I got a speeding ticket today. It wasn't given to me on a highway but on a busy ramp leading to the highway.

I was ticketed because a traffic officer stated that I was significantly over the limit. The guy states that I was going 55 mph in a 50 mph speed zone (you can see a scan below)


Here's the scene:
From my experience of driving in the state of Rhode Island, almost all the time, traffic officers position their vehicle perpendicular to the road waiting to chase down offenders. Today, it was 2 officers who parked their vehicle off to the side of the road; both of those officers were outside, one handling writing up tickets while the other one was holding the radar gun and pointing to people to pull over. The man with the radar gun stood in the middle of the road.

The thing is, I saw these guys almost half a mile away so I, like usual, slow down my car (they were positioned on a long, straight piece of road so it was easy to see them). So I was roughly going around 50. But, evidently, the guy with radar gun stepped in my lane and signalled, with his hands, for me to get off the road.

I had to wait in line because they were processing 2 other vehicles that were pulled over before me. It seems they were handing out alot of tickets today...after I got my citation and drove off, they pulled over another guy.

Here's the issue that's bothering me (sorry, this is my first speeding ticket ever): I understand issuing tickets for drivers going 15, 20, 30 mph over the limit, but just around 5? I mean, to factor in possible errors with the radar gun, is there a "margin of error"?

Well, anyway the fine is $85
..

In Britain they just use 10%, so they can technically stop you for anything over 55 in this case.

The first time i saw cops do this was in Toronto. (They were on horseback LOLZ (not really)), and I thought it was fairly interesting.

I haven't heard of any margin of error. In my driver's ed class, I know the teacher (who was an ex-cop) said "you can legally get pulled over for doing 1mph over, even though you usually won't."

So if they were handing out tickets like machinegun fire, which it sounds like they were doing with that setup, they were probably bagging anyone who went the slightest bit over the limit.

However, $85 is a ridiculous ticket for going 5 over. If you were going to fight the ticket, I'd fight to get it reduced...

Sounds like a load of crap, HOWEVER - In WA at least what they write on the front of the ticket often contradicts what they write in their "sworn statement." The "sworn statement" is what's used in court as evidence against you. So in order to contest the ticket on the grounds that it's within the margin of error of both your speedometer and their radar gun, you need to get ahold of the "sworn statement." In WA, the only way to do that is to contest your ticket (check the "I'm innocent" box on the back of the ticket), and once you have a court date set, you write a letter to the court asking for the evidence they have against you. At that point, the court records the request, forwards it to the prosecuting attorney, and they are responsible with providing you the evidence (sworn statement). SOMEONE I KNOW was written a ticket for 10 over (65 in a 55) but on the back the officer wrote "Actual speed 70" or something like that.

In WA, if you get the sworn statement and decide after reading it that you don't really want to contest it after all, you can always change your "I'm innocent" plea and just pay the fine.

In other states, I'm sure the procedure is different - in WA they don't even have to show up to court unless you subpoena them. In other states I've read that they schedule all hearings for contested tickets by the same cop on the same day, so a lot of people have luck writing in and getting their court dates set for another day (when the officer is less likely to show up).

Do a lot of reading, follow all the procedures and do your best to fight it, and you may win. At the very least, make it a pain for them BOTH to show up to court. At least they can't write other people bogus tickets while they're in court.

BTW: getting the fine "reduced" doesn't help you in the long run since the same points go on your license. If you can get it dropped completely, that is the best. Also, you can probably find information on the exact radar gun that was used, find out whether it was certified in compliance with your local laws, and you can probably even subpoena a manual that will list the margin of error. If the margin of error is +- 3mph, and the margin of error on your cars speedo is +- 5mph, and you swear in front of the court that your speedo was reading 50 at the time, you may get out of it going that route. But it's usually easier to get out of it on a technicality (cop didn't file the ticket in time, radar gun wasn't certified properly, tuning fork to certify radar gun wasn't certified properly, cop didn't completely fill out his sworn statement, cop didn't show up to court, etc.) You can have double the fun with these *******s because there are two of them! (it's in your best interest to have both not show up to court because you always lose when it is two cops vs. one citizen in front of a judge)

Ugh---please don't be a whiny *****. Just admit responsibility for a change and pay the ticket.

Thats odd that you got a ticket for only going five over. In South Carolina, the charges are dropped if you contest the ticket, go to court, and the cop doesn't show up. If the officer does show up then you will actually have to argue your case.

