Why do I think Doom 3 looks like crap? I think it's the bumpmappings fault. Here is why... (First off both Doom 3 and FarCry shots were taken at High detail.)

Plastic? But why does it look like that?


Far back it looks okay, but still plasticy...


Close up..but why does it look like crap up close?


Here is a picture of a wall in FarCry upclose, it doesn't look like crap at all. This is weird huh?


More upclose Doom3, why the crap look?


Overly shiney? Plastic? Crappy? WHY?!


Notice the gun looks like plastic. It's WAY to shiney up front and it just looks...well plastic? Why don't FarCry guns look like that?


Wait...now FarCry looks like plastic? How can this be? Also now the texture looks like CRAP up close!!!


Why do some things in FarCry look like plastic but not others? The answer is simple. BUMPMAPPING!!! Everything in FarCry that is bumpmapped looks shiney like plastic, and up close it looks like crap. I think that Doom 3's problem is that 90% of the entire game is bumpmapped, thus up close looks like crap and further back just looks like plastic. Notice all of the shots that aren't bumpmapped look very nice up close, not like crap and not like plastic, but all of the bumpmapped items seem to look like plastic.

http://sajn.phearwear.com/Doom3/bumpcry.jpg http://sajn.phearwear.com/Doom3/80.jpg

^ Two more pictures from bumpmapped items in farcry. Notice the overly shiney plastic look.


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[This message has been edited by SAJN_Master (edited August 25, 2004).]

This just in: No one cares.

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Empty.

I figured instead of me just saying 'OMFG IT LOOKS LIKE PLASTIC' in every thread, I thought I'd tell people WHY I say that all the time. it isn't so much a hate for Doom3 as it is a hate for bumpmapping.

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(>º_º)> ±h³ ѳv³®-£ⁿd¡תּ9 §±ºr¥ <(º_º<) | (>º_º)> תּℓζ ШǿѓЖ§|-Юρ <(º_º<)

did you take the time to think that some of these surfaces MIGHT BE MADE OF PLASTIC MATERIALS plus we already went over why the textures in doom3 are low res... look at all the texture data other than the standard textures... all the normal maps and specular maps and all that stuff...

STOP COMPLAINING ABOUT IT!

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LONG LIVE DREAMCAST!!!

the whole point is that you arent supposed to be looking at the textures right up close. they look wonderful when you're at the distance you normally are while trying to run from the scary as hell mosnter in doom3.

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There are two asses in Massassi... and I'm one of them.
The Matrix Unplugged|My Portfolio|My Levels

I'm sure most games look like crap upclose. If they were meant to look good up close, they'd be called "Running into a wall 3D: SAJN_Master Edition" :-P

And in all truth: They look a little shiney? It's a style. I tend to not like it, but does this make the game bad? No. Give us a thesis that isn't completelly graphically based, and then your opinion would hold weight. Until then, this is yet another 'SAJN is Anti-Quake' thread.

JediKirby

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jEDIkIRBY - Putting the Romance back into Necromancer.
Proud Leader of the Minnessassian Council

Live on, Adam.

What are you talking about, JK? This has nothing to do with the gameplay of the game, this has to do with why the game looks like crap, and if you read my first post you'd know that. You'd also notice the proof that it's all the evil doing of bumpmapping!!! I showed FarCry shots that look plasticy because of BM'ing and Doom3 shots that look plasticy because of BM'ing! That's all I am getting at.




Well duh, but it's also far away that it seems plasticy, and it isn't really because of the texture, it's because of the Bumpmapping.

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[This message has been edited by SAJN_Master (edited August 25, 2004).]

the game looks like crap if you're doing the things the game was not made to do. play it normally, and stop standing there looking at a wall point blank.(also, half the stuff you mentioned isnt really plastic-like. the red pipe is shining because paint shines, especially when sprayed on metal. and guess what... metal shines... more than plastic most of the time.

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There are two asses in Massassi... and I'm one of them.
The Matrix Unplugged|My Portfolio|My Levels

[This message has been edited by Cazor (edited August 25, 2004).]

Those farcry shots are all played on horrid resolution. I just loaded up farcry and went to that EXACT spot. Looks amazing in game, to me.

JediKirby

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jEDIkIRBY - Putting the Romance back into Necromancer.
Proud Leader of the Minnessassian Council

Live on, Adam.

Uhh, screenshots please? I play FarCry on Highest detail all the time, those shots were taken on high detail my friend.

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(>º_º)> ±h³ ѳv³®-£ⁿd¡תּ9 §±ºr¥ <(º_º<) | (>º_º)> תּℓζ ШǿѓЖ§|-Юρ <(º_º<)

Stop complaining about it already. If you think you are being super observant or something, your not. Some of Doom 3's textures are low res, we know that, but guess what... nobody cares.

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ZGPC

People don't seem to grasp the concept of video-cards effecting graphical performance.

Shots tomorrow, bed tonight.

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jEDIkIRBY - Putting the Romance back into Necromancer.
Proud Leader of the Minnessassian Council

Live on, Adam.

But the thing is. *smashed head on keyboard* BUMPMAPPING MAKES IT LOOK WORSE. *smashes head* The thing is that if Doom3 wasn't so bumpmapped it would look better. Not as completley shiney. And JediKirby, once a game is at highest settings, even if your card is better it wouldn't look better then best.

