UT because I used to spend far too much time playing it. When I went back years later I was introduced to the Dr Strangelove mod that makes CTF games even more fun.

Serious Sam 2nd encounter because it had split screen play and co-op and there's something special about turning your opponent into a smear using an oversized cannon.

I don't want to get involved with the CS debate, but I think that the biggest difference is with the communities. The perceived extra difficulty has more to do with CS:S being the newer game and therefore having a higher proportion of new players. I play 1.6 myself, and enjoy the older community on the server I play on.

1) Actually yeah, because it comes down to knowing where people are, flanking them, and reacting faster than they can. If you sneak up on someone they couldn't fire at you. How would they win if they can't even fire at you?

2) And no, the issue I am describing still has not been fixed.

CM, why do you think you know more about CS than a kid who's been playing since beta 3? I'm not trying to come off as an elitist or anything, but I know my ****, and you're straight up wrong, sorry to break it to you.


Yep. For a really good example of this, not necessarily in CS, look at Fata1ity. There are a lot of people out there just as good as him at firing shots, but not many who can run the maps like he does. That's how he wins--pure strategy.


Er...they really don't? But it's pointless because you never see real experts pubbing. So chances are you've never encountered one. However pro gamers can pull down 5 figures a year rather easily if they're good enough/have a good team.

Oh my god 5 figures, what kind of bentleys do they usually drive?

Er, 5 figures a year isn't necessarily much at all...More like 6.

5 figures as in 20-30,000 a year. It's a credible way to live for a couple years if you're really good enough, or at the least dedicated enough. Not many people are though. Some people, who are really good and sell out like mad, pull down 6 figures--Fata1ity being one of them. Normally not too impressive, but you gotta remember this is for playing games all day.

You could make that at McDonalds, and you could actually put that on a resumé

After a year or so maybe. Mcdonalds starts out at 16-17k/year usually, depending on the local cost of living. Also, Mcdonalds isn't nearly as ****ing fun.

I'd rather make money playing video games than working at McDonalds.

A. We're talking about CS:S.
B. It doesn't really matter if you coded the game yourself, you're still wrong.
C. You're just providing more reasons as to why the hitbox differences don't matter, not proving that it makes it easier for newbies and not professionals.

Yes, I know. What's your point?

[Quote=Cool Matty]B. It doesn't really matter if you coded the game yourself, you're still wrong.[/quote]
Right, I'm wrong because you say so. Who are you, my mom? Actually offer a bit of proof, because until you prove that the hitboxes do not drag WHATSOEVER you're 100% wrong. And regardless you are wrong...take it from someone who's played the game more hours than you've taken in college (or that anyone with a masters has taken for that matter).

[quote=Cool Matty]C. You're just providing more reasons as to why the hitbox differences don't matter, not proving that it makes it easier for newbies and not professionals.[/QUOTE]
Grenades. That's really the only reason it's easier for newbies. HE grenades do way more damage at super close range, netting crazy luck kills even without actually throwing it at anyone, flashbangs go off and that's pretty much that for whoever got flashed, regardless of skill, and smokes obscure everything (except long distances against the skybox) really well even if you're not in it.

The guns are different, yes, so is the aiming, so are the hitboxes, but they can be adjusted to with time, which is kind of a given. But the grenades can't really be adjusted to.

Also I provided the crazy glitches you get in Source only (though there are a few for 1.6 they're all so well documented that it's ridiculous nowadays, new ones are popping up in source all the time).

So your complaint is that you keep getting killed by grenades and flashbanged, and you can't see through smoke. I have an idea. Quit getting grenaded and banged. Quit trying to see through smoke. In essence: you suck at CS:S and you're mad about it.

...Complaint? I melt faces at CS:S. It just changes the mechanics. Any noob can own a pro with a flashbang, if timed right, and smokes are too dense. You can actually still see through smoke fairly well if you know what you're doing.

