Massassi Forums Logo

This is the static archive of the Massassi Forums. The forums are closed indefinitely. Thanks for all the memories!

You can also download Super Old Archived Message Boards from when Massassi first started.

"View" counts are as of the day the forums were archived, and will no longer increase.

ForumsDiscussion Forum → LHC might actually destroy the world after all (except not really) (gg fox news)
12
LHC might actually destroy the world after all (except not really) (gg fox news)
2009-01-27, 11:54 AM #1
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,483477,00.html
[quote=Fox News]Still worried that the Large Hadron Collider will create a black hole that will destroy the Earth when it's finally switched on this summer?

Um, well, you may have a point.

Three physicists have reexamined the math surrounding the creation of microscopic black holes in the Switzerland-based LHC, the world's largest particle collider, and determined that they won't simply evaporate in a millisecond as had previously been predicted.

Rather, Roberto Casadio of the University of Bologna in Italy and Sergio Fabi and Benjamin Harms of the University of Alabama say mini black holes could exist for much longer — perhaps even more than a second, a relative eternity in particle colliders, where most objects decay much faster.

Under such long-lived conditions, it becomes a race between how fast a black hole can decay — and how fast it can gobble up matter to grow bigger and prevent itself from decaying.

Casadio, Fabi and Harms think the black hole would lose out, and pass through the Earth or out of the atmosphere before it got to be a problem.

"We conclude that ... the growth of black holes to catastrophic size does not seem possible. Nonetheless, it remains true that the expected decay times are much longer (and possibly >> 1 second) than is typically predicted by other models," the three state in a brief paper posted at the scientific discussion Web site ArXiv.org.

FoxNews.com can think of a few other things that didn't seem possible once — the theory of continental drift, the fact that rocks fall from the sky, the notion that the Earth revolves around the sun, the idea that scientists could be horribly wrong.

We're also wondering how often the LHC might create individual black holes, since longer-lived ones have a greater chance of merging with each other, and, um, well, see ya.

If the worst comes to pass, and there's now a slightly greater chance that it might, at least it might explain why we've never heard from extraterrestrial civilizations: Maybe they built Large Hadron Colliders of their own.[/quote]
and if they were wrong about this, they could be wrong about...global warming! and evolution!11

gasp
2009-01-27, 12:06 PM #2
Wow. That's terrible.
Naked Feet are Happy Feet
:omgkroko:
2009-01-27, 12:33 PM #3
[CENTER]I've been waiting a long time for this moment,

ARE WE DEAD YET?! [/CENTER]
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2009-01-27, 12:34 PM #4
large hardon collider
2009-01-27, 12:39 PM #5
I give up with these soddening stories I really do...

99% of the time it's just a few physicists trying to get their names in the news because there is a round of funding coming up or they are just total crack-pots. In this case, it's funding.
People of our generation should not be subjected to mornings.

Rbots
2009-01-27, 12:46 PM #6
Originally posted by poley:
I give up with these soddening stories I really do...

99% of the time it's just a few physicists trying to get their names in the news because there is a round of funding coming up or they are just total crack-pots. In this case, it's funding.


You're gonna kill us!!!
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2009-01-27, 12:51 PM #7
Originally posted by Jon`C:
large hardon collider


That's just wrong. It made me laugh.
"Harriet, sweet Harriet - hard-hearted harbinger of haggis."
2009-01-27, 12:54 PM #8
Originally posted by Jep:
You're gonna kill us!!!


yeah stop it!!!
2009-01-27, 1:05 PM #9
Fox News fails, but that's nothing new.
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2009-01-27, 1:12 PM #10
But. Micro-blackholes, while they take up no space, still only have the mass of a single particle.

The idea of a micro-blackhole doesn't even make sense. Blackholes are blackholes because they have so much mass their gravity does not allow light to escape. How can something with the mass of a single particle possibly have enough gravity to be a blackhole?
2009-01-27, 1:59 PM #11
Originally posted by JM:
But. Micro-blackholes, while they take up no space, still only have the mass of a single particle.


