So violence?

I'd probably be violent if someone protested at my <loved one's> funeral.

The aforementioned figures championed ideals that were towards the betterment of humanity. They fought against hatred and power.

The Phelps promote hatred and bigotry pure and simple. They do not promote anything that goes towards improving humanity. They go for power, aggression, hate, and oppresion nothing else. The only answer is to crush them mercilessly by any means necessary.

You are protecting hatred.

No, he's right. Because it's very easy for someone to say the exact same thing about a truly good movement.

Free speech protects the minority because the majority is not always right.

Those idiots don't deserve freedom. Their actions more than justify stripping it of them. It's a judgement call — just like everytime we take away someone's freedom by putting him in prison.

What do you mean by act? Of course hating someone in thought is not aggression, but actually acting on it is. The Phelps's have crossed the line into action.

what

Anyway, if they're protesting near a funeral, they're disrupting a private event. This is the case even if they're on public property. They have every right to hold their protests only as long as they're sufficiently far away from these funerals.

I'm not crazy about the idea of "causing emotional distress" being grounds for punitive damages, but the other $8.9 million is pretty clearly justified, IMO.

You Americans are nuts.

why id it that the US seems to be home to a lot of people that dont seem to accept the fact that with every right comes a responsibility to not abuse said right. the phelpses abuse their rights by useing their right to free speach to infringe on a whole lot of rights of people just because they have a different sexual preferance.

What? You're saying that picketing (if it's far enough away from a funeral) and holding up signs (that probably shouldn't be allowed to say 'godhatesfags,' since that's hate speech in my book) is infringing upon others' rights? Comfort isn't a right.

The Phelps are ultimately a test of people's understanding of freedom, in my opinion. What scares me is that a number of you fail it.

i am saying that what the phelpses have been doing over the years has been a serious setback to the furthering of equal rights for GBLT. because they have been succeeding, other groups have also been able to continualy use their political muscle to prevent rqual rights from being obtained.

remember kirby, the phelpses have done more than just protest at funerals. also, if people dont have the right to feel secure, then why the hell is the US at war to make the country secure (or at least, what the government is telling you they are doing, but that is another bag of worms)

Bah, Bastards need some cash loss to rethink this whole thing.

Comfort != Security

And we're talking about their protests, not anything else they've done.

also, is it just me or do a whole lot of people in the US tend to take their rights afforded to them for granted. I mean, you do realise that your bill of rights allows people to argue that if something is not gaurenteed in it, then you do not have it. also, many other major democracies have laws that restric speach that is only intended to cause emotional distress to others, and they still function perfectly. The US seems to be the only country with a large proportion of people who seem to think that they can say whatever they want, whereever they want, and not get into any trouble at all. Yet, you dont let women fight on the front line, and the only other nation (that hasnt got laws against homosexuality in general) that disallows homesexual servicemen from serving openly is russia, and even they let them serve openly if they remain masculin (or something along those lines). basicly, you spout all this stuff about being a free nation, when realy, it is the groups with political conections (which can be good and bad) that have the greatest swing in policy making, and you would rather give up your ability to live without being harrassed to loose the ability to say horrible things that you would never say in the first place.

/end rant and put on lava-proof suit.

dude, if there was a group of people that day in and day out spouted hatered to handicapped people, and people with similar views had a strong political muscle, i am sure that you would want them to go away.

also, thngs that they have done previously do matter, or do you think that someone that commits a minor offence that would only be warning worthy if someone with a clean record commited it, should also only be warning worthy if commited by someone who has commited said offence many time before (offence remains unnamed and hypothetical to avoid accusations of poor analogies.)

Also, you do realize that if people like the phelps ever got into positions of power, freedom of speech and freedom of association would also be infringed upon.

First, saying any kind of speech is "horrible" (if it isn't hate speech) opens the doors for all kinds of speech to be horrible. Morality cannot be forced or required of a people. That doesn't allow for change or progression to ever take place.

Second, I identify as bisexual, and the Phelps also have the opinion that crippled people are examples of God, as well. I'd love to have a nice long conversation, if not [insert violent behavior here]. But if my government did these things, I'd be very afraid of what's next.

"'I'm American man, I'm American **** all these ****in foreigners' ... there was a lot of accepted racism ... 'I'm American man, I'm American **** the french' and that was ok ... 'I'm American man, I'm American **** all the arabs' and that was cool. Then they said 'I'm American man, I'm American **** all these illegal aliens.' and then I started listening, cause I knew ni**ers and Jews was next!" - Chris Rock

You can't give your government subjective power. It's only going to end in accepted prejudice.

