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ForumsDiscussion Forum → obama signed the stimulus bill
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obama signed the stimulus bill
2009-02-17, 3:20 PM #1
well, for better or worse the president signed the stimulus bill... all 787 Billion dollars of it.
and then said this...

Quote:
"We will need to do everything in the short term to get our economy moving again" as well as "begin restoring fiscal discipline and taming our exploding deficits over the long term."


any thoughts on this, hopes, worries? do you think it will work, or no?
Welcome to the douchebag club. We'd give you some cookies, but some douche ate all of them. -Rob
2009-02-17, 3:26 PM #2
For more information

http://www.recovery.gov/

btw, this bill is deemed as the "ARRA" (American Recovery and Reinvestment Act)
一个大西瓜
2009-02-17, 3:37 PM #3
thank you sir :) i actually meant to post a link to that site.
Welcome to the douchebag club. We'd give you some cookies, but some douche ate all of them. -Rob
2009-02-17, 3:58 PM #4
How is this any different than bush?
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2009-02-17, 4:00 PM #5
Where was Bush even mentioned in this thread until you brought him up?
Stuff
2009-02-17, 4:33 PM #6
He's doing exactly the right thing. The catastrophic mistake of the catastrophic crash of 1929 was that governments did absolutely nothing thinking that 'the free market will fix itself'. The free market never fixes itself, it has had regular heart attacks throughout the 20th century and governments have had to invoke a variety of tactics to recussitate it. Tax cuts are a very easy option, but have shown to have had little effect in such a steep recession. These sort of cash injections are precisely what will keep the economy afloat in the short-term. But the long-term will require a drastically different sort of capitalism, with the necessity of nationalising banks and other institutions.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2009-02-17, 4:38 PM #7
Originally posted by kyle90:
Where was Bush even mentioned in this thread until you brought him up?

My thoughts exactly.
Author of the JK levels:
Sand Trap & Sand Trap (Night)

2009-02-17, 7:25 PM #8
8 Dollars a week is no more valid than 600 dollars a person, 1400 per household. It costs billions and is based on temporary financial bandaging. Reform of the stupid crediting culture/systems we have in America would be a far more beneficial, long-term fix to the economic problem. Pay back bad mortgages to the individuals who were sold for their credit. Penalize and redistribute careless CEOs who bought bad credit from the individual and sold it to the business sector. Let's sew up the wound so we stop bleeding out every 10 years. There are far more faulty sinkholes of money in American culture that could very quickly be solved by enforcing laws already in the book. We need to fix the leaky economy before trying to pour more money in. People will either save it or spend it on empty, stagnant sectors.

I bring up Bush because his people had the same faulty logic about the "inevitable" swing of the economy. I'm reminded of global warming apologists who claim it is a natural part of earth's system and that we can only enjoy the warm weather. We just deal with the downswing, "stimulate" the economy into an upswing, and hope it lasts. In a healthy economy, the market is stable enough to maintain longer peaks. America's peaks have gotten higher, but so short lived that the extreme wealth is barely distributed. We cannot rely on the systems that are so volatile. I don't know very much about Economics at all, but I still can't see a difference between the two Presidents' logic.
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2009-02-17, 7:40 PM #9
I guarantee you if Bush's name was behind this stimulus bill, everyone supporting it would be complaining about how its worsening our deficit, is not the right way to fix the economy, etc etc etc
2009-02-17, 8:03 PM #10
and everyone complaining about it would be blah blah blah :v:
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2009-02-17, 8:05 PM #11
Originally posted by JediKirby:
I bring up Bush because his people had the same faulty logic about the "inevitable" swing of the economy. I'm reminded of global warming apologists who claim it is a natural part of earth's system and that we can only enjoy the warm weather. We just deal with the downswing, "stimulate" the economy into an upswing, and hope it lasts. In a healthy economy, the market is stable enough to maintain longer peaks. America's peaks have gotten higher, but so short lived that the extreme wealth is barely distributed. We cannot rely on the systems that are so volatile. I don't know very much about Economics at all, but I still can't see a difference between the two Presidents' logic.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_cycle


