Silly question/topic I know. So I'm bored here, looking around the internet for some unusual mysteries stories (I Love reading them, the strange stuff that happens that's still unexplained), ghosts, bermuda triangle, etc. As it stands currently, I'm an avid fan of the paranormal. Call me a spook, but stories (that can be proven to be real unexplained events and not campfire stories) like that just fascinate me, I could read about 'em for hours. It probably stems from my childhood, when my father used to be into all that stuff and we'd watch X-Files, ghost programs, UFO programs together all the time.

Anyways, as it stands currently I am a huge believer in all that stuff. Especially when it comes to UFO's and Alien Civilizations on other planets. I agree a lot of the stories out there people tell are hoaxes and most can be explained by conventional means, however there are several that defy explanation.

What's your current take on it? For me the possibilities of there being just one Earth in a universe as vast as ours is just impossible to think of. Mathematically (and I am no math genius, but you don't need to be one to figure it out) the probability of there being just US is also near impossible. There HAS to be something else out there.

As well, what fueled this topic was that I was browsing a favorite website of mine (abovetopsecret forum) when I came across a post someone made a few hours ago. It is regarding some apparent "Majestic-12" documents that were leaked recently to the public. I won't go into a great amount of detail regarding the article and the studies to determine its authenticity, but to me it seems like a damn good hoax and so far that's what the scientists studying it have concluded.

Apparently, this is a "Manual" that is designed to inform Majestic 12 (top secret government group) members in a sort of "handbook" way how to deal with Extraterrestrial encounters, the various types of Ships encountered, etc. Some of the text is not visible as it's a photocopy of the original "document" but it is a fascinating read for anyone interested in the subject matter.

Here you go, direct link to the .pdf file:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14058/SO1-CLASSIFIED-ARMY-UFO-MANUAL-#$%IFIED-ARMY-UFO-MANUAL


I posted this because I know there are a few people around here interested in this subject and I also know there's a lot of smart people on here and I'd love to hear their takes on the matter.

DISCUSS

I believe there are intelligent life forms in this universe.

They have never been anywhere near Earth though.

Although, I would not be surprised if it was found out there was life forms on Mars at one point.

It's foolish to believe there isn't life elsewhere in the universe. It's REALLY ****ING BIG! But it's unlikely we'll ever find them, at least in our life times.

It's unlikely we will ever find them within our CIVILIZATIONS lifetime.

Space is big. Really, mind boggingly, big.

Furthermore, it is absolutely senile to think that any species that COULD get here would just go around abducting hicks and cow-tipping.

maybe the ones that come here and abduct hicks are teenagers and its their form of cow tipping.

Almost certainly are lifeforms elsewhere, don't expect to encounter them anytime soon.

However, having read a bit of hard sci fi recently (hard sci fi being the kind that's written by people who know what they're talking about and try to be correct as possible), I do believe it's possible that humans may one day encounter aliens.

My opinion is that they are already here, studying us (not abducting people or cows, just studying from the skies, interpreting radio signals, etc). But from our actions and what they can observe, no sane race would reveal themselves to us, at least not yet. We can barely handle not destroying ourselves.

I think we will encounter them in our lifetime in one of two ways.. Either something will happen, some form of evidence comes out that is absolutely undeniable and governments will be forced into disclosure, or they will reveal themselves to us on their own. On the other hand I don't think we're anywhere close in our solar system (in terms of where we are looking) to finding lifeforms. POSSIBLY Mars, but not intelligent life, just microbial life (we've discovered life in equally less-habitual environments on Earth, and still are) that once existed. However we won't find intelligent life any time in the near future, at least for several millennium, when we can get out into the far reaches of space ourselves.

Since we all agree on intelligent life forms ...

What type of life forms? Will they be carbon like us or is it possible for other forms?

There's a pretty vast distinction between actual scientific research into life in the Universe and the ****ing crackpot insane UFO nuts that go crazy whenever they see weather balloons.

The scientific search parameters for intelligent life are pretty narrow, actually. SETI is the most famous, I imagine some of you guys probably have run SETI@Home, searching for background radiation with particular modulation that could only come from some intelligent communication system. But this makes the assumption that an alien civilisation is using radio communication like us, propogating signals in all directions out into the Universe. It is entirely possible that they might use a more highly directional communication system, like a laser, which would never be discovered by SETI.

Searches for habitable planets always search for the presence of water, and assume that all life requires water. It was a long time before astronomers could even observe distant planets as they are so small compared to their star, and this has only been possible for the last 10 years or so. If a planet is too close to the star water will evaporate, and if it is too far away water will freeze, and the search for planets in this 'habitable zone' has returned dozens of good candidates already. It's a very exciting prospect, as it's quite a new field and is developing rapidly.

But yes, it is all searching for life as we know it. No-one is discounting other forms (such as silicon-based life), but it's incredibly hard to narrow down search parameters unless it's something we can replicate on Earth and know what signals such life might emit.

You're all forgetting one big thing here.