But no, none of it was complaints--I rarely have trouble keeping 2:1 or better in CS:S

Any noob can shoot a pro with the right aim.

Your time spent in CS has nothing to do with your "Expertise" in CS:S hitboxes.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9aa5Gffa50&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4F1704aOFs&feature=related

In summary, any hitbox bullcrap you complain about is only introduced in lag situations as shot prediction not as a missed hit.



Wait, what? Are you seriously throwing this out there?

A. The nades have pathetic range on them. Learn to dodge.
B. It's a GERNADE. I know CS:S isn't supposed to be totally realistic, but come on, if you are standing on a gernade you're going to be missing a torso.
C. Newbies rarely if ever know how to use flashbangs properly. They'll either throw them too soon, in poor places, or even at their own teammates. This goes right back to the whole "experts have better map knowledge and teamwork".
D. Learn to turn around when a flashbang is coming at you. Sometimes it'll completely kill off the effects.
E. Learn to shoot through smoke. Crazy idea, I know.



Frankly I don't understand how you can claim to have such intimate knowledge of CS:S and not know these things already.

Hurr, except it doesn't happen as often. Flashing B is a lot more likely to happen than lining up a headshot to a SPECIFIC location someone's going to come through A and line up perfectly with your aim so you can fire. Think about that for a second...oh wait, you don't think, you just blindly defend a game you probably don't even play anymore. Christ.


So me playing CS forever and a day has nothing to do with knowing anything about hitboxes. Except the more you play the more you know where to fire.

Wait...

[quote=Cool Matty]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x9aa5Gffa50&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4F1704aOFs&feature=related

In summary, any hitbox bullcrap you complain about is only introduced in lag situations as shot prediction not as a missed hit.[/quote]
That's not at all the problem I was talking about...the video/s (which are very professional and definitely add credibility to your argument...in bizarro world) talk about the issue where the hitboxes were in front of the character, which yes got fixed. The hitboxes still drag though.



[quote=Cool Matty]Wait, what? Are you seriously throwing this out there?

A. The nades have pathetic range on them. Learn to dodge.[/quote]
If thrown right, an HE nade will explode right before you hear/see it, or before either of these happen. I've had them thrown right in my face and taken 70 damage without knowing what was going on. At that point a single glock burst could kill me.

[quote=Cool Matty]B. It's a GERNADE. I know CS:S isn't supposed to be totally realistic, but come on, if you are standing on a gernade you're going to be missing a torso.[/quote]
I know this, I never complained about it, I'm just saying it's a difference in the game mechanics. Why are you defending it?

[quote=Cool Matty]C. Newbies rarely if ever know how to use flashbangs properly. They'll either throw them too soon, in poor places, or even at their own teammates. This goes right back to the whole "experts have better map knowledge and teamwork". [/quote]
No it doesn't--newbies can get lucky with flashbangs easily. You can literally stand at one end of the water on aztec, have someone flash the bridge area water, and be blinded/deafened to the point where you'll never see anyone past 100 feet for ~2 or 3 seconds. That could be the end of you very easily. They also took the spinning-to-avoid flash methodology, which was a really good gameplay mechanic IMO (let's not even get on the topic of silencers :()

[quote=Cool Matty]D. Learn to turn around when a flashbang is coming at you. Sometimes it'll completely kill off the effects.[/quote]
Actually no, they fixed that. It used to, but now at best it weakens them unless you're retardedly far away (use the previous example). Besides that, like I said before, if thrown properly you'll never hear/see these nades coming til it's too late, but that is of course falling in line with better players. Regardless, one can easily get lucky.

[quote=Cool Matty]E. Learn to shoot through smoke. Crazy idea, I know.[/quote]
Try scouting someone through smoke. It's not about popping off random shots, it's about wanting to HIT something. Quit being hypocritically condescending. Crazy idea, I know (especially with how wrong you are [thus they hypocritically])

[quote=Cool Matty]Frankly I don't understand how you can claim to have such intimate knowledge of CS:S and not know these things already.[/QUOTE]
I have plenty of working knowledge of these things. But they're all fixed/old/don't apply.

