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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Electrical car trouble... help please
12
Electrical car trouble... help please
2009-06-25, 10:49 AM #41
Originally posted by Onimusha:
Such a great platform. Little low on torque but nothing a decent flywheel can't fix.


low on torque, it's got like the MOST torque out of the popular honda motors.
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2009-06-25, 1:26 PM #42
Which is still low there bud. Ever heard of a V6 or a V8? Yeah.
"They're everywhere, the little harlots."
-Martyn
2009-06-25, 1:41 PM #43
You don't know what you're talking about, a flywheel is going to do nothing.

If they wanted torque it WOULD be a v6.. It's a 4cycl high revving car that makes HP.. NoESC is not going to put a v6 in his accord
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2009-06-25, 1:51 PM #44
Lets compare, I pulled these cars out of my *** btw

93 prelude vtec
2.2 4cycl, 190hp 158f/lb

93 Nissan 200sx
2.0 4cycl, 140hp 132f/lbs

93 Toyota celica
2.2 4cycl, 135hp 140f/lbs
"Nulla tenaci invia est via"
2009-06-25, 1:55 PM #45
Put some Vtec stickers on the side of it. That'll make it fast.
2009-06-25, 2:36 PM #46
it's not about making it "fast"

if you had to replace a motor would you go for the one with 140hp or the one with 200hp? the cost is about the same.
gbk is 50 probably

MB IS FAT
2009-06-25, 2:54 PM #47
depends.. do I want good gas mileage?
If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.

Lassev: I guess there was something captivating in savagery, because I liked it.
2009-06-27, 11:39 AM #48
gas mileage will be close to the same, just depends on how heavy my foot is really :)
gbk is 50 probably

MB IS FAT
2009-06-27, 11:40 AM #49
Originally posted by zanardi:
Lets compare, I pulled these cars out of my *** btw

93 prelude vtec
2.2 4cycl, 190hp 158f/lb

93 Nissan 200sx
2.0 4cycl, 140hp 132f/lbs

93 Toyota celica
2.2 4cycl, 135hp 140f/lbs


1991-1995 Toyota MR2 Turbo

:ninja:

Originally posted by Onimusha:
Such a great platform. Little low on torque but nothing a decent flywheel can't fix.


You're gonna replace a flywheel on a car with an automatic transmission..? Let me know how that works out for ya... :P
woot!
2009-06-27, 12:02 PM #50
lightened flexplate haha
gbk is 50 probably

MB IS FAT
2009-06-27, 1:43 PM #51
Quote:
You don't know what you're talking about, a flywheel is going to do nothing.


Quote:
You're gonna replace a flywheel on a car with an automatic transmission..? Let me know how that works out for ya...


For one, I was talking about the Vtec in general, not NoEsc's application since he has no intention of modifying anything.

Secondly, if you knew anything about modding Vtec engines, the flywheel upgrade is one of the first things people do to improve their torque. Go read up on a S2000 forum and see for yourself -- or read below on how it will do something and I do, in fact, know exactly what I'm talking about.



http://asia.vtec.net/Reviews/20CivicRev/

Quote:
The gearbox is a Grades Logic Control equipped 5 speed unit equipped with Progressive Shift technology which helps to ensure seamless and very smooth gear changes. The gearbox incidently is the source of a lot of debates amongst enthusiasts. While it offers 5 gears and thus a lot more flexibility than normal 4ATs, the issue lies in its gear ratios. The ratios are 2.684, 1.500, 0.983, 0.733, and 0.571 for 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th gears respectively. The final drive's ratio is 4.562. Technically versed car enthusiasts quickly noticed the reducing gap as we go from gears 1 to 5. In addition, the ratios for gears 3, 4, and 5 are all below 1.0. This has caused some to actually label these gears as 'over-drive' (because of the rule-of-thumb that their ratio is less than 1.0) and this has led to a great deal of misconception. In this instance, one must not judge the effect of the ratios based just on that one gear alone. One must use what I like to call the effective gear ratio which is derived by multiplying each individual gear's ratio by the ratio of the final drive. In modern gearboxes (both auto and manual), the engine power delivered at the flywheel goes through two sets of gear linkages before getting to the driving wheels. From the flywheel, power goes through the clutch, then to the individual gear selected (either of 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 or R in this case) and then through the final drive before finally arriving at the front wheels via the drive shalf. Therefore the multiplier for engine power/torque from flywheel to front wheels is a combination of each gear's ratio and the final drive ratio. In this case, the important factor is the final drive ratio on this Civic - 4.562 is very high. To set this value in perspective, the previous generation EK9 Civic Type-R uses a 5MT gearbox with a final drive ratio of 'only' 4.400 ! So before we make any judgement of whether an individual gear is over-drive or not, we must first take into account the final drive ratio. For example, the car most commonly used to compare against the K20A Civic is the Ford Lynx RS 2.0. This car uses a 4AT gearbox with gear ratios at 2.826, 1.497, 1.000, 0.730 and a final drive ratio of 4.147. Technically 3rd gear on this gearbox at 1.000 is not an over-drive ratio and when we take the final drive ratio into account, we get an effective ratio of 4.147 for 3rd gear. Compare this with 3rd gear on the K20A Civic where the lower 0.983 ratio is multipled by 4.562 and we get an effective ratio of 4.484. So it is clear which 3rd gear will deliver more drive to the front wheels.