Originally posted by Wiki:
Preventing business cycles

Because the periods of stagnation are painful for many who lose their jobs, pressure arises for politicians to try to smooth out the oscillations. An important goal of all Western nations since the Great Depression has been to limit the dips.
Managing economic policy to even out the cycle is a difficult task in a society with a complex economy, even when Keynesian theory is applied. According to some theorists, notably nineteenth-century advocates of communism, this difficulty is insurmountable. Karl Marx in particular claimed that the recurrent business cycle crises of capitalism were inevitable results of the system's operations. In this view, all that the government can do is to change the timing of economic crises. The crisis could also show up in a different form, for example as severe inflation or a steadily increasing government deficit. Worse, by delaying a crisis, government policy is seen as making it more dramatic and thus more painful.
Additionally, Neoclassical economics plays down the ability of Keynesian policies to manage an economy. Challenging the Phillips Curve since the 1960s, economists like Nobel Laureate Milton Friedman or 2006 Nobel Laureate Edmund Phelps have made ground in their arguments that inflationary expectations negate the Phillips Curve in the long run. The stagflation of the 70's supported their theory by flying in the face of Keynesian predictions. Friedman has gone so far as to argue, that all the Federal Reserve System can do is to avoid making large mistakes, as he believes they did by contracting the money supply very rapidly in the face of the Stock Market Crash of 1929, in which they made what would have been a recession into a great depression. (Friedman calls the Great Depression the "Great Contraction" because of this).
一个大西瓜
2009-02-17, 8:30 PM #12
Originally posted by Mort-Hog:
He's doing exactly the right thing. The catastrophic mistake of the catastrophic crash of 1929 was that governments did absolutely nothing thinking that 'the free market will fix itself'


Or it could be that those people hired by the government to be a lender of last resort (*cough* the FRB) had no bat**** idea of how to handle a crisis and engaged in ludicrous monetary policy that made things just worse.
"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"
2009-02-17, 8:37 PM #13
Keep the rich rich and the poor poor!
2009-02-17, 10:02 PM #14
Originally posted by kyle90:
Where was Bush even mentioned in this thread until you brought him up?


Bush spent 700b to fix the economy.

Obama spent 700b to fix the economy.

He's asking what's different.
"it is time to get a credit card to complete my financial independance" — Tibby, Aug. 2009
2009-02-17, 10:34 PM #15
Originally posted by Freelancer:
Bush spent 700b to fix the economy.

Obama spent 700b to fix the economy.

He's asking what's different.


i got a physical check from bush... which by the way, i just found out i have to repay at least a portion of via federal taxes :rant:

also...

Quote:
Require unprecedented levels of transparency, oversight, and accountability


this part is already a failure.
Welcome to the douchebag club. We'd give you some cookies, but some douche ate all of them. -Rob
2009-02-17, 10:44 PM #16
that check was non taxable. completely.

if you think you have to pay taxes on it, you're doing it wrong.
My girlfriend paid a lot of money for that tv; I want to watch ALL OF IT. - JM
2009-02-17, 11:03 PM #17
Why not just print more money o_O
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2009-02-17, 11:04 PM #18
inflation.
My girlfriend paid a lot of money for that tv; I want to watch ALL OF IT. - JM
2009-02-17, 11:13 PM #19
^^ Ford answers where we got $787 billion! We just print it out. Meanwhile, the value of the dollar takes a Colorado sized ****. ^^

Originally posted by Mort-Hog:
He's doing exactly the right thing. The catastrophic mistake of the catastrophic crash of 1929 was that governments did absolutely nothing thinking that 'the free market will fix itself'. The free market never fixes itself, it has had regular heart attacks throughout the 20th century and governments have had to invoke a variety of tactics to recussitate it. Tax cuts are a very easy option, but have shown to have had little effect in such a steep recession. These sort of cash injections are precisely what will keep the economy afloat in the short-term. But the long-term will require a drastically different sort of capitalism, with the necessity of nationalising banks and other institutions.

Where is the United States coming up with $787 billion? Where did this fantastically large sum of money come from? It's not April 15 yet so we're probably still operating on last year's revenue.