Child Pornography is horrible.

This country is based on freedom, and therefore free speech should be insured at all times...

But this goes beyond free speech. They are habitually and intentionally causing grief to families over and over again. It's harassment. I'm genuinely surprised no one has killed any of the Phelps, because if they had shown up at my son or brother's funeral, I sure as hell would be doing more than suing.

Exactly.

THEY ARE CAUSING HARM.

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??




???



I am SO confused.

Anyway, all you ****ers had better stop saying that the phelpses don't have the right to say what they say or I will start to get pissed.

However, they do not have the right to DO everything that they are doing, especially in the venues they try to do it in.

Yeah I think that's what I said.

But you know, different.

We agree.

Just follow my lead I got where I am now by posting entirely useless posts.

Like this one.

I miss FGR calling us burgerboys. He doesn't really do it much anymore.

Do we not deserve hot, juicy burgers?

Why is this so hard to understand, people?

No, it doesn't. That's what the Ninth Amendment is for.

You win the thread.

then why did people in the past seem to have no problem at all saying things like movies were not free speach, or a more recent example, that women dont have the right to an abortion?

tell me, why should people that infringe on certain rights of others be able to keep said right for themselves. part of having rights is the responsibility to not only allow others to have that right, but to ALSO not use your rights to try and remove the basic rights of others.

as i said before, the phelpses are trying to use their 1st amenment rights to stop the GBLT community from obtaining equal rights with the rest of the community.

the way they do this is by trying to convince people that acceptence of the GBLT community leads to god getting angry and causing disasters. and judging by this link, there are enough god-fearing people for the phelpses to influence to be able to influence political descisions (and corporate descisions regarding GBLT rights within said company).

also, my previous statements were an attempt to get you to realise that the US isnt the land of "ULTIMATE FREEDOM" (as some people in the US seem to behave like it is, not accusing anyone here, but there are people who dont seem to realise that rights come with responsibilities) that some people make it out to be.

Petitioning gay people on the public sidewalk while not harassing anyone is not using your rights to stop gay people from getting married.

They DO try to stand in the way of gay rights, but this isn't one of those instances. The Phelps themselves have serious issues that need to be dealt with, but their petitioning is not a freedom they should have to lose. That isn't how American works.

so, you have the right to stop others from being able to gain a right they should have in the first place?

We're always looking for new recruits...

Why do threads on stupid people getting justice always have one devil's advocate? I can understand in some instances, but I honestly don't care in this if it sets a precedent--we can reverse that later. For now, bring justice where justice is RIGHTFULLY DUE.

As much as I like stupid people getting ****ed over by the system, I would like a system that works in the first place.

It's America, not Utopia. No system is perfect, and ours has gotten horse****ed quite a bit in the last 8 years. Give it time and do your part--can't really do anything else about it can you?

Yes, this is what I am saying.



Yep.



I'm definitely going to need to see a bit more than that to even consider that they have any real pull in this world.



No **** sherlock. If America was the land of ultimate freedom my life would be entirely different. But your statements are WTF? Especially the military ones. Gays and Women serving in combat units has absolutely ZERO to do with equal rights. Even if some of the motivations of some people is from bigotry, remove those people, and nothing will change because women and open gay relationships have no place in a combat unit.

There is no ultimate freedom. Freedom is not absolute. I mean seriously, nobody who has any credibility believes that. So I don't know who you were trying to convince of anything. Your comments were out of the blue and I didn't get them.

Regardless, anyone who disagrees with me on this subject is wrong.

In the United States of America, according to the dictates of our Constitution and the accompanying Bill of Rights, the Phelps and friends have every right to express the views and opinions that they do.

However,

They do not have the absolute freedom to express these views in any venue or manner they see fit. They also do not have the absolute freedom to carry these views and opinions over into actions, if said actions violate the rights of others.

Is that succinct enough?

Spook yeah!

Some people shouldn't be allowed freedom of speech.



(Not pointing out anyone specifically in this thread...... Oh wait, yes I am)

GBLT?
Sounds like a sandwich.

Well, yeah. But I can complain about it.

Who decides who gets free speech? It's too easily abused. It's pretty scary how many people are ignorant about the fundamental ideals behind the constitution.

I'm blown away at how similar mine and Obi's opinions are. The government cannot have subjective powers.