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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Want the government to tell you what to eat?
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Want the government to tell you what to eat?
2008-07-25, 5:43 PM #1
http://www.reuters.com/article/healthNews/idUSN2531857020080725

We're getting there... :carl:
woot!
2008-07-25, 5:52 PM #2
so banning things that are bad for you is bad?
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
2008-07-25, 5:54 PM #3
Yes.
2008-07-25, 6:09 PM #4
Yep.
2008-07-25, 6:18 PM #5
To be fair, trans fats are like poison.

Also, it was already banned in New York or something like that. I can't remember the details.
2008-07-25, 6:20 PM #6
Originally posted by Anovis:
To be fair, trans fats are like poison.


So is alcohol, prescription drugs, over-the-counter drugs, smoke, water and just about anything else you can consume in excess.
2008-07-25, 6:24 PM #7
Originally posted by IRG SithLord:
So is alcohol, prescription drugs, over-the-counter drugs, smoke, water and just about anything else you can consume in excess.


and the thing that drives me up the wall is that those don't get banned because people will resent and revolt on an issue like that. food being banned under the guise of being good for you is okay because you can always eat something else, however you can't smoke something else if its banned.

i don't ****ing care what you are banning, you are just making my life have less choice
Holy soap opera Batman. - FGR
DARWIN WILL PREVENT THE DOWNFALL OF OUR RACE. - Rob
Free Jin!
2008-07-25, 6:26 PM #8
Originally posted by IRG SithLord:
So is alcohol, prescription drugs, over-the-counter drugs, smoke, water and just about anything else you can consume in excess.


...uh huh. Yeah. Which is why we have laws regulating such things.

Anyways, as mentioned in the article and a followup of what I previously stated, I found this:

Originally posted by "[URL=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_fat:
Wikipedia[/URL]"]Local regulation

Some US cities are acting to reduce consumption of trans fats. In May 2005, Tiburon, California, became the first American city where all restaurants voluntarily cook with trans fat-free oils.[81] Montgomery County, Maryland approved a ban on partially hydrogenated oils, becoming the first county in the nation to restrict trans fats.[82]

New York City has embarked on a campaign to reduce consumption of trans fats, noting that heart disease is the primary cause of resident deaths. This has included a Public education campaign (see trans fat pamphlet) and a request to restaurant owners to voluntarily eliminate trans fat from their offerings.[83] Finding that the voluntary program was not successful, New York City's Board of Health has solicited public comments on a proposal to ban artificial trans fats in restaurants.[84] The board voted to ban trans fat in restaurant food on December 5, 2006. New York is the first large US city to strictly limit trans fats in restaurants. Restaurants were barred from using most frying and spreading fats containing artificial trans fats above 0.5 g per serving on July 1, 2007, and will have to meet the same target in all of their foods by July 1, 2008.[85]

Philadelphia also recently passed a ban on trans fats. Philadelphia's City Council voted unanimously to pass a ban on February 8, 2007, which was signed into law on February 15, 2007, by Mayor John F. Street.[86][87] By September 1, 2007, eateries must cease frying food in trans fats. A year later, trans fat must not be used as an ingredient in commercial kitchens. The law does not apply to prepackaged foods sold in the city. On October 10, 2007, the Philadelphia City Council approved the use of trans-fats by small bakeries throughout the city. [88]

Albany County of New York passed a ban on trans fats. The ban was adopted after a unanimous vote by the county legislature on May 14, 2007. The decision was made after New York City's decision, but no plan has been put into place. Legislators received a letter from Rick J. Sampson, president and CEO of the New York State Restaurant Association, calling on them to "delay any action on this issue until the full impact of the New York City ban is known."

San Francisco officially asked its restaurants to stop using trans fat in January 2008. The voluntary program will grant a city decal to restaurants that comply and apply for the decal.[89] Legislators say the next step will be a mandatory ban.

