http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=312008&in_page_id=1770
It's funny that they spend so much time talking about the fact that the boy played a computer game and interviewing some guy who came up with the incredible fact that a large number of youth murderers had computer games of some sort. (Yeah, I'm sure you'll find a large number had TVs, pencils and beds should we ban those too?)
Meanwhile it briefly notes:

I get the feeling that that would have been the main reason behind it.
Anyway, what do you guys think?

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Fight like a Warlord

Yea but Manhunt is a disturbingly violent game.
I agree it is stupid and one sided, but I do see how that game could have influenced him.

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*

Its at times like this that Im reminded of the following quote...



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Dear lady, can you hear the wind blow, and did you know
Your stairway lies on the whispering wind.
:wq!

...

Mid-brain?

Somehow that doesn't convince me.


And why is it that they are only talking about "violent" games influencing children? A more interesting study would be to see if computer games as a whole influence children. If children play Mario, will they start jumping on turtles? If they play Sonic, will they spike up their hair and run really fast?

There's no reason why 'violent' games should be any different to 'non-violent' games.

So what they're saying is, a teenage like me can't tell the difference between a cell-shaded game and reality? Morons.

[This message has been edited by Delphian (edited July 29, 2004).]

>.>

I have no idea what you're talking about

<.<

I've loved the DF/JK series, yet I haven't impaled anyone with a lightsaber yet... I fail to see any connection between gaming and reality.

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GhostOfYoda - General doer of stuff.

I had time, so idecided to rip this to shreds bit by bit.



Nothing about leblanc's parents of cource. they would be too knowlageable of why this actually occured.



Oh, yes. there's a sane and unbiased source of info for this case.



My, my, my. we really do have a convention of 'a friend of a friend' quotes in this one.



I'm not even going to attempt to talk about that. it kills itself.



Ok, so, your saying, had he killed him with a gun, there wouldn't be a connection? sheesh.



If you've never played them, don't tlak about them, idiot.



Um, yah, its called stealth. i could give you half a dozen otehr games with that feature. None have been singled out for 'copycat killings'.



Fiorst off, as already stated, a huge amount of kids play video games. i'd be hard pressed to show a 'child killing' in which the kid didn't play video games.

Secondly, That stuff abou the mid-brain is crap. The mid-brain is the area that integrates signals from the hind brain, automatic functions, and the fore brain, consciousness and motor skills. its has nothing to do with "differentiation between reality and fantasy." If anywhere, that would be delt with in the frontal lobes.



Again, this is obviously the reason for this assault, not some game.

Ok, thats it for me. the rest of this article is arguments against this dren.

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"No good can ever come from staying with normal people"
-Outlaw Star
"Some people play tennis. I erode the human soul"
-Tycho, Penny Arcade
"I'm a Cannabal-Vegitarian. I will BBQ an employee if there is no veggie option"
-DX:IW
A Knight's Tail
Exile: A Tale of Light in Dark
The Never Ending Story²[/i]

What the hell. These people make me sick. All they want to do is ban the games because they don't like 'em. I've even played Vice City a lot, but then I practically won and uninstalled it 'cause it got boring. The entire time I played it, I never got any "violent tendencies" at all, which was about a total of, like 48 hours or something, broken up over a month. It's not like it's very realistic, because the civilians look nothing like civilians in real life. It certainly would never make me want to even hurt anyone in real life. Did I ever have tendencies to go on a random whacking spree whenever I happened to have a baseball bat in my hands? Absolutely not. The first thing I usually thought was 'wood' actually ( ), because it was made of wood, and then it probably 'baseball'. There never followed a 'kill everything in sight' thought.

...How aggravating. -_-

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Excessive stupidity is not required.
-Rodel

[This message has been edited by Zell (edited July 29, 2004).]

