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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Speed of sound realism in video games
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Speed of sound realism in video games
2009-06-15, 10:47 PM #1
I haven't come across a video game that uses a realistic speed of sound model. For example, in most games, explosions that happen in the distance can be heard instantly, whereas in real life there is a lag as the sound wave takes some time to reach you. Are there any games where this has been implemented?

2009-06-15, 10:50 PM #2
I was playing Darkest Hour (A mod for red orcestra) and I saw a snipers muzzle flash and died before I heard it, im not sure if thats usual or a fluke though.
2009-06-15, 10:53 PM #3
Originally posted by BombayZeus:
I haven't come across a video game that uses a realistic speed of sound model. For example, in most games, explosions that happen in the distance can be heard instantly, whereas in real life there is a lag as the sound wave takes some time to reach you. Are there any games where this has been implemented?

This is in the same vein as sound effects in deep space. As in, I don't suspect you're going to find one. You're gonna have 'tard screaming OMG HAX HE SHOT ME BEFORE I HARD THE SOUND!!!1!
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2009-06-15, 11:01 PM #4
Day of Defeat Source is decent with this.
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2009-06-15, 11:30 PM #5
In ARMA 1 and now ARMA 2 most of the time bullets will start hitting you a little bit before you actually hear the shot fired. The delay is actually a pretty good way to figure out how far away the shooter was if you have no idea. Same goes for explosions and vehicles at a distance.

Also
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2009-06-15, 11:32 PM #6
Originally posted by Avenger:
Day of Defeat Source is decent with this.


having muffled sounds for distant stuff is not what we are referring to we are talking about delays in distant sounds... like you see an explosion off in the distance then a moment later you hear it

Originally posted by Tiberium_Empire:
I was playing Darkest Hour (A mod for red orcestra) and I saw a snipers muzzle flash and died before I heard it, im not sure if thats usual or a fluke though.


Red Orchestra (and any mod for it) has this feature... i first noticed it with an artillery strike
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2009-06-15, 11:50 PM #7
Originally posted by DrkJedi82:
having muffled sounds for distant stuff is not what we are referring to we are talking about delays in distant sounds... like you see an explosion off in the distance then a moment later you hear it


I know what you're referring to. I'm not retarded. I get killed a plenty from distance without hearing anyone shooting at me.
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2009-06-16, 12:13 AM #8
I'm not sure "retarded" is the appropriate term there.
.
2009-06-16, 12:23 AM #9
but it means slow, i think its the perfect word for speaking about the rate of travel of sound vs light and objects in video games

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2009-06-16, 1:27 AM #10
Originally posted by UltimatePotato:
In ARMA 1 and now ARMA 2 most of the time bullets will start hitting you a little bit before you actually hear the shot fired. The delay is actually a pretty good way to figure out how far away the shooter was if you have no idea. Same goes for explosions and vehicles at a distance


This was also the case for the original Operation Flashpoint, released in 2001. Both the speed of the bullets and the speed of sound are (allegedly) correctly modelled, which is why the bullets arrive before the sound. But yeah the OFP/ARMA series is the only example I can think of.
2009-06-16, 3:06 AM #11
Most the games I play aren't massive enough in scale enough to notice this effect.
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2009-06-16, 4:42 AM #12
Sound is pretty slow. It doesn't have to be far.

Anyway, I think Halo did it, at least a little.
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2009-06-16, 5:46 AM #13
It should be pretty easy to implement. Games already scale the volume of sounds based on distance. Shouldn't be hard to add a formula to then calculate the delay of playing the sound based on distance. The effect should be pretty noticeable at 50 feet.

But a lot of people would probably complain, which is why we probably haven't seen it become standard in games.
2009-06-16, 6:02 AM #14
I know it would make sniper classes a lot more hated.
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2009-06-16, 6:40 AM #15
Fallout 3 did a good job when exploding Megaton
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2009-06-16, 7:09 AM #16
Originally posted by Alco:
The effect should be pretty noticeable at 50 feet.


Sound travels 1100 feet per second. I doubt I would notice it at 50 feet. I know I don't consciously notice the effect alot in real-life, only in situations like thunderstorms. But then again, I'm not routinely exposed to gunfire or explosions.
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2009-06-16, 7:22 AM #17
Do most games still not have realistic trajectories for bullets? I actually don't know as I've played fairly few newer FPS games. In most old games when you fired a gun, the bullet would fly an infinite distance without dropping, until it either hit something or flew into a galaxy far, far away. Also, it would be neat if when you fired at the sky, the bullet would eventually drop back into the ground, has any game had that?
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2009-06-16, 7:27 AM #18
At high rates of shots/minute that becomes a LOT of objects to track.
2009-06-16, 7:46 AM #19
I think in most fps nowadays projectiles are given maximum range but they don't falter and fall, the ammo just disappears, I'd imagine.
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2009-06-16, 7:48 AM #20
Eh, STALKER certainly models bullet drop. I don't know about air resistance, though. And I KNOW it doesn't do anything more than that.