Look, all your points boil down to this: the game is not the same as the old CS, and you get killed sometimes. Seriously, take a step back and don't stand in doorways.

Your advice fails to anyone who has played the game. If you take a step back, how do you get kills? Nobody stands in doorways.

My points do boil down to that--that's the entire POINT of my points. It's just you guys seem to think that the gameplay mechanic changes do not change the skill level of people who are good at it, and you're straight up wrong :\

You know the enemy can't see you through smoke, either. It would make sense to fire into the smoke to keep them back while your guys can get through it to make proper kills. What's that called, suppressing fire? I don't know, it's some kind of tactic or something.

As far as I can tell, Yoshi, you're saying players can get lucky in CS:S and that's bad. It just seems like you're pissing in the wind.

Also, I used to play CS 1.6 a lot - I was by no means good, but one time with a sniper rifle I shot two guys through the face with one bullet. It was large amounts of awesome.

There are various ways to get around this, and various inconsistencies--one side of the mid sniping in Dust2 can see through smoke, the other can't. I'll let you figure that one out on your own as to which is which


I never said it was bad! You guys need to quit putting words in my mouth. I'm just saying it happens in CS:S. I still play CS:S religiously and haven't touched 1.6 in months, even then it wasn't for very long (a few weeks).

And yeah, double/triple/quadruple headies with the awp make me happy in the pants. The best is when it's on purpose too

Except that CS != CS:S. You even say this.



Then what the hell do you mean by "drag"? Do you mean the lag prediction which existed (and still does) in CS also? Of course that's what you meant, and it's what I was talking about in my quoted statement.

Your claim is that it's easier for newbies. I call BS. Anyone with common sense will call BS. Experts miss, so do newbies. It doesn't affect the balance of skill in any way. Even an aimbot misses every once in a while, so don't bother playing the whole "experts never miss, really" line.



A. A single glock burst would kill you in the head anyway.
B. If thrown right. So we're back to things experts can do that newbies can't.
C. If you are an expert player, you shouldn't be running into obvious nade zones in the first place.



You're not saying it's a difference in game mechanics, you're saying it benefits newbies and not experts. Which is bull.



They more often get UNLUCKY than lucky. If you're really relying on luck as your argument then I think you need to re-evaluate your position. An expert is going to use flashes far better than a newbie. Fact. An expert is going to know where to expect flashbangs, especially at the start of the round. Fact. Hell, an expert is going to know all sorts of tricks that newbies aren't going to know (like throwing flashes and smoke over the double doors in aztec).



At best? I just did it last week and it worked just fine. 5 feet from a flash and I'm blinded for 1 second instead of 5. Saved my life. Perhaps you need to start playing more.

And once again with the luck. Because, you know, luck was never a factor in CS (:downswords:)



Oh God help us if smoke actually works as intended! To think, smoke being a counter to sniping? Why, you'd think that was exactly what it was designed for. Besides, if you're such a good shot being an expert and all, you should have no trouble nailing them when they start firing in the smoke (as you CAN see muzzle flash). Newbies rarely use smokes well (if they use them at all). Regardless, experts are just as capable of using smokes as newbies, it offers no advantage to newbies if they don't take full advantage of the cover (which they usually don't).

HEY GUYS THE BEST INTERNET MULTIPLAYER GAME IS OBVIOUSLY INTERNET CIRCLEJERK AS DEMONSTRATED BY THIS THREAD.

How would you know you suck at that game.

edit: this thread needs more TF2.

Echoman needs to go do more drawings of free's mom.

Sigh. Wow. I'm obviously interchanging the two, because it's pertinent. CS hitboxes are different, CS:S hitboxes drag, how do I know? Because I've been playing long enough to see it going from 1.6 to source. Christ you grind everything down into details until you are absolutely undeniably wrong, then continue anyways.

