The problem is that every other country in the world except for the US does not want them to act as the "world police" that they do. Unfortunately this has already been stated above by someone else so it's kinda beating a dead horse but, there ARE reasons that your country doesn't have a good world image currently. This is one of them.

not trying to sound like a completely insensitive prick, however... if a country is under constant rocket fire by a neighboring country, it is ridiculous to expect them not to take measures (including decisive military strikes) to stop the attack. and when the side firing rockets purposefully sets up, what would be, military targets in the middle of urban areas, it is ridiculous to expect there to be no, or even few civilian casualties.
having said that israel does need to make sure that humanitarian aid is able to reach gaza.

Most of the casualties have been militants, and Hamas was placing weapons in civilian areas and then attacking Israel. Hamas either knew this was going to happen and wanted it to happen, is blatantly stupid, or probably both.

Um, wrong. My point is that civilians die in war even if they are not the target. Hitler would have won World War 2 if we didn't resort to strategic bombing, which by the way, killed millions of people. Was that right? Clearly some raids could not be justified, but many if not most of them were necessary to winning the war. Sometimes even if your intentions and cause are right you have to make difficult decisions that affect the lives of innocent people caught in the middle.

The fact that civilians are dieing doesn't necessarily mean that atrocities are taking place. War is a terrible thing which results in massive destruction and death. The idea that wars can and are fought as contained struggles with little or out side losses is stupid and wrong. Wars are very serious, and people should never forget that.

I don't really know enough to say weather Israel's attacks can be justified, but I'm certifiably not going to jump and the "omg people are dieing therefore Israel is bad" bandwagon.

The idea that war can ever be justified is ridiculous.

You sound like a war apologist.

Also, "the fact that civilians are dying doesn't necessarily mean atrocities are taking place"

wtf?

Hypothesis:

Country A is committing atrocities, such as genocide, in place X. Country B knows that the only way to stop country A is by taking military action, as country A does not respond to diplomacy. Backed by the support of the international community, country B decides to take action, and thus a war ensues.

Do you think this war would not be justified?

I believe, Krok, you left out the "Q.E.D." from your post.

You sound like a ***** ***** who had to become more liberal than is sensible because your mormon upbringing scarred you. Just because girls didnt talk to you in sunday school doesn't mean you need to base your reality on broadway musicals and 60s music.

Civilians dying does not (always) equal atrocities. Civilians being targeted always does.

So if a nation attacks your nation with the intent of conquering it and ethnically cleansing it, it would be wrong to fight back?

We did not seek to kill civilians specifically during World War 2, but hundreds of thousands of civilians died as a direct result of the actions that we had to take to win it. A blanket "war is bad" position is just as naive as the glorification war.

Again, why so much heat on Israel for attacking military targets, and in the process killing innocent civilians, when Hamaas' directive is clearly to outright kill civilians by means of car bombs, suicide bombers, etc etc.? At least Israel is going after military targets and not bombing Palestinian shopping malls for ****s and giggles. (and virgins)

War has never solved anything except for tyranny, slavery, oppression, fascism, nazism, genocides, and communism

I think because Israel is killing a lot more civilians than Hamas is and also have the political advantage of not being confined to ghettos and teargassed on the daily, so we hold them to a higher ethical standard

lol

It could be argued that the only reason that Hamas isn't killing more people is that Israel has been coming down so hard on them.

I mean, lets face it, if Israel was just out to kill people, The death tolls would be many digits higher.

I was born into a first world nation.

Yeah but look at it this way.

Palestinians are surrounded on all 4 sides by gates and military designed to keep them inside a small, third-world area with a pervasive lack of access to food and water.

This broods ill-will toward Israel. I sure would dislike Israel if I were born into those conditions.

It's an endless cycle. The only way to stop it is to start treating your neighbors respectfully and turn the other cheek for a generation while they understandably lash out. That is a true solution that will address the root of the problem.

The alternative will cause many unnecessary deaths for countless generations.

You're very naive to assume that these people will not use any resources against Israel, and other nations.

The solution is what U.N. is denying, a military occupation, coupled with your idea of fair treatment of neighbors.

A military occupation will ensure that people stay in order, if they don't, kill their resources.

These people need to understand, they need to stay in line and act like civilized people, and they aren't going to do this by just being told to do it, they have to be forced.

Sounds crude doesn't it? Well, I guarantee you, it will work. Will take many years, but it will work.

At first we can expect insurgency, just like in Iraq, it will grow, then go down, to the point where its not even a threat anymore. They will lose their taste for war and blood. These simple "slap" attacks just make em hide for a bit. Serious action is required.