This will do absolute shït to the economy much like the last two attempts did. One burst of money in one's account is not going to do a damned thing. If anything, I get an exhaust, turbo/supercharger, or I pay about 2-3 mos of my car off courtesy of the United States. Meanwhile, consumer confidence will still remain low. Banks (those that are still alive) are still guarding their assets with security and protection that the NSA couldn't possibly imagine. Homes are still being foreclosed left and right.
Code to the left of him, code to the right of him, code in front of him compil'd and thundered. Programm'd at with shot and $SHELL. Boldly he typed and well. Into the jaws of C. Into the mouth of PERL. Debug'd the 0x258.
2009-02-18, 12:01 AM #20
Originally posted by dalf:
One burst of money in one's account is not going to do a damned thing. If anything, I get an exhaust, turbo/supercharger, or I pay about 2-3 mos of my car off courtesy of the United States.

Er, that's what he's talking about. It doesn't work.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2009-02-18, 3:43 AM #21
This is the kind of **** that gets fixed overnight, by one man.

It really is guys.
2009-02-18, 5:28 AM #22
Wow, so he changed the number from 700 billion to 787. Good Job!
Quote Originally Posted by FastGamerr
"hurr hairy guy said my backhair looks dumb hurr hairy guy smash"
2009-02-18, 5:33 AM #23
I love how the first guy to piss and moan and compare Obama to Bush in this thread was an Obama whore when the race started back in the day.
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2009-02-18, 5:53 AM #24
Originally posted by JediKirby:
8 Dollars a week is no more valid than 600 dollars a person, 1400 per household. It costs billions and is based on temporary financial bandaging. Reform of the stupid crediting culture/systems we have in America would be a far more beneficial, long-term fix to the economic problem. Pay back bad mortgages to the individuals who were sold for their credit. Penalize and redistribute careless CEOs who bought bad credit from the individual and sold it to the business sector. Let's sew up the wound so we stop bleeding out every 10 years. There are far more faulty sinkholes of money in American culture that could very quickly be solved by enforcing laws already in the book. We need to fix the leaky economy before trying to pour more money in. People will either save it or spend it on empty, stagnant sectors.

I bring up Bush because his people had the same faulty logic about the "inevitable" swing of the economy. I'm reminded of global warming apologists who claim it is a natural part of earth's system and that we can only enjoy the warm weather. We just deal with the downswing, "stimulate" the economy into an upswing, and hope it lasts. In a healthy economy, the market is stable enough to maintain longer peaks. America's peaks have gotten higher, but so short lived that the extreme wealth is barely distributed. We cannot rely on the systems that are so volatile. I don't know very much about Economics at all, but I still can't see a difference between the two Presidents' logic.

The last time I checked, throwing ridiculous amounts of money at something is about the only thing you people know how to do.

*Runs before he gets lynched*
nope.
2009-02-18, 8:19 AM #25
Originally posted by Baconfish:
The last time I checked, throwing ridiculous amounts of money at something is about the only thing you people know how to do.

*Runs before he gets lynched*


Midgets or Americans? Because midgets can't throw very far...
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2009-02-18, 8:27 AM #26
I've decided that he means democrats, because it aligns with my views. :colbert:
Warhead[97]
2009-02-18, 8:40 AM #27
Americans.

Mostly republics.

*flees*
nope.
2009-02-18, 11:07 AM #28
-Flat Tax
-Federalize the Federal Reserve and remove the interest rates it charges banks for loans (tax payer dollars should move the printing presses, not a private business).
-Remove minimum wage
-Make it illegal for Worker Unions to negotiate wages/benefits (they can only go on strike for improved safety standards if needed...though really this isn't even necessary any more with the safety standards and inspections that exist now as opposed to when worker unions were first formed).