I get more violent tendancies when browsing pages made with Flash. When I'm searching for something and I have to go through a flash intro, wait for the navbar to dance around the page, wait for a flash ad to scroll up the page and wait for the text to come up with all sorts of swirly effects on it only to then find that I can't copy-paste it because the text is it in flash too, that's when the homocidal tendancies set in. If the "contact details" page wasn't in flash too, I would be tracking down that webmaster and mercilessly slaughtering him.

grrrrr.

I think it might all come back to the kind of person you are. I play plenty of games that, by these peoples standards, should be giving me violent tendencies, but they dont. In fact I am the least violent person I know . These things must just rub off on some people the wrong way, or else they are just sick and deranged to begin with. Games like GTA that are so controversial, honsetly bored the hell out of me. I think these people are going to far as to have these games pulled from the shelves. Some people just hate video games, and they will jump at any chance they get to have them removed like this. I haven't played Manhunt, but if this game is giving people violent tendencies, I fear for the release of Doom 3

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ZGPC

What if these anti-violent-video game people were all killed by a fat italian plumber in a red hat jumping on them repeatedly. Wouldn't that be poetic justice in its purist form?

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I figure that one day I'll either be famous, or in prison. But I guess if I'm going to prison, I should probably try to do something that would make me famous anyway.

"Warren Leblanc faces life behind bars for repeatedly battering Stefan Pakeerah with a claw hammer and stabbing him to death after luring him to a local park."

"He confessed to the killing when found covered in blood by two police officers shortly afterwards."

Two main problems here.
One: /Impact/ Hammer, not Claw Hammer.. kids these days.
Two: Bring a few damn water arrows to mop up the bloodstains afterwards, otherwise the guards will get alerted.

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[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"That's why we had to beat you with tennis rackets".
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

Yeah either that or just take them out to a dock. Everyone knows the cops never cruise by the docks. These kids pay attention to all the wrong aspects of the game.

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I figure that one day I'll either be famous, or in prison. But I guess if I'm going to prison, I should probably try to do something that would make me famous anyway.

Was this in Britain?

Boy that store sure caved in easily. One stupid person has no right to dictate what legal items a store can or cannot sell.

[This message has been edited by Freelancer (edited July 29, 2004).]

Another perfect example of the parents failing to raise their kid. They had no idea what he was doing or what games he was playng. Yes, there are violent video games out there, but it's the parent's resonsibility to keep up with the game the kids ar playng. I know that can't be done all the time (kids go to frineds house, etc), but there is a complete lack of information and knowledge on the parents' part here.

Also, claiming that violent video games cause violent behavior is just a little bit of a stretch[/sarcasm]. Millions and millions of people play video games and have no trouble telling the difference between video game worlds and the real world.

It's just another cop out.

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

is it just me, or does the game sound more fun after reading that story? Sure... some kid died for them to try and make a point... but the game still sounds fun the way they were playing it up... Think i'll go rent it sometime.

but dammit I hate people blaming killing on games... after playing games like Counter Strike... Am I going to run to the nearest recruiting center and join the army to kill terrorist?

am I going to rush to the same place to join the army after playing the many games that take place in WWI or II?

these kids are sick and twisted before playing the games... they just need something to blame the murders on so their perfect angel does not look so bad... No parent wants to admit their kid is a friggin murderer, so they blame it on games, if not, violent movies, or television shows.... hell, I'm sure radio was blamed for killings at one point.

and to close my rant...
http://www.ctrlaltdel-online.com/?t=archives&date=2003-12-15

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Inter arma silent leges

<3

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"Just remember -- No matter how bad things get, Northern Minnesota will always be there"
-- Garrison Keeler

I hate people who think that violence didnt exist before TV/video games. this is total bull****. i mean what was the video game that hitler and stalin played? what tv show influenced them to kill millions of people? oh thats right... NOTHING. this **** is all in people's heads, and their weak minds are just set off.

