PS, the reason why it's an advantage to be in debt is because thats how creditors make money.

You can get much more competative rates and options by having a little debt.

The interest on certain kinds of debt is also tax deductable. Usually big stuff like loans. You can usually make back most of the money you would have paid on interest on your tax return. However, most people are retarded and just waste their return instead of putting it back where it came out of.

I call this the "why are you *****ing" cycle.

You can already get way more loans than is wise with out boosting your credit. Paying 20+ APR on credit card loans to get credit is a bad idea, especially since most people with little enough credit to worry about it shouldn't be getting into big loans in the first place.

Dude, you can get rates as low as 13-14% on a starter card with a tiny limit.

I know, because I did.

That's still a huge interest rate. I mean, there might be a very few situations where you keep a tiny, tiny bit a credit card debt to rack up some interest quick, but paying 15% on a loan to generate credit to get in even more debt is a bad idea, especially for someone who's just starting out. You pretty much want to avoid as much debt as possible especially in this economy.

I mean, I hear of people who have out of control credit card debt all the time. I never hear of people with too little interest and can't get enough loans. Companies are not nearly strict enough about extending credit.

He's not talking about carrying a massive balance, dude.

I know, but it really easy to get behind. Keeping a hundred bucks in there might help in some situations, but to me the risk of slipping up getting hit with fees ect, just isn't worth it to me. I could see doing that if I just got out of college and had a really good job and wanted a house, but my point is, for most situations you really get credit fast enough as it is.

It really isn't.

My first credit card was like 15% apr on credit transactions. (Cash advance APR was monumental, cash advances are retarded anyways)


15% / 12 months is .0125% monthly interest.

I had no yearly or monthly fees.

Keeping a debt of like $100 for six months and making minimum payments (on purpose) I was paying $1.25 cents, a month in interest.

Interest is really only a kick in the balls once you get up over a certain point and you have MASSIVE DEBT.




Not having good credit is RETARDED. I suppose in the case of an emergency, because you're richy mc-rich guy you can just pay out of pocket for say an expensive surgical procedure.

Us lay folk don't have as many options. Sure they don't charge interest on your hospital bills, but what about all the work you missed? And the medicine? Etc.

Thats alot of ****ing money you just don't have on hand.

Having good credit is ESSENTIAL because it gives you access to large sums of money you don't have on hand in a very small amount of time.

Credit is something you have to establish and maintain. The quicker you can do it, the younger you are when you do it, the better off you'll be.

Fact of the matter is in America you don't have access to ANYTHING AWESOME without good credit.

****, with bad credit you can't even find ****ty apartments you can barely afford because they don't want your no-paying *** around!



Those people are retards with no self control who shouldn't be in charge of coordinating their own finances because THEY are the ones that are ****ing over the economy.

Getting credit faster != Not getting credit at all, which is what you said. And as far as I can tell it's not nearly fast enough to be worth it.

Besides, you're basically PAYING for better credit, which is just stupid.

I'd much prefer to save up my own cash to buy stuff. Including property. I hate owing stuff.

It's going to take you a while to save up $40,000-$500,000 especially if you're paying rent on the place you're currently living and the car you're currently driving.

Have fun living at your parents house for years to come.

Well uh durr.

The interest is trivial compared to what I'd pay on something like a mortgage.

Point is, when I'm ready for a large loan (Which will be soon) I'll be netting much lower interest, and paying less. (Because I have a good credit history, and because the interest on the loan(s) I need are tax deductable)

But you act as if I wouldn't??? I can get a real low interest rate now also. It's really not as fast as you think, if I already have good credit just paying off the bill every month.

How many people do that before they get a student loan? Not many.


Like I said, you also get better rates when you've shown that you aren't Johnny Perfect. Because banks have NO REAL INTEREST IN JOHNNY PERFECT.

They want to dazzle Alfred McDumbass with lower numbers and more stringent rules because they think he'll **** himself up.

Happydud is a Jew listen to him

stereotypes hurr

Actually Steven knows a lot about finance, listen to him. If he posts that is.

You can argue all this crap 'til you're blue in the face. The fact of the matter is, I'm a person, not a number.

It's quite the sophisticated con artistry, to convince the public at large they need your borderline-usurious services (credit card company) or they won't have a normal lives. It's pretty obvious the real estate industry and the credit card companies colluded to force us into their little game. You've also got retarded small businesses subscribing to credit rating companies and treating us like subhumans just to reduce their bottom lines. Well I don't dance just because some random corporate fraudster tells me to dance. Humans have owned their dwellings and transportation long before credit scores and they will long after we've shaken this pox upon our dignity.

Okay Freelancer, how do you plan on buying a house? In cash? I'd love to see that sale.

I'm going merchant marine, paid room and board + good money. I'll have enough saved up to buy property 5 years from now.

Uhmmm yeah how old are credit scores? 20 years? Christ.

This isn't 1984.

You aren't Winston Smith.



Stop being such a bleeding heart tin foil hat baby.

Maybe if you went outside more than once a year and didn't live with your parents (your mom is hot) you'd understand that YES, GOOD CREDIT ACTUALLY DOES ****ING MATTER.

I don't live with my parents.

I go outside more than once a year.

I understand that good credit actually matters. I'm arguing that it shouldn't. Our society is way too obsessed with recording every ****ing thing you do and then any time you want to do something, they drag out your list and find whatever they can to prevent you from doing it.

Well would you want a child predator working at a daycare?


