying something doesn't stop them from thinking it. So really those laws don't help at all.

Dammit.
Stuff
2006-10-24, 9:34 AM #9
We're lower than Israel?

Although not by much.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2006-10-24, 9:39 AM #10
Originally posted by kyle90:
Yeah I guess that would be it. On one hand I can see how they are good, but an the other hand... freedom of speech is still more important, and stopping someone from saying something doesn't stop them from thinking it. So really those laws don't help at all.

Dammit.
It's okay. Our right to free speech only granted through Common Law anyway.
2006-10-24, 6:22 PM #11
18!
Eat that Americans!
[Hey look 2.0 has Capitalization too!]
2006-10-24, 8:16 PM #12
Why is America #56? Someone obviously has an agenda. It's pretty easy to see that's unadulterated bull****.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-10-24, 8:19 PM #13
Originally posted by Freelancer:
Why is America #56? Someone obviously has an agenda. It's pretty easy to see that's unadulterated bull****.

Or we're not that free.
D E A T H
2006-10-24, 11:18 PM #14
Originally posted by Freelancer:
Why is America #56? Someone obviously has an agenda. It's pretty easy to see that's unadulterated bull****.


Reporters Without Borders or RWB is a french origin international non-governmental organization that advocates freedom of the press.

And to answer your question:

Quote:
The United States (53rd) has fallen nine places since last year, after being in 17th position in the first year of the Index, in 2002. Relations between the media and the Bush administration sharply deteriorated after the president used the pretext of “national security” to regard as suspicious any journalist who questioned his “war on terrorism.” The zeal of federal courts which, unlike those in 33 US states, refuse to recognise the media’s right not to reveal its sources, even threatens journalists whose investigations have no connection at all with terrorism.

Freelance journalist and blogger Josh Wolf was imprisoned when he refused to hand over his video archives. Sudanese cameraman Sami al-Haj, who works for the pan-Arab broadcaster Al-Jazeera, has been held without trial since June 2002 at the US military base at Guantanamo, and Associated Press photographer Bilal Hussein has been held by US authorities in Iraq since April this year.


That's why.

How the Index was compiled
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2006-10-24, 11:38 PM #15
Originally posted by ORJ_JoS:
:words:

They have? I dunno. You can pick up the L.A./NY Times and still see some unpleasant news about Bush. If not that, then there's not really glorifying praise either.

Edit: If Freelancer, and I have the same feeling about this then something has to be fishy.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2006-10-24, 11:43 PM #16
Originally posted by ORJ_JoS:
Reporters Without Borders or RWB is a french origin international non-governmental organization that advocates freedom of the press.


That explains it!
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2006-10-24, 11:48 PM #17
Originally posted by Krokodile:
That explains it!


Nah.

Quote:
France (35th) slipped five places during the past year, to make a loss of 24 places in five years. The increase in searches of media offices and journalists’ homes is very worrying for media organisations and trade unions. Autumn 2005 was an especially bad time for French journalists, several of whom were physically attacked or threatened during a trade union dispute involving privatisation of the Corsican firm SNCM and during violent demonstrations in French city suburbs in November.
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2006-10-24, 11:52 PM #18
Originally posted by JediGandalf:
They have? I dunno. You can pick up the L.A./NY Times and still see some unpleasant news about Bush. If not that, then there's not really glorifying praise either.

Edit: If Freelancer, and I have the same feeling about this then something has to be fishy.


Read what I posted. I think you guys are simply not getting what this index says or how it was compiled. The fact that the US is #56 does not mean your country has no press freedom, it is just less than in other countries.

The USA is still in the 'satisfactory' zone, as shown on the image on the bottom of this page.

The ranking is based on incidents that happened with the press during the last year.

Quote:
It is based solely on events between 1 September 2005 and 1 September 2006. It does not look at human rights violations in general, just press freedom violations.
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2006-10-24, 11:54 PM #19
Originally posted by ORJ_JoS:
That's why.
That's highly unlikely. Bush's imaginary war is not justification for sticking the United States in the 66th percentile. I love how three examples are given as if three examples are enough to convince us of their claim. Two of them didn't even sound American.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2006-10-24, 11:58 PM #20
Quote:
The zeal of federal courts which, unlike those in 33 US states, refuse to recognise the media’s right not to reveal its sources, even threatens journalists whose investigations have no connection at all with terrorism.


I think you underestimate how serious this is. But like I said before, the US' score isn't even that bad, considering the fact that it is still in the 'satisfactory' zone.
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2006-10-25, 12:04 AM #21
My beef is that it seems to be using anecdotal bits to represent the whole. For all we know, those blokes imprisoned or fine is just the result of some ******(s) getting their jollies off by doing this.