Could be one very large particle....

----------------------------

Bit of math first

1 eV = 1.60 ×10^−19 J
1 KeV = 1.60 × 10^-16 J
1 MeV = 1.60 × 10^-13 J
1 GeV = 1.60 × 10^-10 J
1 TeV = 1.60 × 10^-7 J

For comparison,

a proton has a mass of ~938 MeV (three quarks, uud)
a top quark (the most massive particle we've seen) has a mass of ~173 GeV

----------------------------

the beam energy is going to be around 10 TeV at startup (instead of 14 TeV).

Now not all of that energy will go into creating a particle, colliding protons isn't a direct collision of particles (protons are made up of other bits), even so, we're expecting events to have a combined energy or around 2-3 TeV to mess around with for each "collision", some more some less, but 2-3 TeV is a good average I'd say.

it's feasible the collision energy could all go on to produce a single particle with very large mass (maybe all of the beam energy...), which is concentrated in a very very small region of space, enough to get to the mass density levels required for black holes. You don't have to have a lot of mass for a blackhole, it just has to be very dense, it's how they are formed in the first place.

The internal forces (fusion) within a sun produce a outward pressure (think it's called photon pressure...wiki it if ya like) that stops them collapsing in on themselves, once they run out of fuel a few things can happen which I won't go into, but one of them is where the mass collapses in on itself to form a black hole. It's not that it's gained mass, it's just that the mass it had has been condensed into such a small area.

Anyways....after the possible forming of a micro-blackhole my understanding of the theories goes ssooosh over my head, but all I do know is that we shouldn't worry about them. Micro-blackholes of those mass ranges are (theoretically) produced in the upper atmosphere and have been for millions, if not billions of years. They live for such a short period of time before they evaporate that they cannot gain enough mass to become stable and they'd need to gain a crap load from what I've heard.

So seriously, stop worrying.
People of our generation should not be subjected to mornings.

Rbots
2009-01-27, 2:49 PM #12
What the ****? Does this count as journalism these days?
Quote:
We're also wondering how often the LHC might create individual black holes, since longer-lived ones have a greater chance of merging with each other, and, um, well, see ya.


How the **** are we supposed to take anything seriously when it reads like it's been written by some angsty teenage girl?
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2009-01-27, 3:05 PM #13
Originally posted by poley:
I give up with these soddening stories I really do...

99% of the time it's just a few physicists trying to get their names in the news because there is a round of funding coming up or they are just total crack-pots. In this case, it's funding.


Yeah WHATEVER poley. All it takes is one giant man-eating black hole!
[01:52] <~Nikumubeki> Because it's MBEGGAR BEGS LIKE A BEGONI.
2009-01-27, 3:17 PM #14
They've really outdone themselves this time. This is probably the worst news story I've ever read on anything.
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2009-01-27, 3:17 PM #15
is poley a physicist?

2009-01-27, 5:00 PM #16
He's a black hole wrangler
2009-01-27, 5:01 PM #17
Originally posted by Mort-Hog:
How the **** are we supposed to take anything seriously when it reads like it's been written by some angsty teenage girl?

Sarah Palin is their new staff writer
2009-01-27, 5:04 PM #18
Originally posted by Jon`C:
large hardon collider


ACTIVATED as of this post
2009-01-27, 5:23 PM #19
Sorry but my large hardon ain't colliding with any other large hardon or any hardon at all!
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2009-01-27, 5:30 PM #20
SWORDFIGHT :hist101:
TAKES HINTS JUST FINE, STILL DOESN'T CARE
2009-01-27, 6:53 PM #21
Won't they fizzle out due to Hawking Radation anyway?
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2009-01-27, 7:26 PM #22
Fox News: Fair and Balanced Reporting Since... Uh... Always.... >.>

(Pro tip: hotlinked straight from foxnews.com:

[http://www.foxnews.com/i/new/fn-header.jpg]