Even then the battles are small-scale enough for it not to be an issue. Any slowdown would be because of the sheer amount of actors that need to be modelled for the number of projectiles in play to be an issue, considering that, depending on range, the projectiles would only be calculated for anywhere up to a second or so.

Besides, the worst the equations for this get is a freakin' quadratic. Even counting drag.
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2009-06-16, 8:09 AM #21
Originally posted by Krokodile:
Do most games still not have realistic trajectories for bullets? I actually don't know as I've played fairly few newer FPS games. In most old games when you fired a gun, the bullet would fly an infinite distance without dropping, until it either hit something or flew into a galaxy far, far away. Also, it would be neat if when you fired at the sky, the bullet would eventually drop back into the ground, has any game had that?


red orchestra (and it's mods) models in drop and you don't have instant hit bullets

they don't model wind though... that's left to sniper games

it wouldn't be too hard for devs to model in bullet drop and flight time but they have to figure out if doing so would be right for their game... it works great in games where realism is a selling point but for most shooters it's not the best idea... since most of them have you being able to have an enemy unload a full magazine from an AK47 into your chest and all yuo need to do is duck behind a rock for a few seconds and you're ready for another 30 rounds to the chest (but your enemies tend to go down with 1-2 shots)
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2009-06-16, 8:11 AM #22
Originally posted by - Tony -:
Eh, STALKER certainly models bullet drop. I don't know about air resistance, though. And I KNOW it doesn't do anything more than that.


I know the STALKER devs advertise realistic weapon properties quite adamantly but I don't think shotguns have an effective range of only 5 feet and AK-74's only 3.
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2009-06-16, 8:33 AM #23
Originally posted by ECHOMAN:
I know the STALKER devs advertise realistic weapon properties quite adamantly but I don't think shotguns have an effective range of only 5 feet and AK-74's only 3.


and they don't wear out anywhere near that quickly
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2009-06-16, 8:59 AM #24
Originally posted by ECHOMAN:
I know the STALKER devs advertise realistic weapon properties quite adamantly but I don't think shotguns have an effective range of only 5 feet and AK-74's only 3.

To be honest, most of that's balance. Same with wear. If you're going to put something in a game, you might as well have it make a noticeable difference.

Anyway, more than a few mods use stats of weapons held in a vice for accuracy (and other things, like muzzle velocity and bullet mass), so consequently they're very, VERY accurate over short ranges. Which, really, you'd expect for an assault rifle over about fifty metres.

Apparently.

I don't know about shotguns, though, since all video game shotguns are useless after about ten yards.

Damage is still arbitrary, though, but when isn't it?
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2009-06-16, 10:27 AM #25
Originally posted by - Tony -:
To be honest, most of that's balance. Same with wear. If you're going to put something in a game, you might as well have it make a noticeable difference.

Anyway, more than a few mods use stats of weapons held in a vice for accuracy (and other things, like muzzle velocity and bullet mass), so consequently they're very, VERY accurate over short ranges. Which, really, you'd expect for an assault rifle over about fifty metres.

Apparently.

I don't know about shotguns, though, since all video game shotguns are useless after about ten yards.

Damage is still arbitrary, though, but when isn't it?


The only shotgun that wasn't useless in long range was in ss3 XD
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2009-06-16, 10:49 AM #26
I've found that a lot of times in games things seem a lot farther away than they would seem in real life, probably due to field of view and depth perception differences. So shotguns in games might be more realistic than you think, if you assume a worst-case scenario as far as what they're loaded with/choke/barrel length.

It'd be awesome to have a game that modeled all bullets really realistically, but I think it's one of those things where the novelty wears off and it ends up not being cool enough to warrant the processing power.
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2009-06-16, 10:53 AM #27
BF2 has bullet drop. There's no wind to worry about, but drop factors in for long distance (>200m) shots and travel time always factors in (for moving targets, but what game doesn't do that)
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2009-06-16, 4:38 PM #28
Realism in video games is overrated.
2009-06-16, 4:41 PM #29
Originally posted by Krokodile:
Do most games still not have realistic trajectories for bullets? I actually don't know as I've played fairly few newer FPS games. In most old games when you fired a gun, the bullet would fly an infinite distance without dropping, until it either hit something or flew into a galaxy far, far away. Also, it would be neat if when you fired at the sky, the bullet would eventually drop back into the ground, has any game had that?