[quote=Cool Matty]Then what the hell do you mean by "drag"? Do you mean the lag prediction which existed (and still does) in CS also? Of course that's what you meant, and it's what I was talking about in my quoted statement.[/quote]
Not necessarily lag prediction--happens in LAN games too. Dunno why it happens, but interpolate seems to fix it, or at least it used to. I dunno if it really did or if it put the player closer to where he should be or what.

[quote=Cool Matty]Your claim is that it's easier for newbies. I call BS. Anyone with common sense will call BS. Experts miss, so do newbies. It doesn't affect the balance of skill in any way. Even an aimbot misses every once in a while, so don't bother playing the whole "experts never miss, really" line.[/quote]
Aimbots never miss if calibrated correctly, but it's really hard to do. Aimbots also jerk at a billion times per second trying to home in on a certain pixel color on CS 1.6 (it was really fun to get the anti-aimbot spray and watch someone get pissed they couldn't stop aiming at a wall) and I don't know how in source but it's a set value. So you have something rotating wildly to hit you, which if someone doesn't know how to use it will end up with them missing more than they connect.

Experts, the guys who make money off CS, never do miss. Maybe one in every 3000 or so shots, but you have no idea about the upper echelons of the CS community if you think they miss. Seriously, even CAL I people rarely miss. But that's the thing--they're all on generally the same fragging level so it boils down to teamwork/teamplay/strategies.

Also, common sense, while I guess a good thing to have, has nothing to do with what we're talking about. Quit throwing random **** around to make your point seem more valid. You sound like me 3 years ago. It's about knowing the CS community, knowing the game intimately (lolgamesex) and knowing the mechanics of it. How you think you know any of these three things with the comments you've thrown down is a mystery to me.

[quote=Cool Matty]A. A single glock burst would kill you in the head anyway.
B. If thrown right. So we're back to things experts can do that newbies can't.
C. If you are an expert player, you shouldn't be running into obvious nade zones in the first place.[/quote]
A. In the head? I didn't say in the head. I said a single glock burst. Meaning they could shoot me in the pinky toe and I'd die.
B. Newbies can get lucky with nade throws too, or they can have pre-existing skills from other games. The realistic nature of the nades (or at least an attempt therein) lets skillsets from other games with similar nades (even farcry) transition easily.
C. There's no such thing as "nade zones". Where the hell did you come up with that pseudoterminology?

[quote=Cool Matty]You're not saying it's a difference in game mechanics, you're saying it benefits newbies and not experts. Which is bull.[/quote]
Uh, no, I said newbies get bigger benefits. Obviously experts will have a big jump too, as I stated previously usually through glitches (jumping off nades to get to impossible-to-reach areas, pulling tricky **** like tiered flashing with rushes, more complex strategies really). And it's not bull. I'm not saying some guy who just picked up the game is gonna melt faces, but after a bit of getting used to a newb can play a lot better than he could on 1.6/previous versions. I got into CS seriously around the end of 1.4, and it took me til the end of 1.5 to get really good. Man I miss 1.5

[quote=Cool Matty]They more often get UNLUCKY than lucky. If you're really relying on luck as your argument then I think you need to re-evaluate your position. An expert is going to use flashes far better than a newbie. Fact. An expert is going to know where to expect flashbangs, especially at the start of the round. Fact. Hell, an expert is going to know all sorts of tricks that newbies aren't going to know (like throwing flashes and smoke over the double doors in aztec).[/quote]
That's not an expert trick, that's like someone who plays Cal-O trick. I hardly consider them better than pub scrubs. I know they more often get unlucky--I didn't say they don't. But you'd be surprised to see just how many times they DO get lucky. You can expect flashes at certain places, yes, but the interesting thing about facing scrubs is that they don't have the same thought processes developed others do yet. So when you are expecting them to wait for you somewhere they pop out and hit you in the face with a flash, blinding themselves, but they're carrying an smg and pumping rounds into you while you try to switch to your deagle from your awp and hit them with a paltry 7 bullets. It happens, and it's disturbing, because in a real scrim you'd never see **** like that happen, but then again that's why I stopped pubbing for a while when I got good--it made me worse than I was just scrimming every day.