Chicago also considered a ban on oils containing trans fats for large chain restaurants, and finally settled on a partial ban on oils and posting requirements for fast food restaurants.[90][91]

On December 19, 2006, Massachusetts state representative Peter Koutoujian filed the first state level legislation that would ban restaurants from preparing foods with trans fats.[92] Similarly, Maryland, California, and Vermont are also considering statewide bans of trans fats.[93][94]

King County of Washington passed a ban on artificial trans fats effective February 1, 2009.[95]

On July 25, 2008, California became the first state to ban trans fats in restaurants.[96] Effective January 1, 2010, Californian restaurants will be prohibited from using oil, shortening, and margarine containing artificial trans fats in spreads or for frying, with the exception of deep frying donuts.[96][97][98] Donuts and other baked goods will be prohibited from containing artificial trans fats as of January 1, 2011.[96][97][98] Packaged foods, however, are not covered by the ban and will continue to be permitted to contain trans fats.[99]
2008-07-25, 6:26 PM #9
Quote:
and the thing that drives me up the wall is that those don't get banned because people will resent and revolt on an issue like that. food being banned under the guise of being good for you is okay because you can always eat something else, however you can't smoke something else if its banned.

i don't ****ing care what you are banning, you are just making my life have less choice


Yeah, I imagine there would be quite a revolt if you banned water. :P

Quote:
...uh huh. Yeah. Which is why we have laws regulating such things.


Oh really? Care to list them? I wasn't aware there was a law about drinking too much water.
2008-07-25, 6:28 PM #10
oh no, whatever will i do. all the places that don't use trans fats already now can't use trans fats. THE WORLD IS COLLAPSING AROUND ME, MY REALITY IS DISTORTED WHERE AM I AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
free(jin);
tofu sucks
2008-07-25, 6:32 PM #11
Originally posted by IRG SithLord:
Yeah, I imagine there would be quite a revolt if you banned water. :P



Oh really? Care to list them? I wasn't aware there was a law about drinking too much water.


Quality, not quantity, my friend, is just as relevant. Also notice I said regulate, not direct control. Perhaps you should understand such points clearly next time.

http://www.epa.gov/OGWDW/sdwa/30th/factsheets/understand.html

No matter. I understand your point clearly.
2008-07-25, 6:53 PM #12
Hopefully high fructose corn syrup is next. I'm also for fat taxes.
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2008-07-25, 6:57 PM #13
Originally posted by Anovis:
Quality, not quantity, my friend, is just as relevant. Also notice I said regulate, not direct control. Perhaps you should understand such points clearly next time.

http://www.epa.gov/OGWDW/sdwa/30th/factsheets/understand.html


I'm not discussing quality. I'm discussing quantity. That's what I've been discussing from the start. :P

There are tons of things that can be fatal or severely damage your health simply because of the amount that you consume.


Anyways, I think this ban is simply invasive. It inappropriately interferes with an individual's life (if they want to consume trans fats, so be it) and a business's day-to-day operations.
2008-07-25, 7:00 PM #14
Originally posted by landfish:
oh no, whatever will i do. all the places that don't use trans fats already now can't use trans fats. THE WORLD IS COLLAPSING AROUND ME, MY REALITY IS DISTORTED WHERE AM I AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH


Well, a vegetarian could have much of the same reaction if you banned all meat. :P
2008-07-25, 7:00 PM #15
won't anyone think of the bacon??!?
Holy soap opera Batman. - FGR
DARWIN WILL PREVENT THE DOWNFALL OF OUR RACE. - Rob
Free Jin!
2008-07-25, 7:00 PM #16
...

This is even more idiotic because, like everything else, we actually need certain amounts of trans-fat in our diet. Furthermore, there isn't even any conclusive support that trans-fats are 'bad'. Most of them - also like everything else - pass right through you. And it still seems to be the case that healthy people are healthy no matter what they eat! Certainly, if people eat cheese burgers every day, they'll probably be fat and unhealthy. But it's not because of trans-fats, it's because of the calories!