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[This message has been edited by SAJN_Master (edited August 25, 2004).]

it's not the bump mapping it's the specular mapping that makes things shiny that's where the plastic appearance comes from... but without specular mapping the bump mapping would be less obvious (turn specular off in doom3 and you will see what i mean) doom3 does not look like plastic in areas where it's not supposed to... metal doesn't look like plastic the monsters don't the characters don't just the stuff that is likely to actually be made of plastic

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LONG LIVE DREAMCAST!!!

Like guns and rusty metal walls?



Will do. [edit: How do I do that >.<]

For the last time people, I am not anti-doom, just anti..plastic looking stuff in doom...if that makes sense.

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[This message has been edited by SAJN_Master (edited August 25, 2004).]

ok the wall is too shiney for rusted metal but it doesn't look like plastic... and the gun could possibly be made with plastic components... it would reduce the weight and since it's the future alot more stuff could use plastic more... plastic can be quite a tough material

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LONG LIVE DREAMCAST!!!

advanced options... the little button above the quality selection (you won't have to restart doom after turning it off)

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LONG LIVE DREAMCAST!!!

My GOD it looks like plastic.

/end pointless *****ing

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ZGPC

Just play the damned game all ready sheesh.

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Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit, sed diam nonummy nibh euismod tincidunt ut laoreet dolore magna aliquam erat volutpat.

yeah just play the game or my non-plastic friend here will eat you

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LONG LIVE DREAMCAST!!!

Jim, you are my hero. I turned it off and suddenly everything looked much better. Nothing looked shiney, nothing seemed like plastic, and the game had a much more spooky feel to it. it was more grungey then before instead of shiney.

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/turns off specular

I'll be right back



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ZGPC

....was that really neccicary?
nobody even brought up you-knowwhat 2.


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<]-[ellequin[]Off> Everytime I think I've hit the bottom, and can't get any lower, someone tosses me a shovel

[This message has been edited by Oberfeldwebell (edited August 25, 2004).]

So shoot me, I dont care. HL2 looks like plastic too

I turned off specular, and there is a rediculously huge difference in all the textures, but it looks much more bland and lifeless. Go specular!

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ZGPC

I am one of those curious breed of people who enjoyed FC, enjoyed Doom 3, am looking forward to both HL2 & STALKER. We are few, but we are proud.

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Cantina Cloud | BCF | The Massassian 1, 2 & 3 | Gonk WoW Petition <- SIGN!
Corrupting the kiddies since '97

Speaking as someone who understands why those games look the way they do and what the developers were trying to accomplish, I feel I am qualified to say that I hate SAJN_Master.

i'm with jaiph... maybe it's because we aren't human... humans suck!

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LONG LIVE DREAMCAST!!!

[This message has been edited by DrkJedi82 (edited August 25, 2004).]

I never said I didn't enjoy it, I just said it looks like crap >.<

Also Jon'C, die.

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If you walk up to a wall and stare at it sure it doesn't look as good in Doom 3 where the vast majority of gameplay involves not staring at walls. I'm happy that you enjoy your wall staring more in Far Cry though. We all need a hobby.

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"The moral of the story? No means no, especially when it comes to the English language. It's not into the kinky stuff you want it to do, and therefore you should not force it." - Darko

*Salutes Jaiph*

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The Massassi-Map
There is no spoon.

WHY[/b] in HELL did the picture I posted of an HL2 ant lion end up in here???

... wait a sec.. I see, since nobody says HL2 looks like plastic, but that giant bug does, and you can clearly see the bump/spec/norm/whatever mapping, you've proven him RIGHT... wow good job, case closed.

[edit] also can sombody post comparison shots of specular on and specular off?

[edit 2] ok, fine..

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I am __Ace_1__ , and I approve this message.

[This message has been edited by Ace1 (edited August 25, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by Ace1 (edited August 25, 2004).]

I would like to know what games you think do not look like crap...


...you know, so I can possibly laugh some more.

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Do not feed the oyster.

magic...



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ZGPC

You go on ahead, I'll catch up.

It's amazing how quickly things degenerate on this forum. Not that this particular topic was any good to begin with; however, it still impresses me.

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http://www.siggraph.org/education/materials/HyperGraph/illumin/specular_highlights/blinn_model_for_specular_reflect_1.htm

http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/codegarrofi/perPixelLighting/perPixelLighting.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phong_lighting

A few documents. Educate yourselves.

...I suppose if I say that I feel Doom 3 tends to look like the entire game is made of rubber and has a shiney/soft look to it, I'd get bashed for being an "id hater" right?

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Roach - Gyring and gimbling in the wabe...
0 of 14.

I'm with you Jaiph. I don't see what' so hard about wanting all of the games you listed

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

Uh, if you put a flashlight to any object, it's going to shine. Get up from your chair one day and you might notice it. Yeah, even rust SHINES when you SHINE light on it.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Holy crap, Emon is right. Amazing... lights... shiny... oooh.

We're too spoiled nowadays. Games are so good looking, we nitpick over the tiniest details. Later-made games rely too heavily on graphics, while spending very little time on plot. Plot and gameplay are my two biggest concerns when considering a game (other than extremely obvious things, like genre and play time). But hey, if it's a fun game, I'm all for it. I'd shell out the money for an old copy of Thief over a new beautiful shoot-the-monsters/zombies/Nazis-whilst-jumping-over-crates game.

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Empty.