[quote=Cool Matty]At best? I just did it last week and it worked just fine. 5 feet from a flash and I'm blinded for 1 second instead of 5. Saved my life. Perhaps you need to start playing more.[/quote]
lawl, right. I'll believe that when I see it.

[quote=Cool Matty]And once again with the luck. Because, you know, luck was never a factor in CS (:downswords:)[/quote]
It...wasn't. Once in a while someone might get lucky, but it wasn't every game every server. CS 1.6 was complex to the point where it required you to play aim maps to get a decent idea of how to use the M4 and AK (though once you picked it up you were pretty much golden as long as you didn't stop right there). 1.6 nades were wonky as ****. Things like jumping through the roof on assault to get to a sniper position faster never occured to scrubs, so they didn't look for the snipers up there, **** like that. What are you on that you actually believe the things you're saying?

[quote=Cool Matty]Oh God help us if smoke actually works as intended! To think, smoke being a counter to sniping? Why, you'd think that was exactly what it was designed for. Besides, if you're such a good shot being an expert and all, you should have no trouble nailing them when they start firing in the smoke (as you CAN see muzzle flash). Newbies rarely use smokes well (if they use them at all). Regardless, experts are just as capable of using smokes as newbies, it offers no advantage to newbies if they don't take full advantage of the cover (which they usually don't).[/QUOTE]
1) I never said it wasn't how it was intended (though ironically enough smoke works more against mid/long range rifles and smgs than anything else. Snipers can see through smoke if they know how to do it), I just said it's different. Do you seriously read the **** I post? I mean really...
2) I never claimed to be an expert. To be honest I just got way too into CS for a while and met up with some guys in CPL. Watched them play, got a bit better, learned a lot...then gave up on CS for 6 months and was mediocre at best after that.
3) Not many people, even scrubs, are stupid enough to fire through smoke. Why? Because YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING (to use your own favorite expression here)

But regardless, you actually believe in the tripe you've concocted for yourself, and so do some of the other scrubs in CS. Believe what you want, I really don't care, I tried laying the facts down and got thrown back because obviously a guy who's gone up to CAL IM in 1.6 and has dabbled in CAL in source and has been playing the game long enough to know what most of the client and server-side cvars do exactly (without ever having adminned or run a server) and running some of the strats, and pulled off and been a victim of every situation he's shown you guys, knows less than some guy who plays for fun on the weekends. Right.

Also, this argument's gone way too far for a simple disagreement in CS specifics. Ironically, in Brian's day this topic would've been locked/the offending posts deleted or moved by now.

I'll let you guys figure out why it's ironic.

So, the summary of your wall of text is: "I KNOW CAL PLAYERS SO I AM RIGHT".

It's not tripe, it's not "scrub beliefs", and it's not concocted. I wish it was, because then this would have ended a long time ago. But when I play the game and see the evidence staring me dead in the face it's kinda hard to just take your words at face value. Or any value, for that matter.

I leave it at that. This argument died as soon as you started playing the same old "I AM AN EXPERT ALTHOUGH I CLAIM NOT TO BE, LET ME WRITE A PARAGRAPH ON WHY" tirade.

seems relevant

This thread needs more Tribes.

Oh my god, I love tribes.

LMFAO thats the best thing I've seen all day.... ahh man I can't wait to play TF2 tonight!

the best ones are the gay *** console ones with autoaim because they make me feel empowered

What are doing playing CS:S anyway when a certain "thing" needs fixing.