It says:
Quote:
The index should in no way be taken as an indication of the quality of the press in the countries concerned.

But...how can it be taken any other way? If the government it shutting up the press to keep those in power remaining in power, does that not show that the quality of the press is poor? How good is it to have the press to continually praise the dictator/oligarchy?

Quote:
And in other news tonight. While our glorious Imperator was slaying the evils of the Empire and bringing us to victory and new heights, three people were gunned down after a failed robbery attempt. The Stormpolice, created by the Imperator, shot the would-be robbers. There was much rejoycing.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2006-10-25, 12:21 AM #22
Originally posted by JediGandalf:
But...how can it be taken any other way? If the government it shutting up the press to keep those in power remaining in power, does that not show that the quality of the press is poor? How good is it to have the press to continually praise the dictator/oligarchy?


No, it says something about the 'press climate', not so much the quality of the press. Circumstances and incidents that have an effect on the freedom of the press. Besides, it doesn't always have something to do with the government.

For example, Denmark's score crashed considerably after the all the commotion about the Muhammed cartoons.

Quote:
Fallout from the row over the "Mohammed cartoons”

Denmark (19th) dropped from joint first place because of serious threats against the authors of the Mohammed cartoons published there in autumn 2005. For the first time in recent years in a country that is very observant of civil liberties, journalists had to have police protection due to threats against them because of their work.


...and we're not talking about government threats here, but muslim extremists making it hard for the press to do their job.
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2006-10-25, 12:58 AM #23
Originally posted by Nitropenguin:
10 Hungary

uhm ... no?


Hmm. Well, the press seems to be more or less free here. That's probably because the current gov. prefers other methods to solve disputes than repressing free speech. And, as we learned on Monday, those methods involve riot squads and gas grenades.
幻術
2006-10-25, 1:10 AM #24
Regardless of how the list was compiled, it doesn't suprise me that the US is so low down.

What worries me is that some of you guys in the US think that this is a mistake. I was somewhat suprised that the UK is as low as it is but i'm not suprised about the position of the US.
Detty. Professional Expert.
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2006-10-25, 1:19 AM #25
There's quite a difference between a goverment censoring press, and a goverment putting pressure on journalists through imprisonment under the guise of "national security" issues to not print bad press. This index isn't about the quality of the press, or entirely what is being reported, but the way the country's government responds to it.

I'm kind of just going over what ORJ_JoS has already said, but I just wanted to point that out.
You Can't Kill What You Can't See
-Beware of the FantomJedi
2006-10-25, 1:29 AM #26
Originally posted by Detty:
What worries me is that some of you guys in the US think that this is a mistake.


But America is... perfect! :(
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2006-10-25, 1:33 AM #27
Originally posted by Detty:
What worries me is that some of you guys in the US think that this is a mistake. I was somewhat suprised that the UK is as low as it is but i'm not suprised about the position of the US.


Aye. That was pretty funny. "The results don't satisfy me, so the results must be wrong." Well, I have no doubt that if some other agency did the similar kind of research, the placements might vary considerably, even +10/-10 or more wouldn't surprise me at all. It's not like that kind of research was natural sciences of mathematical truths.

But right now if the USA had been placed considerably higher, then obviously starting from the beginning many countries would have been off the scale. That would look odd.
Frozen in the past by ICARUS
2006-10-25, 7:40 AM #28
Right. Off to Ireland it is then.
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2006-10-25, 8:09 AM #29
Originally posted by lassev:
Aye. That was pretty funny. "The results don't satisfy me, so the results must be wrong." Well, I have no doubt that if some other agency did the similar kind of research, the placements might vary considerably, even +10/-10 or more wouldn't surprise me at all. It's not like that kind of research was natural sciences of mathematical truths.

But right now if the USA had been placed considerably higher, then obviously starting from the beginning many countries would have been off the scale. That would look odd.

Aye.

I don't doubt the results, and it's fairly disturbing that anyone would just because it "doesn't seem right". Just because you don't think it's right doesn't necessarily mean it isn't.
D E A T H
2006-10-25, 9:07 AM #30
Okay. Let me see if I got it right.

Nation A could have a very free society in which everyone's happy but the government shuts the press up because it continually criticizes its policies on x,y, and z and calls the leader a fatty. Ergo it's low on the index.

Nation B could be a brutal dictatorship but the press is allowed to say whatever it wants about the government. Although the constant *****ing does nothing because the government doesn't really care about you. Therefore it is high on the index.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2006-10-25, 9:38 AM #31
In theory, only that would never happen.
nope.
2006-10-25, 9:53 AM #32
Originally posted by ORJ_JoS:
Freelance journalist and blogger Josh Wolf was imprisoned when he refused to hand over his video archives.


