I think that both sides of the argument are exagerated. Pot isn't as harmful as some people say, and alchohol isn't as addictive as other claim.

To be fair, A LOT, more people drink alchohol than people who smoke weed. This is a logical explanation as to why more people have accidents under the influence of alchohol. Also, seeing as pot has a more general negative view and people tend to hide it more than their drinking habits, this contributes that people who smoke pot are a lot more careful with their habit.

All in all, I accept the fact that pot is probably less agrresive towards my health, but I'm not sure whether I want to go down that road. It still feels uneasy. Social trauma?

Alright, let's get this straight....

1. We've established that by all known medical research right now, alcohol is more harmful to your body than marijuana, and also has the potential for physical addiction, or at least withdrawl symptoms that affect your body (an immediate one being a hangover, which is really a small case of withdrawl)

2. We've established how backwards it is that marijuana is illegal yet **** like salvia and alcohol or tobacco isn't (although mexico just legalized small amounts of possession of weed and coke, lucky *******)

3. We've established that marijuana is not physical addictive. It has the potential to be mentally habitual, but that's only if you are irresponsible and let it control your life, rather than you controlling your use. And frankly, the fact that you are using quotes like "i'm not sure whether I want to go down that road" is showing that you probably shouldn't smoke, because for some reason or other you think that once you start smoking, that you automatically will be a pothead. So you are really just admitting your irresponsibility

4. A certain someone in the 1st post said that smoking it was "awesome"

Jesus christ just get off these boards and make up your damn mind. We've already covered pretty much everything there is to say about it.

And now that your government legalized possession of under 5 grams, that means of course it's moral! (*sarcasm*)

lol mexico

guys should i smoke beer?

I thought a hangover was dehydration.

No, it's alcohol withdrawal.

This is not true. The term "physically" addictive is a stupid buzzword that people like to hang on to that means nothing. There is no difference between "physically" and "mentally" addictive. For people who have the addict gene, pot is EXTREMELY addictive. The effect of the drug will diminish over time, leading you to smoke more and more to get the same effect. The majority of people in drug rehab programs right now are in there for pot addiction.

I don't think this is a reason to keep it illegal, as alcohol, tobacco and things like gambling are far more destructive to your body and family.

Then why do the kids who go to the hospital for severe intoxication - and get IV's - not have hangovers in the morning?

I don't drink to get drunk, so my personal experience is rather limited.

fishstickz you are wrong on a few different things there, I would stop while your already behind.

I don't even know where to start with this post. You're so incorrect as has been said, on so many levels, that it's hilarious. TBH All I can read is :downswords::downswords::downswords:

First, PHYSICAL and MENTAL addiction are TWO different things, they are even listed under medical dictionaries as TWO different subjects to talk about. WTF are you talking about "they are the same.." ? When doctors talk about them they differentiate between the two, they don't lump them together. Why is that? Because they are DIFFERENT THINGS. Physical addiction is not a buzzword that was started by anyone but scientists to describe what an addiction that is NOT OF THE MENTAL kind.

Second, Marijuana has been shown time and time again to be NOT physically addictive. It is habit forming, and nothing more. When you stop smoking pot, the most extreme withdrawal symptoms you will ever encounter are sleeplessness and minor irritability for a short period of time, however this does eventually pass and usually only hardcore users experience this kind of withdrawal.

Third, "the addict gene"? Ok. I'm not even going to go any further with that one.

Four, the effect of the drug diminish over time? Have you ever even smoked Marijuana? I've been smoking for 10+ years, and I still get as high, if not moreso now that I get better quality Marijuana compared to when I first started smoking, and I've never ever once had to "smoke more" to get high. The effect of Marijuana doesn't diminish over time. People don't start to need harder drugs to get high, or to smoke more Marijuana to get the same effect. This kind of statement clearly shows me you've got absolutely no personal experience taking a single toke.