Also as someone tried to mention, all the big chain stores already switched to healthier alternatives. What you should be looking at is the packaged goods industry which uses trans-fats instead of oils because they don't leak out of that delicious oreo filling. D:
2008-07-25, 7:06 PM #17
Why do liberal people piss and moan about everything the government does, even when its actually good for you?

One thing is regulated, for the better, and everyone is like "OMFGMYRIGHTSWHINEWHINE!!".
"They're everywhere, the little harlots."
-Martyn
2008-07-25, 7:08 PM #18
this isn't regulation

this is banning
Holy soap opera Batman. - FGR
DARWIN WILL PREVENT THE DOWNFALL OF OUR RACE. - Rob
Free Jin!
2008-07-25, 7:11 PM #19
ok? good. lets ban cigarettes too while theyre at it. Why is everyone getitng so pissy? BAN THE ****! For god's sake. Or else you'll look like those mexican people from ohio in the other thread.

I hate it whne people take things to the extreme and it becomes asinine.
"They're everywhere, the little harlots."
-Martyn
2008-07-25, 7:12 PM #20
Originally posted by IRG SithLord:
So is alcohol, prescription drugs, over-the-counter drugs, smoke, water and just about anything else you can consume in excess.


Except the alcohol, prescription, and tobacco corporations are rich enough to get the government to reject most legislation restricting their use. There's not much of a trans fat industry to buy off the government on this issue.

And besides, obesity is a major epidemic in this country. It's one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, killer in America. The government has a responsibility to try and fight it.
2008-07-25, 7:13 PM #21
Originally posted by Onimusha.:
ok? good. lets ban cigarettes too while theyre at it. Why is everyone getitng so pissy? BAN THE ****! For god's sake. Or else you'll look like those mexican people from ohio in the other thread.

I hate it whne people take things to the extreme and it becomes asinine.


Cigarettes *should* be banned. And that's coming from a smoker.
2008-07-25, 7:21 PM #22
Originally posted by Onimusha.:
Why do liberal people piss and moan about everything the government does, even when its actually good for you?

One thing is regulated, for the better, and everyone is like "OMFGMYRIGHTSWHINEWHINE!!".


Actually, to be fair, it is conservatives that are more likely to "piss and moan" about such things. Especially in this case where liberal controlled governments are the ones most likely to be on this train.

I found out recently that they banned smoking in public areas in Tennessee, which is where one of the houses I own is and where I will spend some time after retiring from the Army. Anyway, even as a non-smoker, I found it refreshing to live in a state that still asked if you wanted smoking or non-. It is that way here in Kansas as well.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2008-07-25, 7:34 PM #23
Originally posted by JM:
...

This is even more idiotic because, like everything else, we actually need certain amounts of trans-fat in our diet. Furthermore, there isn't even any conclusive support that trans-fats are 'bad'. Most of them - also like everything else - pass right through you. And it still seems to be the case that healthy people are healthy no matter what they eat!


I'm afraid you're wrong sir.

From wikipedia.
Quote:
"Unlike other dietary fats, trans fats are neither essential nor salubrious[1] and, in fact, the consumption of trans fats increases one's risk of coronary heart disease[2] by raising levels of "bad" LDL cholesterol and lowering levels of "good" HDL cholesterol. [3] Health authorities worldwide recommend that consumption of trans fat be reduced to trace amounts. Trans fats from partially hydrogenated oils are more deleterious than naturally occurring oils."

I've edited this like 50x, but basically this is saying that trans fats ARE bad for you. They are designed so that Mcdonald's CEO can save a few cents on every burger and fry he sells. The only fat known to raise levels of bad cholesterol and lower the good cholesterol!

I did a speech on the Fast Food Industry about 8 months ago, and one of the articles I used indicated from a study that 0% of trans fats should be consumed. In other words The body does not need transfats, it does need fats, but not transfats!
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2008-07-25, 7:52 PM #24
Originally posted by Onimusha.:
Why do liberal people piss and moan about everything the government does, even when its actually good for you?