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There are two asses in Massassi... and I'm one of them.
The Matrix Unplugged|My Portfolio|My Levels

How is it that "officials" haven't noticed that blaming violent video games for murders are just an excuse to keep from blaming the murderer? How freaking obvious does it have to be?!

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For a healty meal, eat mashed potatoes, peas, and catloaf.
cuttin' into my free time, man."

Valuable Life Lesson: Frog + Potato Gun = Blindness

NOW LET'S BAN ALCOHOL BECAUSE IT MAKES PEOPLE KILL OTHER PEOPLE AND STUFF[/those 'people']

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What happens when you cast heal on the undead?

Don't forget guns Genki

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ZGPC

A video game is a media, just like television, movies, comics, the news and books. What you get out of it is entirely determined by your own thought process.

People constantly call for the banning of articals of such media, and it will do nothing. The child's warped view of the game (assuming it played even a partial role, which I doubt) was brought about by his own mental state.

In Attack of the Clones we see Jango's head cut off his body and his 9 year old son hold his Father's helmet in grief. I've heard the scene decried as irresponsible. No one bothers to examine what that meant, or what theme it was suggesting.

I think it's all an excuse for parent's inability to raise their children. I can't imagine how hard it is to point out little facts of life to a child as you raise him up in the world. A reasonable adolescent should be able to view such things with a lttle critical thought, but teaching that would be a little hard for someone who probably can't critically analyze anything for oneself. A critical mind can see a theme where it is, or recognize hollow crap.

When a child supposedly sees a message that murder is acceptable in a single piece of media, perhaps the fault lies in his not having heard a single opposing view from his parents, or having been taught to see it everywhere else in society, where that opposing view is echoed. Think how poorly a child would have to be raised to not see that as common sense.

Then again, I haven't raised a child so what would I know...

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Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....

[This message has been edited by Bounty Hunter 4 hire (edited July 29, 2004).]

I think now's the perfect time to break out an essay i wrote last semester in Grade 12: "Of Violence and Video Games" (brace yourself for a long read. If you can't be bothered, just skip the the next post).

Violence and Video-Games

The steamy air of the jungle wafts around you, filling almost every sense to brimming. Your palms sweat. Your eyes strain to pierce the dense foliage while your ears strain to hear anything above the din of the various animals, as you know that you are not alone – someone is tracking you. A bullet strikes the dirt not more than a few inches from you. Adrenalin pumping you scamper away to try and find cover. Finding a secluded path, you stealthily move up it with cat-like grace, only to round a corner and find yourself staring into the eyes of your opponent.

This is the kind of experience that many brave men and women treat themselves to every night across the globe – the phenomenon that is online gaming. A “First-Person Shooter” (“FPS” for short) is a very simple type of online game – you must run around a level or “map” “fragging” (killing) your various opponents in a fast-paced match that can last anywhere from 5 minutes to days on-end (an example of this is the 3-day gaming festival called “Quake-Con”). It requires very little thinking (on the surface, but then you have to factor in tactics and teamplay…) – just reflexes of steel, a truckload of skill and patience, and a strong stomach (as the action usually tends to get a bit gory). Quake, Unreal, Counter-Strike, Half-Life – these are but a few of the many titles to be found in online gamers collections these days, but as with every form of entertainment, there are critics that will apparently use any excuse to slander it. And as we all know, society has no shortage of critics.

The TV (or idiot-box as it was known when it was the most chiefly-criticized form of entertainment) is mostly where the non-gamer will hear about games (unless they spend any amount of time in stores that deal in computer software). Commercials set them up, and the news knocks them down. That’s right – the news. There are murderous rampages all over the world, and it seems that lately, many perpetrators of both physical assaults and threats of bodily harm blame PC games – specifically FPSs (usually Counter-Strike). Whenever such an act is committed, the various newscasters are quick to dive upon it like vultures, and snap up the choice words of the convicted criminal. And will he give a plea of insanity? Well, sometimes yes, but there is an ever-increasing number of delinquents that blame their “little outburst” on playing FPSs against other people, and then trying to replicate the experience in real life. There is a growing list of bizarre cases of these attacks and threats being blamed upon the game (one of the strangest being one teenager sending a fellow player an AK-47 in the post), and while there are a few that are true (due to the killer’s more than likely insanity), most of them are simply the criminals passing the buck.