Would you want to give someone tens of thousands of dollars for a car they couldn't or won't pay back?

So I guess we should start recording everything people eat, and if someone with a poor 'fatty rating' tries to eat at McDonald's, they will be denied services. Sorry Rob, I understand it's good for business but damn can't I have a little privacy? It just seems over the top to me.

I mean ****, if I don't pay you then sue me. That's one of the few legitimate uses of courts anymore.

It wouldn't matter if everyone was exactly the same. It's not a two dimensional world where the people are good and corporations are always evil; There is no way of telling if certain clients are out to cheat people or just generally incompetent so atleast numbers can provide a clue. I wouldn't be so irritated by the cost of insurance if it didn't keep going up due to people committing insurance fraud and bull****.

Be realistic, is there any decent and effective way of keeping track of people when it comes to giving them large sums of money other than numbers and financial data? People embezzle cash, people forge information and people scam businesses. You can't just label Joe as a "seems like a nice guy" when he is Joe from a population of millions and millions of people.

Where as my examples were legitimate and realistic, yours is surely one of the more DURRR things you've ever posted.

I shouldn't have to think of effective ways to commit mass invasion of privacy..

Oh I see how this game is going to be played. Someone says a statement and you take it to the extremes.

I say "record-keeping" and you say "an orwellian social oppression of personal identity".


I say our commercial society is in fact a tasty cantaloupe. Your turn.

Dude, the real estate industry's been around a LOT LONGER than credit industries have in any way/shape/form. Credit just lets you spend cash you otherwise wouldn't have for a small fee. This comes in handy for large expenditures--a house, a car, a nice tv, what have you. You don't like it? Do what you'd normally have to do. Save up the money and pay up front. That's how it would go without credit, that's how you would do it in any alternate universe, so why are you *****ing? This isn't an invasion of privacy, isn't some collusion to destroy you, it's just an alternative form of money made to help people live their lives better. Some people **** that chance up.


Dorms don't really count, and neither do apartments. That's actually yet ANOTHER form of credit--you're paying over time but with no penalty. 350 a month on a 2100 dollar, 6 month lease for example. You can actually pay up front the entire lease amount if you want--all they care about is the end result.


Arguing against credit is :downswords:. If you don't want it, don't use it. There are a few instances where it's key, but you can pay cash on a house just as easily as you can get a loan. It just takes a longer amount of time. And it's the only alternative to using credit.


Yeah, but then we'd have new court cases for people suing others every HOUR. And people could continue to default on payments with no penalty. This way, there's repercussions for your actions, the courts aren't clogged with MORE idiotic tripe, and business owners have a little security.

If you still have any doubts about the efficacy or veracity of my claims, ask your mother. I've given her credit advice on several occassions.

It's amazing that you use the internet given you paranoid, invasion of privacy, recording everything rant.

Yoshi, I guess I should clarify a bit. If you don't like the terms of the loan/credit card then don't use it. I agree wholeheartedly. The problem I have is if it becomes difficult for people to just find a place to live, which it increasingly is.

I was in the situation myself. I was living in an expensive-*** hotel while I was trying to find a place to live.

Those days were a hellish flurry of "no, I DON'T have a co-signer, you idiot" and "No I haven't been at my current job for more than 2 years" and "*Sigh*, yes I'll submit to a credit check." And then the calls denying me because I don't meet those ridiculous requirements. God I can't tell you how hopeless I felt after those calls. Luckily, I was able to find a single landlord that treats me like a person. It's great, he acts like he WANTS my business. And, *gasp*, despite my minimal credit history, I pay rent on time and I haven't trashed the place.

You're a furry like Reid.

Yeah, it's pretty freaking ridiculous that a landlord would want to know if a potential tenant has a history of paying his or her bills on time because that sure doesn't have any obvious applications to paying rent on a monthly basis or anything like that. Oh, wait . . .

Freelancer is just mad because he doesn't have credit, and he doesn't have any friends so he got burned on a co-signer.

Screw anyone who wants a cosigner. I wouldn't ask anybody to do that, it's not fair to them at all.

Your mom never co-signed all your papers huh.

Freelancer, if it wasn't for credit these days so, so, so many businesses would be a helluva lot more expensive. Why would they be more expensive? Because they would have no idea if a tenant was a waste of life or a trustworthy payer. And thus, when they get burned (and it happens quite often), they're forced to raise the rates to stay in the green.

It's not about being nice. If you hate credit, hate the people who cause it to be necessary: the people. Do not hate the landlords who are trying to, you know, run a business. Oh, and suck it up and get some credit while you're at it, instead of complaining about how you can't find a place to live.

Can't have been that expensive. Hotels often ask for a credit card so that they can force you to pay for various things (damage, pay-per-view, mini-bar, etc.) and, as I've gathered, you don't want Satan's plastic anywhere near you.

If you don't need a credit card, don't get one. If you need a credit card, seek budget counselling and don't get one.

You'll be better off if you never borrow money and never build a credit score with the possible exception of a mortgage. A good credit score only tells lenders that you like to borrow money and pay interest.

A credit score is not required for things such as home mortgages because a reputable lender can manually underwrite the loan.

If you absolutely must have a card, look for a no monthly fee card. Don't worry about the interest rate because you should plan to pay the bill off every month during the grace period. You only ever really get "good" interest rates after you have a proven history of paying people interest on loans. Usually for crap you don't need to begin with.

^ That advice is stupid.

Don't follow it.

okay, motel or whatever. It was a seedy place that couldn't give a **** how you pay.