One thing is regulated, for the better, and everyone is like "OMFGMYRIGHTSWHINEWHINE!!".


Actually, liberals are for big government. Note: NYC is a leader in this effort, and it's pretty damn left leaning.

I don't know how it works out, but it seems silly because I personally don't know how much this ban will effect cardiovascular disease at large in the first place. There are studies of which I've read some impressive numbers, but they really don't cut the snuff for me, personally. Nutrition always has been a bit of a train wreck, with ideas changing on diet faily quickly.

On a purely rational level, it boils down to the costs of a ban versus spending on healthcare and loss of productivity as a consequence of trans fats. A quick google search has turned up diddly, so I won't even bother to estimate that. Another point along the same lines is if banning trans fats is the most efficient way to spend whatever amount of money it is, instead of other health efforts. There are a plethora of targets we could aim for in the battle against vascular disease, and I'm unsure that trans fats is the best one.

On a personal freedoms level, it's an annoying instance of a nanny state, with the inevitable question of "what are they gonna ban next"? They might as well ban sodas and juices, because they are just as nutritionally void while in moderate quantities greatly harming your health. Already, some local schools have banned sodas. I don't like being told how to eat, because with a modicum of self control I can enjoy my occasional sin and not die of a heart attack or diabetic complications, instead of the government saying I'm an idiot and I can't control myself.

Overall, I oppose banning anything really, because people should have the freedom to choose, with added weight of taking the consequences with that choice. A nanny state that holds your hand is an unattractive venture to me because it allows for decerebrate citizens.

Originally posted by Vincent Valentine:
And besides, obesity is a major epidemic in this country. It's one of the biggest, if not THE biggest, killer in America. The government has a responsibility to try and fight it.


This isn't about obesity, it's about vascular disease. A trans fat ban would not nick the problem as far as habitus is concerned, just the consequences of a diet that also leads to obesity.
2008-07-25, 7:56 PM #25
Originally posted by JM:
This is even more idiotic because, like everything else, we actually need certain amounts of trans-fat in our diet. Furthermore, there isn't even any conclusive support that trans-fats are 'bad'. Most of them - also like everything else - pass right through you.
What? The National Academy of Science concluded that "from a nutritional standpoint, the consumption of trans fatty acids results in considerable potential harm but no apparent benefit."
2008-07-25, 7:57 PM #26
Trans fats are ARTIFICIAL.
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2008-07-25, 7:58 PM #27
Originally posted by mb:
so banning things that are bad for you is bad?


Yeah.

I know as a ban-happy admin on a star wars message board, this is a hard thing for you to hear, but it's true.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-07-25, 7:59 PM #28
Originally posted by Veger:
Trans fats are ARTIFICIAL.


Who are you talking to?
2008-07-25, 8:05 PM #29
I guess JM, I really felt like challenging the "we need trans-fats in our bodies" thing.

It's also a generic warning for everyone, so.
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2008-07-25, 8:18 PM #30
There is absolutely, positively no reason why we should be using trans fat.
"If you watch television news, you will know less about the world than if you just drink gin straight out of the bottle."
--Garrison Keillor
2008-07-25, 8:24 PM #31
Originally posted by Vincent Valentine:
Cigarettes *should* be banned. And that's coming from a smoker.


Yes. That will work just about as well as the Marijuana ban. People are all for personal freedoms but when the see big corporations making money off of those freedoms all the sudden they need to be banned. You think Camel ect. won't be the first to start selling Cannabis when it's made legal?

The point is, the government should not step to make all of us suffer for the lack of self control of a few. If they ruin their lives because they can't restrain their own self destructiveness, screw 'em. It's not society's job to make people act in their own best interest. If a person weigh's the risk and decides that it's worth it, who are we to tell them otherwise? People can be stupid or they may decide that somethings are simply worth the risk. One person's definition of a good life is probably different than the next. Why does longevity necessarily have to be everyone's goal?