Criminals must acknowledge what they are doing, and society must stop hanging on every word that they say, as the common criminal laughs in society’s proverbial face while innocent gamers are closely scrutinized as potential criminals. But enough of this debate. It’s time for another round of Quake.


*edit* Minor grammer corrections made above.
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"Iraqniphobia - The fear of non-existant weapons of mass-destruction."

[This message has been edited by Forsakahn (edited July 29, 2004).]

i've been sitting at work hearing this news story come on every few hours, total and utter bull****.....

everyone has already said what I feel on this matter before so I won't repeat endless quotes,

1)saying how stupid it is relating murders to video games, they ignore the real reason for the killing, drugs/money/etc...

2)there is absolutly no evidense what-so-ever to say that playing games like this will cause you to go out and murder someone, same argument was used on violent movies before games became more popular, again no link was ever found.

add to that my parents read this paper that ran it as the headline, it always has a go at computer games and tries to blame them for all sorts of societies woes...ggrr...now all this makes me want to....go do something evil to something/someone........

think i'll just go stab some city guards brutally through the top of their skull and take utter delight in the crushing sound as it enters their skull...

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I heard someone say once that the world is a fine place and that it was worth fighting for....I agree with the last part.

People of our generation should not be subjected to mornings.

Rbots website

Didn't you all hear? San Andreas will be packaged with a fully loaded semi-automatic rifle, in hopes to create more gang-activity in youths. It'll also load and cock the gun for you to, just by pressing the 'x' button on your PS2 controller. If it hits big, they're thinking of including a brick of Crack Cocain for all the poor kids who've been deprived of a good high.


Seriously, let's compair: How many lawsuits have been filed against rockstar relating to violence or murders? 10, 20, even a 100? 1000 might be overshooting, but who knows? Now, with that, how many kids play the game? Probably over a billion, if not, more. Now, That's like, a 1 to 100000 ratio. 1 out of every 100000 kids is going to shoot someone from playing Vice City [even less for Manhunt, since this is the first one I've heard of]. Well, what happened to that fully trained 'army' of kids that Rockstar has made into a group of killing machines?

Video-games don't find you a gun, load it, cock it and plug in the neon sign pointing towards the busy street. All of that takes willpower, and if a video-game gives you that willpower, than it is YOU who's at fualt, not some company that's entertaining you.

JediKirby

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jEDIkIRBY - Putting the Romance back into Necromancer.
Proud Leader of the Minnessassian Council

Live on, Adam.

What they really need to do, is have an interview on every single news channel about this.

The interviewees would be as follows (On each station):

8-10 year old Girl and Boy

14 year old Girl or Boy

18 year old Guy (I doubt the ladies are gonna be playing these games very often)

20+ Guy

Mother of a hardcore gamer


That'd be interesting to watch, espescially if they are people like us. The mother would say "Heck, my kid was retarded from the begining, his random sta-.. I mean..." Or, if I was being serious today: "My son/daughter has been playing these 'violent' video games since they were # years old. Their attitude hasn't changed a bit, except maybe the odd talking back, but that's because they just want to play the game." Or something... Yeah my suggestions still suck

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"Dalton, that pie just moved of it's own accord."

"You must be mistaken, Tess. A pie can't move."

Exactly....

I love to play games like that... The fact that you can so freely do this kind of stuff is the appeal... But I HATE the sight of real blood. it's one thing to splatter pixels over ingame geometry... it's another to actually pick up a weapon and smash someones head in...