Most people I know that have smoked weed know that if you even smoke a big fat joint, take a 20 minute power nap, and wake up and smoke another joint you will be as high as you were off that first joint, it'll feel like the first one you've smoked all day again.

Fish, by physically addictive I mean your body physically suffers effects from withdrawl that requires you to immediately drink alcohol to bring your body into balance. With marijuana there is nothing of the sort. Don't even try to say there is. With alcohol withdrawl, you have the chance at facing kidney/pancreas failure, cardiac arrest, etc. Marijuana has no effects on your body with over-use (at as far as the current medical knowledge dictates). The Ld50 of it is astronomical, you would need to smoke 15,000 joints in about 20 minutes to get an even close to toxic level of Marijuana. The only thing addictive about marijuana is the "crutch factor". I'm depressed, so I wanna smoke weed and smoke a lot of it. Bored? Smoke weed. That's mental addiction, not physical addiction. My body isn't saying "I NEED MARIJUANA OR ELSE I WONT WORK".

Also, as a huge smoker myself, I never ever ever ever ever had to "smoke more" to get the same effect. There are hundreds of thousands of different strains of marijuana, and each one has different effects due to either being an indica, sativa, THC content, etc. I never had to take 5 bong rips to get the same effect as that first bong ripply I took when I was a noobie. In fact, if anything, I've started to smoke less and I still get the same effect because I can't afford to be getting thoroughly baked every single day (and I take frequent breaks when exams come up, drug tests, important dates, etc). Marijuana is quite amazing compared to the other drugs because I smoke a bowl, I get high, no matter what my tolerance level is.

Also, regarding your drug rehab programs, try this one on for size. Let's say I get pulled over for possession (which I did get caught, in actuality). They offer you the chance to go to jail, or have a misdemeanor / crime on your record, cancelling the chances of you ever receiving a student loan. ORRRRRRRRRRRRRR you go to rehab and you get it completely wiped off your record. THAT's why so many people are in rehab for "marijuana addiction". It's so the government can throw out that exact # you are talking about and say "look at how awful marijuana is for you". Almost every state has a "Diversion" program for first time offenders, so any sane person is gonna go to it so they don't have to have a ****ing felony/crime on their record

This is not addiction. Addition is a genetically based disorder. Addiction has nothing to do withdrawal.



That's because you aren't an addict.



I was talking about voluntary rehab programs, not government imposed rehab.

hay guys the human body is warm enough to kill germs :science:

I think we can all agree that the world doesn't need more obnoxious potheads.

Hmm...

Ethanol is a partial GABAa agonist. Use eventually leads to an up-regulation of certain GABAa receptors and a down-regulation of others. It is a physical change that prevents your brain's ability to function without ethanol.

Nicotine stimulates the production of dopamine (the "happy" neurotransmitter; used for behavioral reinforcement). Use eventually leads to a down-regulation of the production of dopamine and an increase in the sensitivity of the reward pathway. It is a physical change in your brain's ability to reward and reinforce learned behaviors.

Caffeine is an adenosine receptor antagonist; it bonds to receptor sites easily due to its similarity to adenosine, but it does not activate them (a competitive inhibitor). This results in an up-regulation of adenosine receptors, making your body much more sensitive to adenosine unless it is regulated with caffeine. It is a physical change in your brain's ability to regulate blood pressure and serotonin production.

Marijuana's clinical effects are largely irrelevant. Research has shown that it is possible for the body to develop a tolerance, but this takes the form of an increased efficiency in metabolizing THC and excreting THC metabolites. Because there is no physical change leading to addiction it is mentally addictive. Use results in the expression of pre-existing impulse control disorders. Other examples include gambling addiction and kleptomania.

Yep, fishstickz, that's one of the more retarded comments I've ever heard on this forum.