God created us as unique. This is the only place in the universe into which God decided to create life. But we're not alone in this universe...we have God.

Damn it jim! i'm a doctor, not a geologist!

Ding.
Coming to Earth just to scare farmers and do freaky **** doesn't make any sense.

Its far more probable they will find us first.

I have no reason to 'believe' in aliens.

If we find them, great. 'Til then, I don't 'believe' ****.

just because they live on another planet doesnt mean they are more advanced than we are.

Eh, I think it's reasonable to believe that they would use "radio" signals, mostly because most planetoids are spheroids and it requires less effort to create a communication net with radio waves versus laser or similar technologies. I can't see us giving up radio in the near or distant future.



Actually, they generally look for the presence of methane. At least, that's what they're starting to look for on Mars as an indication of life. And on another note, we still can't "observe" distant planets. We can observe a "wobble" that astronomers "assume" are planets. From the wobble they can draw some basic conclusions from that assumption like distance, composition, etc. But that's all based on the original assumption and using our own solar system as a basis for comparison. I think it's safe to say that we're still a long way off from being able to actually observe distant planets with reasonable certainty of accuracy. Essentially, due to a number of factors, we'd need to visit the systems in some form (either automically or in person).

I think the important thing is that we're making the effort to reach out, regardless. I also don't think researchers are using "narrow parameters", but instead are operating on 'best guesses'...which is OK for now.

================================================

All of that being said...

I'm not sure what to believe as to the statistics that other life is out there and they can be discovered/revealed in our lifetime. Most statistics I've see haven't taken into account the timing of discovery with respect to not only our own technological development but to that of the other potential cultures. Our search rate is too slow and doesn't provide a reasonable level of certainty. We need to get out there and explore in person to cover greater ground.

That being said...

I think we should concentrate more efforts on ourselves and developing technology to allow us to more thoroughly explore our own solar system.

Now, all of THAT being said...

hulu

No, the 'wobble' is the old method. Now we have the resolution to observe a dimming of the starlight as the planet passes infront of it. By the magnitude and period of this dimming we can calculate the size of the planet and its distance from the star.

AKA, a higher resolution "wobble". It still really doesn't tell us anything with certainty.

There are some interesting projects on the drawing board that would dim sunlight enough to actually take some decent visuals of planets themselves

No, it has nothing to do with the 'wobble'. The wobble measures the gravitational pull of the planets on the star, and it can only detect Jupiter-sized planets (as anything smaller has a negligible gravitational pull). By measuring the dimming of starlight, you can observe much smaller Earth-sized planets that are better candidates for supporting life.

All astronomy makes observations based on spectroscopy, and can make very accurate observations of the composition of galaxy clusters and can now be used to determine the composition of distant planets.

I need to retract a previous statement as to the observation of planets. I forgot that back in 2007 infrared images of some planets around their star were photographed. So we can now actually see the distance, not only from the planet to its star, but also to other planets.

EDIT, apparently there was an even earlier image in 2004.

i actually brought this up at the last poker game... god's official word on this belief is "sometimes humans are too arrogant... at least the knvahtrjfhi don't think that way"

Infrared images are much less interesting than spectroscopic data. They're just to make the general public go 'ooh how pretty'.


This is what the general public find interesting.



This is what's actually useful.

o_O

without a doubt

Speaking of SETI: http://io9.com/5256360/seti-picks-up-regular-laser-pulse-emanating-from-space

There are many people living in my city/county area that are not citizens in the U.S. yes, without a doubt, Aliens exist.

Half the posters here probably meet the qualifications of "being from another planet"... bunch a' weirdos.

I don't believe Aliens have visited earth, but I think it'd be silly to claim that we're the only planet that contains the right materials for abiogenesis.

Given the likely rarity of life on the universe, and the even further rarity of civilization, it seems unlikely that we could ever run into another civilization with a comprehensibly similar level of technology. Even finding something within ten or twenty million years of us in technological development seems stupidly unlikely. Anything further and it would either wipe it self out, or the individuals would biologically evolve to become a part of something like a single, greater organism, much in the same way cells comprise our bodies.

It's possible that we will find an exception to relativity, but there is no good reason to believe that there is one. It's highly likely that civilizations are more or less confined to their solar systems.




"useful" of course, being a relative term.

Drake equation approximated 200,000 civilisations in our galaxy.
But if u divide that by about 5 billion years, theres probably only less than 10 about at the moment depending on how long species last

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

That's assuming they can't develop the technology to leave their planet/system when it dies.

Yeah, that's a pretty limited model for life. Couldn't a virus (lolborg) or some self-replicating thing easily expand out into multiple solar systems? There's models for self replicating robotic armies that expand out at a steady rate, unhindered by the constraints of biology.

omg this

i dont believe there are any aliens, sriously

Rather off-topic, but did you know that Drew Karpyshyn, the lead writer for Mass Effect, is the guy who wrote the Darth Bane novels (which I've admittedly haven't read)?

Also the Drake equation is utter bollocks.

Not that it matters, I'm just curious, but in what way is it faulty?