I find this hilarious.)
My Parkour blog
My Twitter. Follow me!
2009-01-27, 8:08 PM #23
Originally posted by Jon`C:
large hardon collider


Funded by Bill Clinton? <_< >_>
2009-01-27, 8:59 PM #24
Originally posted by dalf:
Won't they fizzle out due to Hawking Radation anyway?
Yes. The physicists might be correct and these black holes might take a lot longer to evaporate than previously-predicted, but we've developed a fairly strong theoretical model for the decay of black holes. There simply isn't a high enough energy density on Earth for a black hole of this size to become self-sustaining.

Of course, being another piece of Fox News tripe the article whitewashed the fact that even the physicists making this claim are saying that it's not going to be a problem (and it won't be one). I don't really understand the whole doomsday culture in America. I also don't understand how any of you Americans can go through a whole day without punching at least 10 people in the face.
2009-01-27, 9:09 PM #25
I knew my "unwarranted hatred of Americans" detector was going off, glad I found the source. It's always somewhere! :carl:
Warhead[97]
2009-01-27, 9:09 PM #26
Originally posted by Jon`C:
I also don't understand how any of you Americans can go through a whole day without punching at least 10 people in the face.


smoke a lot of herb
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2009-01-27, 9:10 PM #27
secretly we want to see the end of the world...

personally i want to see it end with zombies
eat right, exercise, die anyway
2009-01-27, 9:21 PM #28
i want to see the sun explode in a super nova
Peace is a lie
There is only passion
Through passion I gain strength
Through strength I gain power
Through power I gain victory
Through victory my chains are broken
The Force shall set me free
2009-01-27, 11:02 PM #29
also this stuff is good

Quote:
um, well...

Quote:
and, um, well, see ya


qq
2009-01-27, 11:03 PM #30
also the 'artists concept' of a black hole is one of the most childish i have ever seen, and it also appears to be sucking ****ing galaxies into it.
2009-01-27, 11:17 PM #31
Originally posted by saberopus:
also this stuff is good




qq


um.. do YOU have a degree in journalism..?..

o.0
2009-01-27, 11:40 PM #32
Originally posted by BobTheMasher:
I knew my "unwarranted hatred of Americans" detector was going off, glad I found the source. It's always somewhere! :carl:
I defend Americans more often than not. The fear of doomsday has been pretty solidly ingrained in American society since the Cold War and arguably much earlier than that: in the late 1800s there were scientists warning that by 1950 Boston would be buried under 9 feet of horse manure. :XD:
2009-01-27, 11:52 PM #33
You need a degree in journalism to spot bad writing?

Man, I guess you can't criticize a movie unless you have a degree in filmmaking, either. And the next time someone tells you that you weren't very good in bed you can just say "Where's your degree in prostitution?"
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2009-01-27, 11:56 PM #34
um.. you're fat.. and um yeah

(you need a degree in humour)

o.0
2009-01-28, 12:07 AM #35
You need a degree in not being stupid.
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2009-01-28, 12:26 AM #36
no u

o.0
2009-01-28, 12:26 AM #37
Now now children, lets kiss and make up.

Kiss him. KISS HIM.
2009-01-28, 1:51 AM #38
the end of this thread is far more entertaining.
People of our generation should not be subjected to mornings.

Rbots
2009-01-28, 2:42 AM #39
we already know the mb often spontaneously collapses into a black hole
2009-01-28, 2:48 AM #40
Originally posted by Jon`C:
I defend Americans more often than not. The fear of doomsday has been pretty solidly ingrained in American society since the Cold War and arguably much earlier than that: in the late 1800s there were scientists warning that by 1950 Boston would be buried under 9 feet of horse manure. :XD:


Been to Boston lately? The sky is falliing, The sky is falling.
My favorite JKDF2 h4x:
EAH XMAS v2
MANIPULATOR GUN
EAH SMOOTH SNIPER
12

↑ Up to the top!