Military occupation works so well in Iraq.

Unfortunately, in order to maintain this policy a broadly-supported government must remain in office for an extended period. This is not possible in present-day Israel because of the power the parliament has over government. The parliament represents the people, the majority of whom are flame-baited idiots who want an eye for an eye etc.

I say we divide Israel in to 3 separate colonies based on religious preference (Christian, Jewish & Muslim). We then supply all of them with an apocalyptic amount of ammunition. Next, we stage Armageddon. We make each colony think that their job is to exterminate the other colonies in order to secure their spot in heaven. Hell, you could even tell them that the people they're killing are also going to heaven, so they don't feel so bad about it. Then we simply sit back & watch generations & generations of the religious join this new version of the Crusades & eventually, hopefully, the beginning of the end of Monotheism.

And depopulate the earth whilst we're at it. Given the opportunity Religions will kill Religions til the end of time or theres no one left to kill in the name of god.

You can't just turn the cheek on rocket fire for an entire generation, especially considering that with out harassment, those attacks will scale quite rapidly.



You do realize Israel's population has a comparatively high percentage of atheists, right?

Wouldn't it be easier to just get a UN ban on religion?

wow! no offense, but this is possibly the single most ridiculous, apathetic, asinine, pacifist thing i have ever heard. this is not some tantrum throwing 2 year old were talking about. it is a (unfortunately) militant religious government that has publicly declared its wish to destroy another nation. they are not "understandably lashing out" by throwing stones and marching in the streets, they are firing rockets with the intent to kill Israelis, and they are. not something you can just "turn the other cheek" to and pretend its not happening.

i understand things suck, hard if you are a Palestinian in Gaza right now. but guess what, its the world they find themselves in at the moment. they are going to have to decide how they want to handle it. if they decide to try to handle it with violence, fine, thats their choice. since they have decided to attack israel with bombardments of rockets, israel is, and justifiably so, going to fight back.

wow, i use far too many commas...

that would still require the UN to effectively enforce something... good luck.

Do you have any idea how hypocritical that is?

Yes, I'm sure that the UN banning religion would make them stop believing.

I believe that was a joke.

If the UN could ever hold any authority rather then giving verbal handslaps and their seal of "world unapproval" which is somehow supposed to mean something, that would be funny. If they could do anything in general it would be amusing actually.

UN = Useless Nations.

They're more like the worlds country club, weither your in it or not, and weither they approve of you or not doesn't really matter in the scheme of things, its just social status.

If they ever did anything aside from squabbling and scoffing in their podiums I would be impressed.

Founded by them, in fact!


lolololol

Oh...uh...well so are you!

Oh yeah, banning religion will make everything ok. I guarantee you that this will start a third world war, and religion will win. These people will die for what they believe in, and the greater number, who do not believe that their purpose is here is to kill in the name of God, will recognize the threat as a legitimate reason to kill. You'll have a world wide genocide, one which you can't handle. A great number of American soldiers are religious, and if their right is threatened, they will kill for it, and kill those who threaten it.

If it was a joke, good, but if it wasn't you've got one of the worst ideas I've ever heard of.

On to Israel again. A military occupation to rebuild the government and put the people back in line, is the only solution I see. Its a long term solution, but its better than allowing more generations to grow up wanting to destroy a nation. The thing here is, religion should not be part of public education. Once this is removed, after a few years, while things are rebuilt and get better, things will change. Change will happen, through force. It takes time, guts, and a willing people.

No.

No amount of harshness can ever teach kindness.

Freelancer has the right idea, unfortunately, in this case, ignoring the threat isn't like ignoring a school bully. The bully doesn't go away and pick on someone else; he kills you. The only way this conflict will ever end is if one side if destroyed. Entirely destroyed.

One side is going to surrender once they realize, they are only dieing, and there can be no victory. This calls for a full scale war.

Touché old chap...

anyways, no matter who is doing terrible things to, or firing at, or bulldozing who's whatevers... it is incredibly... well stupid to expect the other side to turn a blind eye.

I can't believe how many of you are blaming Palestine.

hahaha a clever and valid response.

No one is blaming Palatine, they are blaming Hamas.

I can't believe how many of you think Hamas is worse than Israel.

Hamas IS worse than Israel

However, Israel is far better armed, far more politically powerful, and therefore far more able to enact their ******** policies

I was kidding. It was a sarcastic joke, but I should have clarified that. Sorry if I mislead anyone. I thought the Bible verse in my signature would point out that it's a joke.