"In medical terminology, an addiction is a state in which the body relies on a substance for normal functioning and may occur along with physical dependence, as in drug addiction. When the drug or substance on which someone is dependent is suddenly removed, it will cause withdrawal, a characteristic set of signs and symptoms. Addiction is generally associated with increased drug tolerance."

fixed

Except I said what I said for a reason. If I'm driving around with someone and they're being obnoxious thats one thing. Sure if they're obnoxious enough they could probably get in trouble, but i could walk away from that.

What I hate is when I'm driving around and the obnoxious kid in the back reveals that he's carrying a substantial amount of weed and possibly more things. Fine, we don't need more obnoxious people, but don't bring your ****ing drugs into my car.

Well maybe you should choose your friends more wisely

Yes because it's always 100% clear who is a pothead

I've known crack and heroin addicts, and compared to those guys marijuana addicts are a ****ing joke. Addiction is a serious medical condition and takes a lot of hard work to overcome, but when you expand this term 'addiction' to those that simply need an excuse to not get on with their lives then you end up ruining it for those that genuinely need help.

Quoted for la vérité!

MB - It's your responsibility as the driver to know who is in what mindset and what they are carrying before you even let them into your car. If you don't establish that rule then you're the one at fault for letting them in your car in the first place. Try telling that excuse to a cop "Oh sorry sir I swear I didn't know he had any drugs on him but I am giving him a ride anyways to his house because he is my friend".

Fishstickz - You have even been provided the most concise response in this entire thread by Jon'C, followed up by a direct definition of the word "Addiction". I hope you get the point now and stop trying to be Bill Nye.



Exactly. I, too, get a lot higher now than I used to when I first started smoking. There are ways to smoke that are more efficient (vaporizer durr) that deliver THC in a much more potent and safe manner. Sometimes you get higher off the exact same weed if you smoke it in a joint than if you smoked a bowl, or vice versa. It all depends on the strain and on the weed and how you get it delivered to your system, and every single weed strain is completely different. Even two of the same strain can be completely different based solely off their growing conditions. You can take really ****ty weed (typical china bud seeds) and grow some really good weed from it if you know what you are doing. Not to mention that there are tricks, such as curing, to make it more potent and better tasting and smoother toking. The main point is, you never really build up a tolerance to the point that you need to get more, or that you need to get harder drugs to get higher. You'll buy ****ty weed sometimes and need a few extra puffs of it because it's ****ty (not high THC content), that's about it.

Well if potheads are obnoxious than it should be pretty clear then huh...

"According to federal figures, over 37 percent of the estimated 288,000 thousand people who entered drug treatment for pot in 2007 had not reported using it in the 30 days previous to their admission. Another 16 percent of those admitted said that they'd used marijuana three times or fewer in the month prior to their admission."

"According to state and national statistics, between 60 percent and 70 percent of individuals enrolled in substance abuse 'treatment' for cannabis are referred there by the criminal justice system.

By contrast, fewer than 15 percent of marijuana treatment admissions are voluntary."

Yeah, real addicts right? Those voluntary programs also include those kids who are forced their by their parents.

And yeah, mb, if you have people in your car, there is NOTHING wrong with you asking the people if they have weed on them. If they do, don't let them in the car. It's as simple as that.

My words were poor, I was too lazy and tired to actually look anything up. I was saying things off the cuff without thinking.

Taken from another article:



This is the reason that pot is so effective in pain management, as it activates the opioid receptors in the brain, without the nasty side effects of opiates. It's also the primary method of marijuana dependence.

Here's a paper on genetic differences and their effect on addiction: http://hmg.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/16/11/1327

I'm on your side on this one, but you can not say that pot is not addictive, or it's "physically" or "mentally" addictive. It's academic. People with genetic predispositions react to pot differently, and it can be destructive.

There is absolutely zero evidence that THC use results in up- or down-regulation of receptor sites (including opioid receptors). No tolerance is developed and the physical chemistry of the brain is not changed to become dependent on THC for regulation. Pot is not addictive.

