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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Beware of Change
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Beware of Change
2008-11-02, 5:55 PM #1
This is a letter written in to the Richmond Times-Dispatch about Obama's campaign for change. There are arguments it presents about the points, but I think it is still an interesting read.

Quote:
Dear Editor, Times-Dispatch:

'Each year I get to celebrate Independence Day twice. On June 30 I celebrate my independence day, and on July 4 I celebrate America's. This year is special, because it marks the 40th anniversary of my independence.

'On June 30, 1968, I escaped Communist Cuba, and a few months later, I was in the United States to stay. That I happened to arrive in Richmond on Thanksgiving Day is just part of the story, but I digress.
'I've thought a lot about the anniversary this year. The election-year rhetoric has made me think a lot about Cuba and what transpired there. In the late 1950s, most Cubans thought Cuba needed a change, and they were right. So when a young leader came along, every Cuban was at least receptive.

'When the young leader spoke eloquently and passionately and denounced the old system, the press fell in love with him. They never questioned who his friends were or what he really believed in. When he said he would help the farmers and the poor and bring free medical care and education to all, everyone followed.
When he said he would bring justice and equality to all, everyone said, 'Praise the Lord.' And when the young leader said, 'I will be for change and I'll bring you change,' everyone yelled, 'Viva Fidel!'

'But nobody asked about the change, so by the time the executioner's guns went silent, the people's guns had been taken away. By the time everyone was equal, they were equally poor, hungry, and oppressed. By the time everyone received their free education, it was worth nothing.

By the time the press noticed, it was too late, because they were now working for him. By the time the change was finally implemented, Cuba had been knocked down a couple of notches to Third-World status. By the time the change was over, more than a million people had taken to boats, rafts, and inner tubes. You can call those who made it ashore anywhere else in the world the most fortunate Cubans. And now I'm back to the beginning of my story.

'Luckily, we would never fall in America for a young leader who promised change without asking, what change? How will you carry it out? What will it cost America?

'Would we?'


Manuel Alvarez, Jr.


And if you can't decipher that, it is not saying that that Obama is really a secret meanie dictator in the making. Instead, the article is a brief commentary on the complexity of "change."
"Flowers and a landscape were the only attractions here. And so, as there was no good reason for coming, nobody came."
2008-11-02, 6:19 PM #2
I wil never vote for someone who will deny me the right to own a fully-automatic AK-47.
Peace is a lie
There is only passion
Through passion I gain strength
Through strength I gain power
Through power I gain victory
Through victory my chains are broken
The Force shall set me free
2008-11-02, 7:09 PM #3
This reminds me of the e-mail the Pennsylvania Republican Party sent out to jews warning that Obama might bring another holocaust.
2008-11-02, 7:13 PM #4
Originally posted by The_Lost_One:
I wil never vote for someone who will deny me the right to own a fully-automatic AK-47.

If you voted for bush, I will lol.

But it is some food for thought.
D E A T H
2008-11-02, 7:18 PM #5
I can't own a fully automatic AK-47, neither can anyone around here. Worked pretty well so far.
2008-11-02, 7:34 PM #6
hey guy, i'm gonna have you say it DIDN'T work so well in terms of the 'getting to own an ak47' objective now did it


no it didn't

also obama holocaust


also

barack hussein castro obama
2008-11-02, 7:34 PM #7
I thought it was illegal to have a fully automatic weapon.. but assault weapons are legal (for now anyway)
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2008-11-02, 7:45 PM #8
yeah my bad....

semi-autos are legal assault weapons, don't take those away.

and yes i voted for Bush (the 2nd term) mainly cause john kerry ticked me off (can't remember what he said, but it was something to do with the military)

IF i vote, i'll be voting for Mccain, I did not watch the debates, so I really have no clue what either person is about, but I know Mccain was a POW for this country, and will probably do better things for our military than Obama will.
Peace is a lie
There is only passion
Through passion I gain strength
Through strength I gain power
Through power I gain victory
Through victory my chains are broken
The Force shall set me free
2008-11-02, 7:47 PM #9
Those are good points, Bobbert! Fidel Castro and Obama are the only politicians ever in the history of the world to speak well and criticize the incumbent government, and thus the connection is very obvious and meaningful! You've truly opened my eyes. I was going to vote for McCain anyway, but now I'll probably vote for him twice.
2008-11-02, 7:49 PM #10
Originally posted by The_Lost_One:
yeah my bad....

semi-autos are legal assault weapons, don't take those away.

and yes i voted for Bush (the 2nd term) mainly cause john kerry ticked me off (can't remember what he said, but it was something to do with the military)

IF i vote, i'll be voting for Mccain, I did not watch the debates, so I really have no clue what either person is about, but I know Mccain was a POW for this country, and will probably do better things for our military than Obama will.

That's your problem, you're thinking about military, that is eating most of your funds, while your country is going into an economical hell.
Last edited by mb; today at 10:55 AM.
2008-11-02, 7:51 PM #11
Originally posted by CaveDemon:
That's your problem, you're thinking about military, that is eating most of your funds, while your country is going into an economical hell.