Does the ramp where you got the ticket have its own posted speed limit?

Uh except it's not really something he needed to get a ticket for. Stop playing high and mighty.

Regardless, where's Duo when you need him?

That's what everyone always says. Hence why I said it.

In Missouri we can speed up to 5-6 mph over the limit.

However we're one of the worst driving states in the U.S.

(everyone goes 10mph btw...I mean EVERYONE)

to be honest if you car speedo was reading 50mph and you can be sure of it then go and contest it, because in all honesty its bloody harsh that they are giving you a ticket for a what it is only 10% over the limit.

"Most" errors on car speedo's is going to be around the 5% region and then take into account the average error on a police radar gun being around 2-3% as brian said and then you get a ticket for being at the top end of this error, those cops must have been in a bloody bad mood that day.

Personally I'd contest it. If I had been caught un-aware and not even seen the police beforehand then yeah, I'd hold my hand up and say I was speeding, but if as you say you saw them in advance and slowed down to the required speed limit shown by your speedo, then getting a fine in those circumstances is fecking annoying.

That is an admission of speeding. I'm not too sure that would help your case in court.

Bah, it's all a game. If they really wanted people to stop speeding the fine would be $1000.00. They want people to speed so they can harvest for revenue. Thus, I don't think it's immoral to fight a ticket, even if you are GUILTY. Especially considering most cops (at least around here) break the law by lying on the ticket, lying on their sworn statement, and not following the law properly when they file it. I've never had to go in front of the judge and lie by saying, "yeah, I wasn't speeding, even though he says I was." That doesn't work anyway, the judge never believes the citizen. That's why you are forced to get off on a technicality. If the damn cops would obey the law in the first place by getting themselves and their radars certified properly, filling out the paperwork properly, and filing the ticket with the court properly, it wouldn't be so easy to get a ticket. The problem is, it takes them 3x as long to do it the lawful way, and it's way easier to write more tickets in that time and just let the ones that contest it slide (because most people just pay the tickets).

it depends on the state I think - in MD you can legally get pulled over for 1 mph over the limit, you just usually won't and if you contest it, the judge is likely to be nice. I tihnk in VA you get can pulled over if you're going 5 mph over the limit but I could definitely be wrong about that.

The 1 mph thing baffles me. Between the car's analog speedometer and the radar gun, I seriously doubt the whole system is dead-nuts, no margin of error accurate.

I mean, obviously you're not going to get pulled over for 1 mph, but the fact that it's even possible for it to happen and the ticket to be legal is just insane.

You're mistaking "everyone" for "old people from Illinois and Kansas" :mad:.

Officially, it's always "there's no grace range - you speed, and we'll bust you".

That said, I usually manage 10 over in the passing lane and I've yet to get a ticket in the past 6 years.

I would seriously contest this ticket - not to get it removed, but to get it reduced. Five over is hardly worth considering, and most cops I've known ( all 2 of them! ) wouldn't give you a second glance.

In VA, you will probably never be pulled over for 5 MPH over the speed limit, but anything over that is definitely pushing it. I always go 5 over no matter where I am and I've never been pulled over... and cops are frickin rampant here.

Here's the long and the short of it: if you are worried about margin of error, then slow down until you think the margin of error still puts you under the speed limit. When approching an obvious crackdown like that (I won't argue whether it is justified or not, I don't know what kind of cops you have over there) i'd say it's probably a good idea to err on the safe side. If you want to fight it because you think you were going the speed limit, by all means, do it, listen to these people telling you how to argue your case. If you want to fight it even though you know you were doing over the speed limit, then fight it if you must, but i hope you get stuck with it anyway. And trust me, if you lose that, you'll probably be worse off than if you had plead guilty or no contest or whatever.

The CHiPs (California Highway Patrol) don't write the actual speed on citations anymore, because of the reason Brian posted. Instead of writing "67 in a 55 Zone", they put "60+ in a 55 Zone." Sneaky bastards.

I would go to court and try to fight it anyway; if the cop doesn't show you're off the hook, and the judge might just let you off anyway. Sometimes the traffic judges are in good moods, or just feel like being nice to a kid.

I got pulled last month for 75 in a 70 zone, in West Virginia.

Granted, it was late at night, almost no one on the road, and I was passing an unmarked cop car that I had been following but then it started slowing down to the high/mid 60 range... it was probably a setup.