Red Faction (The first one) has falling rockets, Fun tactic in MP is to just spray into the sky and watch later as people explode.
2009-06-16, 7:45 PM #30
I can't be sure, but did Far Cry 2 have delayed bullets? I seem to remember a shot I took at a jeep in the middle of a desert once, and I had to lead it by a pretty good way. It didn't do bullet drop, but I think it did delay.
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2009-06-17, 7:11 AM #31
HL2 does a good job at this... Use the rocket launcher, or throw a grenade off a cliff. You even get nice echoes in large areas.
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2009-06-17, 7:26 AM #32
Originally posted by EAH_TRISCUIT:
Sound travels 1100 feet per second. I doubt I would notice it at 50 feet. I know I don't consciously notice the effect alot in real-life, only in situations like thunderstorms. But then again, I'm not routinely exposed to gunfire or explosions.


Trust me, compared to the speed of light, it's very noticeable. We did simple sound experiments in grade school.

Originally posted by Krokodile:
Do most games still not have realistic trajectories for bullets? I actually don't know as I've played fairly few newer FPS games. In most old games when you fired a gun, the bullet would fly an infinite distance without dropping, until it either hit something or flew into a galaxy far, far away. Also, it would be neat if when you fired at the sky, the bullet would eventually drop back into the ground, has any game had that?


It's been around since at least 2002, as BF1942 had it. I know it was one of the earliest games to really utilize physics in a game. Oh, and what fun it was. It's probably what made the Jeeps my favorite weapon in the game. Jeeps were great for everything from disarming mines so the tanks could get through (bailing out at full speed but close enough that the Jeep coasts over the mines), to ramming them into the engine of another vehicle. I've also incidentally received a kill point for killing players with debris from my plane after being shot down (though this is very rare).
2009-06-17, 7:39 AM #33
Whoa! I just found out that they're making a BF1943!

http://www.battlefield1943.com/
2009-06-17, 8:20 AM #34
Originally posted by Alco:
Jeeps were great for everything from disarming mines so the tanks could get through (bailing out at full speed but close enough that the Jeep coasts over the mines), to ramming them into the engine of another vehicle.


In BF2 this has been upgraded to "Jihadding", where a SpecOps class throws C4 packs onto a jeep and barrels towards a tank, bailing and hitting the detonator at impact. It's almost a sport :P

Originally posted by EAH_TRISCUIT:
Sound travels 1100 feet per second. I doubt I would notice it at 50 feet.
Ever been to a firing range?
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2009-06-17, 8:30 AM #35
Originally posted by Darkjedibob:
In BF2 this has been upgraded to "Jihadding", where a SpecOps class throws C4 packs onto a jeep and barrels towards a tank, bailing and hitting the detonator at impact. It's almost a sport :P


Hrm, this should be possible in BF1942 as well. I'll have to try it tonight! :)
2009-06-17, 8:46 AM #36
Originally posted by Darkjedibob:
Ever been to a firing range?


every firing range i've been to the farthest shooter you can still see is not that far from you

plus i don't know too many people who sit and stare at other shooters


unless you're suggesting he stand by the targets while people are shooting
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2009-06-17, 9:28 AM #37
Eh, I've been to a range where the extreme ends are roughly 120 feet apart I'd say. That's about 1/10 of a second delay, which would be slightly noticeable. But I've never been there with someone on the other end of the range, so I couldn't tell you if it's noticeable or not.
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2009-06-17, 12:53 PM #38
Originally posted by DrkJedi82:
plus i don't know too many people who sit and stare at other shooters


I watch the guns, not the shooters :P And the delay from one end of the range to the other is noticeable, at least to me.
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2009-06-17, 2:09 PM #39
Originally posted by EAH_TRISCUIT:
Sound travels 1100 feet per second. I doubt I would notice it at 50 feet. I know I don't consciously notice the effect alot in real-life, only in situations like thunderstorms. But then again, I'm not routinely exposed to gunfire or explosions.


I always used to notice it at soccer games. From the sidelines, especially if the play is near the other end of the field from you, there is a noticeable delay between when you see someone kick the ball and when you hear the thump. Sub-second delays are still pretty noticeable.
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2009-06-17, 3:00 PM #40
Originally posted by Alco:
Whoa! I just found out that they're making a BF1943!

http://www.battlefield1943.com/

The servers are actually SMALLER then they were when 1942 came out AND IT ONLY HAS 3 MAPS.
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