Exactly. We could keep our troops in America where they belong and treat them three times better than they're being treated now and we could still save tons and tons of money.. No one's going to ****ing invade America for god's sake
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-11-02, 7:51 PM #12
Originally posted by Wuss:
Those are good points, Bobbert! Fidel Castro and Obama are the only politicians ever in the history of the world to speak well and criticize the incumbent government, and thus the connection is very obvious and meaningful! You've truly opened my eyes. I was going to vote for McCain anyway, but now I'll probably vote for him twice.


Now that your eyes are open, you should use them to see what the article is actually saying. :colbert:
"Flowers and a landscape were the only attractions here. And so, as there was no good reason for coming, nobody came."
2008-11-02, 7:51 PM #13
Ayn Rand is posting from the grave, isn't she?
ᵗʰᵉᵇˢᵍ๒ᵍᵐᵃᶥᶫ∙ᶜᵒᵐ
ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2008-11-02, 7:52 PM #14
**** Ayn Rand.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-11-02, 7:53 PM #15
Originally posted by The_Lost_One:
I did not watch the debates, so I really have no clue what either person is about, but I know Mccain was a POW for this country, and will probably do better things for our military than Obama will.

:carl:
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2008-11-02, 8:00 PM #16
Originally posted by The_Lost_One:
IF i vote, i'll be voting for Mccain, I did not watch the debates, so I really have no clue what either person is about, but I know Mccain was a POW for this country, and will probably do better things for our military than Obama will.


Are you serious?
2008-11-02, 8:04 PM #17
Originally posted by The_Lost_One:
IF i vote, i'll be voting for Mccain, I did not watch the debates, so I really have no clue what either person is about, but I know Mccain was a POW for this country, and will probably do better things for our military than Obama will.


This, friends, is the problem with democracy: uninformed electorates.
Cordially,
Lord Tiberius Grismath
1473 for '1337' posts.
2008-11-02, 8:08 PM #18
Er. It's pretty clear that, yes, McCain is more supportive of the military.
2008-11-02, 8:09 PM #19
Originally posted by The_Lost_One:
IF i vote, i'll be voting for Mccain, I did not watch the debates, so I really have no clue what either person is about, but I know Mccain was a POW for this country, and will probably do better things for our military than Obama will.


Lol.
I can't wait for the day schools get the money they need, and the military has to hold bake sales to afford bombs.
2008-11-02, 8:15 PM #20
You know what? I'm going to change my vote to the candidate who will be worse for the economy.

[http://www.oftwominds.com/photos07/retail-sq-ft.png]

The sooner the stores fail, the better.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-11-02, 8:34 PM #21
Originally posted by The_Lost_One:
IF i vote, i'll be voting for Mccain, I did not watch the debates, so I really have no clue what either person is about, but I know Mccain was a POW for this country, and will probably do better things for our military than Obama will.


Fail
$do || ! $do ; try
try: command not found
Ye Olde Galactic Empire Mission Editor (X-wing, TIE, XvT/BoP, XWA)
2008-11-02, 8:39 PM #22
Originally posted by The_Lost_One:
IF i vote, i'll be voting for Mccain, I did not watch the debates, so I really have no clue what either person is about, but I know Mccain was a POW for this country, and will probably do better things for our military than Obama will.


Please tell me your tongue is firmly planted in-cheek. :colbert:
DO NOT WANT.
2008-11-02, 9:01 PM #23
Originally posted by Wuss:
Those are good points, Bobbert! Fidel Castro and Obama are the only politicians ever in the history of the world to speak well and criticize the incumbent government, and thus the connection is very obvious and meaningful! You've truly opened my eyes. I was going to vote for McCain anyway, but now I'll probably vote for him twice.

I think the point is "don't follow the masses, and question everything", which as any budding armchair politician knows is the standard fare ;)

I'm not saying I agree with any of the points against Barrack, but the parallels do seem to at least tell me maybe one should question more things before jumping ahead of themselves.
D E A T H
2008-11-02, 9:08 PM #24
Originally posted by Dj Yoshi:
I'm not saying I agree with any of the points against Barrack, but the parallels do seem to at least tell me maybe one should question more things before jumping ahead of themselves.


I didn't think it was possible for so many words to mean so little.

Proven wrong again. :)
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2008-11-02, 9:43 PM #25
Originally posted by Z@NARDI:
I thought it was illegal to have a fully automatic weapon..


no

to give the same short version of the long answer i gave in another thread... if your state and local laws don't get in the way you can legally own a fully automatic firearm if you have the cash
eat right, exercise, die anyway
2008-11-02, 9:44 PM #26
Originally posted by Freelancer:
I didn't think it was possible for so many words to mean so little.

Proven wrong again. :)

...right back at ya?
D E A T H
2008-11-02, 10:05 PM #27
Originally posted by Freelancer:
You know what? I'm going to change my vote to the candidate who will be worse for the economy.

[http://www.oftwominds.com/photos07/retail-sq-ft.png]

The sooner the stores fail, the better.