I wasn't even intentionally speeding either -- just got careless with the cruise control and didn't realize it in time.

Fine was $165.50

Speeding tickets suck.

Not really. Your speedometer is off more than the radar gun.

Sucks that you got a ticket, though - I've never heard of anyone up here pulling anyone over for 5 over, let alone actually writing it...

?!
$165 for 5 mph over the speed limit? Jesus, 10 (km/h, mind you) over gets you like a $50 ticket over here.

If you're ten MPH over the limit in Britain, and get caught nowadays you get fined £60 and 3 points on your license.

Yeah...heck, 16-20mph over in NH is 'only' $100...guess we're cheap up here!

This strikes me as utter nonsense and I'd be surprised if you couldn't get it overturned. I should caution that I don't have any experience with this kind of thing though. I've had one ticket, I was blatantly and indefensibly speeding, and I accepted it, went to defensive driving, and moved on.

For us (GA), you have to be going above the limit by 10 or more for police to pull you over (from my talks with an officer I know). However, for the highways - technically if you're 1 mile over the speed limit they can pull you over. Those state troopers will kill you!

Yeah, the tolerance stackup is likely to be around 5, and that's a bit low to get pulled over for anyway. And it's the beginning of the month, so it's not like they're trying to meet their quota.

Flow of traffic around here is usually 65-70 in a posted 55.

On I95, people mistake the name of the road for the speed limit. Then drive faster. You'll get pulled over for going 55 or under in a 65, but not for going 85. Figure that one out.

At any rate, speed traps are illegal in many places. It's illegal for cops to 'set you up', and you can always get a good lawyer and sue the state.

What is "Accidents are caused by drivers who don't stay with the flow of traffic," Alex?

Echo, didn't read most of this thread, but seriously, contest it. I garuntee the judge will look at the ticket, laugh, and dismiss it.

5 over is rediculous (also, since it's your first speeding ticket ever they'll be inclined to be lenient anyway).

Does anyone else think it's pathetic when the police make driving situations dangerous in order to write out tickets. I've almost been in at least 3 accidents as a result of police officers either pulling out into the road, speeding past me, or spontaneously changing lanes in order to pull over you guy who is "unsafe" because he's going 5 -10 over. It's awful. If they were really about patrolling to keep the roads safe, they'd have an entirely different attitude.

Are you serious? I routinely drive 10 kph over on the highway. I mean, the other day I was doing 110 on the 407 and got passed by an OPP car.

In Phoenix, it's standard practice to drive 5-10 mph over the limit. On the freeways, most people go 10-20 over.

The road from my house to work has a 40mph speed limit, and I travel it 75mph every day.

It's a rural windy road, and nowhere on the side for cops to sit.:D

What a prick. They were probably just trying to fill quotas.

Hopefully next time he's standing in the middle of the highway, he's mowed down by a truck driver who's zoned out from not sleeping for three days.

Yeah, until you dismount the gun and hold it in your hands trying to clock something at a great range. Natural swaying of an officer's hands can offset the readout more than the inaccuracies of a speedometer.

Have you tested this with a modern radar gun? I'd be interested to see a credible study. I can run radar while driving...and I don't need a smooth-as-glass road, either.

If 3 years ago is modern enough.

No, you don't need smooth-as-glass road, but you do need to use your training of estimating speed by sight, because you driving past someone going the opposite direction will give you an incorrect reading. Having multiple moving cars in front of the gun will throw it off as well.

237kmh in 80 zone, 450e and lost my license for 5 months. Definately worth it.

We can run radar on opposing traffic and same-direction traffic from either front or rear of the vehicle. We can also run stationary radar, front or rear - voice-activated with readouts on a laptop. Might be a little different than what you may be familiar with?

Our radar will lock on a specific target - in the case of multiple vehicles, you can differentiate between which vehicle is locked by the tone - higher pitch is faster...example: visual observation of two vehicles combined with an alternating tone and alternating readout speeds indicate that one is going x speed, the other is going y speed...visual observation will differentiate between the two.

Incidentally, if the radar has a lock on a vehicle, but the vehicle is not moving in a straight line towards or away from the radar, it's going to read slower than the actual speed. So, any inaccuracies would be in your favor.

They must have fixed a bit of the multiple object tracking problems in the last three years. Do you guys still have problems with the radio causing interference? Or batching and panning?