His video archives of a protest could have provided evidence as to whether or not someone committed arson. He wasn't imprisoned because he was a journalist.

Quote:
Sudanese cameraman Sami al-Haj, who works for the pan-Arab broadcaster Al-Jazeera, has been held without trial since June 2002 at the US military base at Guantanamo...


...on suspected arms deals.

Quote:
...and Associated Press photographer Bilal Hussein has been held by US authorities in Iraq since April this year.


...on suspected relations with insurgents and members of Al Qaeda.

I don't excuse or justify the detention of these people, but it seems that their association with the news media is either irrelevant or of almost no relation in the cases of their arrest.
the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot - LC Tusken
2006-10-25, 9:55 AM #33
Originally posted by JediGandalf:
Okay. Let me see if I got it right.

Nation A could have a very free society in which everyone's happy but the government shuts the press up because it continually criticizes its policies on x,y, and z and calls the leader a fatty. Ergo it's low on the index.

Nation B could be a brutal dictatorship but the press is allowed to say whatever it wants about the government. Although the constant *****ing does nothing because the government doesn't really care about you. Therefore it is high on the index.


Well, that's a thoroughly skewed perspective of it. Although I agree, your example does outline that the index (of which is relating to the press climate, not the political climate of the country) might be somewhat counter-intuitive. But the example also suggests that censorship is okay, so long as the people still have freedom. Not freedom of speech, but freedom. Is it still freedom if you're not free to voice an opinion? Kind of paradoxical, don't you think?
You Can't Kill What You Can't See
-Beware of the FantomJedi
2006-10-25, 10:04 AM #34
Except that the reasons cited in that article appear to be taken WAY out of context and don't relate at all to the press climate. I'm not defending bush. And I'm not saying he isn't robbing us of our freedom, but the freedom of press largely hasn't changed.
2006-10-25, 10:12 AM #35
My example really can't be done in the real world. I was just trying to come up with an example that shows what the index really is about. But, this site saying it's just about the press climate can't really happen. Press and politics go hand in hand. So if the press is being silenced, then the political climate is not a very pleasant one and vice versa.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2006-10-25, 2:42 PM #36
Originally posted by JediGandalf:
Okay. Let me see if I got it right.

Nation A could have a very free society in which everyone's happy but the government shuts the press up because it continually criticizes its policies on x,y, and z and calls the leader a fatty. Ergo it's low on the index.

Nation B could be a brutal dictatorship but the press is allowed to say whatever it wants about the government. Although the constant *****ing does nothing because the government doesn't really care about you. Therefore it is high on the index.

Which would be the reason it's the Freedom of the Press index, not the Free country index.
D E A T H
2006-10-25, 4:05 PM #37
Originally posted by JediGandalf:
Press and politics go hand in hand. So if the press is being silenced, then the political climate is not a very pleasant one and vice versa.


Well, like I said before, you need to see that it's not all about politics and the government shutting the press up. In Denmark it was muslim extremists seriously affecting the press climate.

Originally posted by Wolfy:
I don't excuse or justify the detention of these people, but it seems that their association with the news media is either irrelevant or of almost no relation in the cases of their arrest.


I see what you mean about those arrested people, but you guys fail to address the most important issue:

[Quote=The Article]The zeal of federal courts which, unlike those in 33 US states, refuse to recognise the media’s right not to reveal its sources, even threatens journalists whose investigations have no connection at all with terrorism.[/Quote]

Forcing the press to reveal its sources (even in cases that don't have anything to do with terrorism), is a very serious issue that harms the functioning of the press. This is chewing on the basis of a free democratic constitutional state.
ORJ / My Level: ORJ Temple Tournament I
2006-10-25, 4:47 PM #38
So is the fear that...

I, reporter JediGandalf, interview....Wolfy (random name). Wolfy is a long-standing proponent of basically tearing down the Bush Administration through violent means. I live in one of these states that forces me to give up the source of my interview to the U.S. Government. The U.S. Government tracks down Wolfy and then begins a long campaign of brutality for speaking against the government.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2006-10-25, 8:16 PM #39
Thats retarded.

You suspect someone, and you know someone that has info on them you go to that person.

Press or not.
2006-10-25, 8:52 PM #40
Originally posted by ORJ_JoS:
Forcing the press to reveal its sources (even in cases that don't have anything to do with terrorism), is a very serious issue that harms the functioning of the press. This is chewing on the basis of a free democratic constitutional state.

Citing sources adds validation to your claims. In an ideal press, sources would be cited. That way, we could more easily ascertain the truth of claims made by the press. If an article is entirely based on a single questionable source, then the public won't be duped into believing the article is legitimate like the public is now. The only instance the press shouldn't reveal a source is at the request of the source and only if it is incriminating against the source (think whistleblowers).
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
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