The brain contains a number of systems designed to maintain an appropriate chemical balance. While there is a statistically significant correlation between genetics and rate of dependence, you will eventually become addicted to any of the substances we're talking about (except marijuana) regardless of heredity. Addiction is a simple reality of how narcotics function and how the brain defends itself against certain external chemical stimuli. You can equivocate all you want but you're just as much at risk for addiction as someone who isn't a member of the master race.

The fact you seem to be missing is that marijuana use does not result in tolerance. It may short-circuit the reward pathway (if it didn't there would be much point in using marijuana), but unlike nicotine it does not alter the reward pathway. Posting an article about opioids is either a red herring or honest misunderstanding, but you are wrong in any case.

i dont think your going to be able to make a case for actual addiction to pot. emotional dependency, sure. not trying to say if you are "emotionally dependent" your just being a baby, because it can be hard to deal with, i have seen it before. but the fact is, its not the same thing as an actual chemical addiction.

...also yes, hangovers (or at least a significant portion of the symptoms) are largely due to dehydration...

Yea, which is why you should drink hard alcohol!

don't smoke marijuana. you're already questioning how you'll be afterwards, so my advice: don't do it.

i did the same thing when i started drinking, i kept questioning myself until i just said '**** it lets get wasted' well it put me in the damn hospital, trachea tube, catheter in my wang, iv's the whole deal, $900 hospital bill later...i still drink. like once or twice a week. "i got nothing better to do" is my excuse, nobody pressures me to do it. i just feel better when i get buzzed.

but eh, it's your life, if you want to know so bad what it's like or whatever, just be a man, make up your mind and ****ing do it, or not.

First and foremost, you are all making great arguments here, and have kept it mostly civilized and educated. This is educational. Learning a lot of new things here. I want to hear more.

Unrelated, but since we are on addictions, I've always wanted to know whether sex addictions is a mental problem, or if there are physical factors that make some people dependant on sex. I know it can hugely affect someone emotionally, but physically?

Why? It's not like it's something you have to worry about.

BOOM.

Had to correct you here. This is completely inaccurate. In order to become inelligable for a student loan, it needs to be a drug related FELONY conviction, and you have to already be using a student loan when you get convicted.

Umm, well I'm not worried about it all. I'm just curious. I've heard of such cases ruining marriages and peoples lives. Others going to mental hospitals because of it.

Thread started out as: should I try pot? I'm worried about addiction.

So I take it now it's: should I try sex? I'm worried about addiction.

sounds like you just want to get ****ed up without the consequences.

Ah, thank you for correcting me. My local attorney (the one who I met with to try and get some of my charges dropped) said that if it was a misdemeanor I wouldn't of received FAFSA (mine ended up being basically a really expensive traffic violation, thank god, so it doesn't appear on my records regardless).

However, my point remains that if you are in a county/state where first time offense is a felony or even a misdemeanor, anybody would definitely take the rehab program over both so it is taken off their record completely.

This cost me a year of my life ><
Freaking 30 day program "referred" me to a long term place. Bastards.

If observation proves true, then, then I would advise Gold not to. For every action has concequence. Since we are diving into the socially unacceptable behaviors, the concequences would, of course, be negative (or at least, there will be more negative outcomes than positive). If you do, however, choose to ignore such advice, I would like to give the most useful advice, in my opinion, to you. It is nothing against you, as it is something that happens to most, if not all, that commit these acts for the before mentioned reasons. As such, I would advise following it, otherwise you will look completely ignorant and a cancer to society. The advice follows:

Avoid posting about something to the effect of "wahh I got AIDs due to having sex with everyone in town. I don't understand how this could have happened! wahhh!" or "wahhh I got AIDs because I dropped the soap in jail after I got arrested for smoking and possessing illegal substances. I don't understand how this could have happened!"

Doing such would only doom you to being labelled a "****ing moron" by the masses, having a **** storm released upon you, and making baby Jesus cry. I've seen it all too many times with people, doing things while not expecting any negative concequences, and then whining profusely when having face it.

Or at least that's how I feel about it.