Originally posted by fishstickz:
There is absolutely, positively no reason why we should be using trans fat.


What if you're health and enjoy them in moderation?
2008-07-25, 8:28 PM #32
Originally posted by fishstickz:
There is absolutely, positively no reason why we should be using trans fat.


There are reasons.

Just not health reasons.
2008-07-25, 8:29 PM #33
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
If a person weigh's the risk and decides that it's worth it, who are we to tell them otherwise? People can be stupid or they may decide that somethings are simply worth the risk.


The problem is that most people aren't educated very well about how to eat healthy.
2008-07-25, 8:33 PM #34
I am somewhat perplexed as to why people are up in arms about this. Do individuals actually siphon trans fat from fast foods to enjoy? I thought people bought french fries to, you know, enjoy french fries. I don't know one sane person who goes to fast food joints because of a love of a particular type of unsaturated fat or anyone who should be losing sleep because of a bizarre dependency on this stuff. Major companies have been actively lowering or even eliminating the trans fat content of their food for years, and it's doubtful that anyone noticed a significant, or any, change in taste. It's true that trans fat help certain products to have a longer shelf life, but California isn't banning that.

It's funny that "trans fat" has become a public word-of-the-day only after the government started to make a deal of it. As an unreasonably harmful ingredient that has been pretty much phased out in major fast food chains these days, it's getting an interesting amount of defense. If people are so worked up on the government trying to obviously destroy the everyman's consumerism life, why not protest for something like the complete removal of fluoridation of water? Seems like a more suitable cause, no?

If they banned sugar in soft drinks, I can definitely see the problem. If they banned the cream in Twinkies due to it being unhealthy, I can see the issue. Alternatives have been found for trans fat. You don't need to cook with the stuff in order to make a hamburger or french fries, if anything, removing the stuff might even bring in more customers after the fear of the "deadly trans fat killer" has been splashed about. I doubt there will be a domino effect and more ingredients will be banned left and right as long as taste buds and stomachs aren't involved in diplomacy.

But honestly, the bigger matter is why the federal government of California is wasting so much time and money trying to battle this "crisis". Shouldn't people be more concerned that this seems more for PR image of "we care about you" than your ability to eat unsaturated crap-laced food? Maybe a complete ban is over the top when it should be no more than a regulation, but its California.
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-----------------------------@%
2008-07-25, 8:35 PM #35
Originally posted by ECHOMAN:
But honestly, the bigger matter is why the federal government of California is wasting so much time and money trying to battle this "crisis". Shouldn't people be more concerned that this seems more for PR image of "we care about you" than your ability to eat unsaturated crap-laced food?


I'm more concerned over how the State of California feels it is their place to regulate what restaurants are permitted to serve. I have a big problem with the "the government knows what's best for you" mentality.
woot!
2008-07-25, 8:36 PM #36
People are upset because it's the government telling them how to live.

But it's not. It's the government telling companies not to feed people ****.
2008-07-25, 8:38 PM #37
The government should just mandate that restaurants flag food with a warning that it contains trans fat. People will be turned off by this, and restaurants will have to replace it to keep business up.
2008-07-25, 8:39 PM #38
This is what comes from having a champion bodybuilder for a governor.
COUCHMAN IS BACK BABY
2008-07-25, 8:53 PM #39
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:


What if you're health and enjoy them in moderation?


I have no problem with fried food, or whatever people want to do, but trans fats can easily be replaced with a multitude of other fats or oils, that are healthier, and taste exactly the same.
"If you watch television news, you will know less about the world than if you just drink gin straight out of the bottle."
--Garrison Keillor
2008-07-25, 9:52 PM #40
Originally posted by TimeWolfOfThePast:
Hopefully high fructose corn syrup is next. I'm also for fat taxes.

High fructose corn syrup is in no way worse for you than any other sugar. It's literally a myth made up by the sugar industry to leverage sales of products that use cane sugar. Same thing as the myths about artificial sweeteners causing cancer (sodium saccharine withstanding).
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