Notice how everything depends on the flywheel? Common sense says lighter flywheel will produce better results in your power/torque ratio. Yeah. :downswords:
"They're everywhere, the little harlots."
-Martyn
2009-06-27, 2:38 PM #52
Originally posted by Onimusha:
For one, I was talking about the Vtec in general, not NoEsc's application since he has no intention of modifying anything.

Secondly, if you knew anything about modding Vtec engines, the flywheel upgrade is one of the first things people do to improve their torque. Go read up on a S2000 forum and see for yourself -- or read below on how it will do something and I do, in fact, know exactly what I'm talking about.



http://asia.vtec.net/Reviews/20CivicRev/




Notice how everything depends on the flywheel? Common sense says lighter flywheel will produce better results in your power/torque ratio. Yeah. :downswords:


Mechanical sense says that engines coupled with automatic transmissions do not have flywheels.

Yeah.
woot!
2009-06-27, 4:37 PM #53
but i already said i was not talking about echomans particular case.
"They're everywhere, the little harlots."
-Martyn
2009-06-27, 4:51 PM #54
Originally posted by Onimusha:
but i already said i was not talking about echomans particular case.


After you were called out on it, yeah. :colbert:

Regardless, a lighter flywheel my increase felt throttle response and provide a quicker-revving engine. It may decrease parasitic drivetrain loss, but it's not going to give your engine more power.

I had an aluminum flywheel and an ACT clutch in my Corolla - made it much more fun to drive.
woot!
2009-06-27, 5:29 PM #55
Its simply the cheapest way to gain more torque from the vtec thats all.
"They're everywhere, the little harlots."
-Martyn
2009-06-27, 6:23 PM #56
Don't waste money on an econobox! If I want a reliable driver for my 16 yr old daughter, I get a honda. If I want to wrench, swap motors, fix up, and overall have fun, the search starts and ends with domestics! $50 bucks for a cam, few hundred bucks on a decent pair of heads, couple hundred more bucks for misc parts built on a sturdy platform = 350HP, 400 TQ or more naturally aspirated on factory untouched bottom end :XD:
2009-06-28, 1:08 AM #57
Originally posted by Dash_rendar:
Don't waste money on an econobox! If I want a reliable driver for my 16 yr old daughter, I get a honda. If I want to wrench, swap motors, fix up, and overall have fun, the search starts and ends with domestics! $50 bucks for a cam, few hundred bucks on a decent pair of heads, couple hundred more bucks for misc parts built on a sturdy platform = 350HP, 400 TQ or more naturally aspirated on factory untouched bottom end :XD:


I gotta say though, there's something about a turbocharged 2 liter motor making 250hp right behind your head.. :awesome:

Not an econobox though. :P
woot!
2009-06-28, 1:13 AM #58
Quote:
$50 bucks for a cam


What the hell domestic do you drive?

Cams for my domestic cost an upwards of $2500.
"They're everywhere, the little harlots."
-Martyn
2009-06-28, 5:53 PM #59
Originally posted by Onimusha:
What the hell domestic do you drive?

Cams for my domestic cost an upwards of $2500.


We're obviously talking about two vastly different motors here, but new cams for a traditional ford or chevy V8 are between $100 and $400. I picked up a used Crane cam for a Chevy V8 off eBay for $50 and there are plenty of others out there for that price. I bought a pair of used heads from an IROC Camaro for $50 which I'll be spending a couple hundred dollars at the machine shop to get cleaned up, these will be going on the 5.7L that's already in my car but has lame heads/cam.
2009-06-28, 7:09 PM #60
Damn. I should have purchased a chevy.
"They're everywhere, the little harlots."
-Martyn
2009-06-28, 10:22 PM #61
Originally posted by Dash_rendar:
Don't waste money on an econobox!


I have to pull the motor anyway, as I need to replace the transmission. The motor has 185k miles so I might as well replace it too.

I'm not trying to build a "fast" car, just a daily driver with decent passing power. The rest of the car is in great shape, just needs to be painted. I have a friend doing this for freeeeee :)
gbk is 50 probably

MB IS FAT
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