Seriously, manufacturers started feeling the recession (or actually, the depression) 10 years. This is why many of them started moving to Mexico and other places or allowing migrant workers to work for under minimum wage. This put people out of jobs, which is what caused people to start defaulting more and more on their house payments. The minimum wage and worker unions are to blame, coupled with inflation that was created by the Federal Reserve.
2009-02-18, 11:24 AM #29
BACK TO CHILD LABOR
"If you watch television news, you will know less about the world than if you just drink gin straight out of the bottle."
--Garrison Keillor
2009-02-18, 11:34 AM #30
Originally posted by Alco:
-Flat Tax
-Federalize the Federal Reserve and remove the interest rates it charges banks for loans (tax payer dollars should move the printing presses, not a private business).
-Remove minimum wage
-Make it illegal for Worker Unions to negotiate wages/benefits (they can only go on strike for improved safety standards if needed...though really this isn't even necessary any more with the safety standards and inspections that exist now as opposed to when worker unions were first formed).


What? We're talking about solving the economic crisis, not turning back to the 1920s.
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ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2009-02-18, 12:39 PM #31
Originally posted by JediKirby:
What? We're talking about solving the economic crisis, not turning back to the 1920s.


Oh yeah, that reminds me.

-Abolish the Stock Market. :neckbeard:
2009-02-18, 12:41 PM #32
Maybe bush had the right idea, take over a bunch of small countries and sell them off to the highest bidders to pay off our fat lazy *** american debts.
Quote Originally Posted by FastGamerr
"hurr hairy guy said my backhair looks dumb hurr hairy guy smash"
2009-02-18, 12:46 PM #33
yeah, that's exactly what we've been doing. We just went into iraq and now we own it and all of its resources! It's now ours! :rolleyes:
Warhead[97]
2009-02-18, 12:56 PM #34
Maybe bush had the right idea, take over a bunch of small countries and give bid-free reconstruction contracts to companies owned by major republican contributors to radically increase our fat lazy *** american debts.
2009-02-18, 1:18 PM #35
gahhh sarcasm fail...
Quote Originally Posted by FastGamerr
"hurr hairy guy said my backhair looks dumb hurr hairy guy smash"
2009-02-18, 3:43 PM #36
Let's pass out more money so people buy more ****. Consume please? Please, we beg you, consume. Our economy has survived on consuming for the past 40 years, and we have no idea how to do anything but fail to meet demand and then play with interest rates to "fix" the inflation rates. So here, take some free money, it'll fix the debt.

Republicans nor Democrats should get to make financial decisions. The economists of the world have always been ignored in favor of people who mix ideology and personal interests with simple math and well understood theories. Actually, I sometimes think they really do believe that throwing a bucket of money at the economy will make something magical happen.
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ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2009-02-18, 3:54 PM #37
Didn't we used to have an ignore feature on these forums? I'm looking for it right now, and I can't find it! :nonono:

Edit : Woot, found it!
Was cheated out of lions by happydud
Was cheated out of marriage by sugarless
2009-02-18, 4:12 PM #38
Originally posted by Jep:
I love how the first guy to piss and moan and compare Obama to Bush in this thread was an Obama whore when the race started back in the day.


Get over it, kiddo.

[QUOTE=Mort Hog] He's doing exactly the right thing. The catastrophic mistake of the catastrophic crash of 1929 was that governments did absolutely nothing thinking that 'the free market will fix itself'. The free market never fixes itself, it has had regular heart attacks throughout the 20th century and governments have had to invoke a variety of tactics to recussitate it. Tax cuts are a very easy option, but have shown to have had little effect in such a steep recession. These sort of cash injections are precisely what will keep the economy afloat in the short-term. But the long-term will require a drastically different sort of capitalism, with the necessity of nationalising banks and other institutions. [/QUOTE]

He signed a bill authorizing the govt. to print billions of paper bills that have absolutely nothing of value backing it. I don't know about heart attack, but he may as well just strapped a box full of firecrackers to the heart.
2009-02-18, 4:14 PM #39
I just thought I'd let you know I'm publicly ignoring you publicly.

I will mask my intent by pretending that I can't find the function. But just so you know, I'm ignoring you. Totally ignoring you. My fingers are in my ears.

This is a big deal and you should know about it, because I'm ignoring you.
2009-02-18, 4:16 PM #40
>.<
Think while it's still legal.
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