If he had the will power to kill someone, it was there to begin with... they just used the game as an outlet to take the heat off him... Like i said ealier... They don't want to admit a 17 yr old did this, they want to blame th game and make him seem a little less like the killer he really is.

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Inter arma silent leges

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<ubuu> does hitler have a last name?
<jipe> .. yes, Ubuu, we're racist commy nazi jews, and we hate male pattern baldness
<Professor`K> Sorry, but half-way through your logic, my head exploded

I have only one thing to say...

ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US!!!


^ now if stuff like THAT didn't influence our elders to go kill people and start speaking backwards english, why should Manhunt influence killings except from stupid morons who need help anyway?

it says RIGHT IN THERE, the kid was OBSESSED with the game... nobody should get to that point with any game!!! I mean hell, EverQuest kills more people than Manhunt, that's just picking on one little RockStar game that's trying to make money...


Ok so I had more to say, COME STAB ME WITH A GLASS SHARD!!! O_O

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We are all forsaken, and the sins that we have taken shall now send us to our graves.

So, he's "inherintly evil," yet somehow its the video games fault that he went and killed someone? I mean, if he's evil anyway, why would the game matter?

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Wisdom is the application of knowledge.

GBK makes me sad.

Let it be known, however, that while I do not deny that the incident occured, I may have embellished just a little bit for the sake of making an entertaining story.

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Empty.

Ohh God Wolfy that was great!!!

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Massassi - Muh-Sah-See

"I was driving along listening to the radio, when Judas Priest comes on. It was 'You've got another thing coming.' All of a sudden, I enter 'VICE CITY RAM[P]AGE MODE' and nearly ran some guy over"
- ]-[ellequin

That was my sig for a long time. It still makes me laugh. ]-[ellequin quotes are beautiful, like the one about the cat.

JediKirby

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jEDIkIRBY - Putting the Romance back into Necromancer.
Proud Leader of the Minnessassian Council

Live on, Adam.

What people fail to realise is that kids dont become murderers because of the game. Would be murderers play the game.

The problem already is there, and they go and play these games because its like the real thing.

Now with that being said, some games should be banned I think. This is one of them... I dont know much about it, but it just seems wrong.
GTA I cant say I like either... but I dont think I'd ban it. Maybe.. .I dont know.. I havent played it.

Games like Half-Life, CS, DoD.. pfft go to hell... they arent a problem.

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Founder of the Massassi Brute Squad (MBS)

B'tduz: A popular dwarfish game which consists of standing a few feet apart and throwing large rocks at one another's head.

"Yes, it's a bloody flying alligator setting fire to my city!" - His Grace His Excellency the Duke of Ankh, Commander Sir Samuel Vimes.

Morituri Nolumus Mori

You... haven't played GTA? thats mindlowing!
I don't know a single person who doesn't know and love GTA, even most non-gamers have played and enjoyed it.
If they ban it, there will be a world-wide revolt, with much drawing and blood and gnashing of teeth and people forced to choke to death on their own apendages.

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I AM NOT SKOOJ!!!

The Judaist Preist case settled all this. Case closed.

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Kieran: The reason I put a link to it is because she is in underwear and I know the admins are touchy on that.
Yecti: Jaiph will touch himself for hours if he so much as smells a woman's underwear

If I can't have my GTA, I'm going to have to live it out in real life.

Try to find a teenager who dosen't play video games to some degree. You could easliy make the same case about rock music or TV. They're doing an Ergo propter hoc fallacy or something like that.

WOW HE USED WEAPONS THAT PEOPLE HAVE USED TO KILL OTHER PEOPLE FOR A FEW THOUSAND YEARS

yet we have had video games since what? the 70s? maybe before that if you count the earliest forms of video games which only a small number of people could play because only a small number of people had access to the computers they ran on... not even a half a century...

what makes me want to kill? idiots who try to come up with this BS about how orms of entertainment can make someone do stuff they wouldn't do anyway...

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LONG LIVE DREAMCAST!!!