US total area: 9,826,630 SQ KM
UK total area: 244,820 SQ KM

Guess you'll need more stores to cover that large and spread out a population, huh?

Anyway, buyin' is awesome! ;)
Warhead[97]
2008-11-02, 10:05 PM #28
it's not like my vote is going to count anyway! i live in pennsylvania, democrat state. :D so why should i even bother voting?
Peace is a lie
There is only passion
Through passion I gain strength
Through strength I gain power
Through power I gain victory
Through victory my chains are broken
The Force shall set me free
2008-11-02, 10:06 PM #29
Originally posted by CaveDemon:
That's your problem, you're thinking about military, that is eating most of your funds, while your country is going into an economical hell.


If you do a simple google search you will find that social spending is by far the greatest expense of the federal government. So, by your logic, your statement should be reworded to say:

"The problem is you're thinking about the military while social spending is eating most of your funds while your country is going into an economical hell."
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2008-11-03, 4:54 AM #30
Quote:
Guess you'll need more stores to cover that large and spread out a population, huh?


That's why the chart is area per capita, not total.

Though it's probably not an issue with America using too much space, but with those small european countries not having enough space.
2008-11-03, 7:49 AM #31
cubans are ****ing filthy rats. they are womanly sodomites and cowards
:master::master::master:
2008-11-03, 8:10 AM #32
Originally posted by Wuss:
Those are good points, Bobbert! Fidel Castro and Obama are the only politicians ever in the history of the world to speak well and criticize the incumbent government, and thus the connection is very obvious and meaningful! You've truly opened my eyes. I was going to vote for McCain anyway, but now I'll probably vote for him twice.


Of course Obama is not the only politician in history to criticize the incumbent government. But the extent to which his some of his disciples blindly follow him is outrageous, and THAT is what is dangerous, and THAT is what the article is pointing out. I saw someone make a comment about an "uninformed" voter above (i think regarding The Lost One's comment, which yeah, was pretty retarded). In my experience, Obama supporters that I've talked to more often than not have been abso-****in-lutely clueless with issues, but are still voting for him because he "STANDS FOR CHANGE!!!! CHANGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!". That worries me, to say the least. I personally don't think anything will happen just beacuse it's the nature of government not to get anything done, but the extent to which people follow him without knowning anything about him other than it's "trendy" to stand for change is scary.
"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"
2008-11-03, 8:54 AM #33
Originally posted by The_Lost_One:
it's not like my vote is going to count anyway! i live in pennsylvania, democrat state. :D so why should i even bother voting?

Um, maybe this is why we end up being blue? :huh: Vote. I was very surprised by my friends who didn't register. I don't even care who they would vote for.
Naked Feet are Happy Feet
:omgkroko:
2008-11-03, 8:57 AM #34
Originally posted by mscbuck:
In my experience, Obama supporters that I've talked to more often than not have been abso-****in-lutely clueless with issues, but are still voting for him because he "STANDS FOR CHANGE!!!! CHANGEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!". That worries me, to say the least. I personally don't think anything will happen just beacuse it's the nature of government not to get anything done, but the extent to which people follow him without knowning anything about him other than it's "trendy" to stand for change is scary.
Or the Obamanites that know nothing about Bush but bashing him
Holy soap opera Batman. - FGR
DARWIN WILL PREVENT THE DOWNFALL OF OUR RACE. - Rob
Free Jin!
2008-11-03, 9:00 AM #35
That's why I tell people that while I do feel we need change, I'm not really for the change that Obama would like to bring. Unfortunately, McCain isn't really about change at all. :(
Naked Feet are Happy Feet
:omgkroko:
2008-11-03, 9:01 AM #36
I'll vote for nucular holocaust. THAT is change you can believe in.
On a Swedish chainsaw: "Do not attempt to stop chain with your hands or genitals."
2008-11-03, 9:06 AM #37
I'm ready for this damn campaign to be over, shouldn't we know by now that politicians are liars? Obama can't/won't change anything, McCain can't/won't do anything he says either... so what? Life goes on.
Quote Originally Posted by FastGamerr
"hurr hairy guy said my backhair looks dumb hurr hairy guy smash"
2008-11-03, 9:21 AM #38
Originally posted by djwguitarman:
I'll vote for nucular holocaust. THAT is change you can believe in.


yeah, we got so many nukes why don't we freakin use em.
Peace is a lie
There is only passion
Through passion I gain strength
Through strength I gain power
Through power I gain victory
Through victory my chains are broken
The Force shall set me free
2008-11-03, 9:21 AM #39
zombies will rise before either one can fix or screw up the country so it's all a moot point

vote if you want... i'm building my zombie proof fortress
eat right, exercise, die anyway
2008-11-03, 9:36 AM #40
Originally posted by The_Lost_One:
IF i vote, i'll be voting for Mccain, I did not watch the debates, so I really have no clue what either person is about, but I know Mccain was a POW for this country, and will probably do better things for our military than Obama will.
[http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~msmith03/route66/illinois_trucker.jpg]
Dreams of a dreamer from afar to a fardreamer.
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