Uh, it is a big ****ing issue, at least for the military. Over 13,000 people have been discharged since DADT begin, and it's cost us close to $360 million. I'm not joining an organization that has a policy of discrimination against gays.

But anyway...

Eyes are cool.

Heh, we actually have a guy about to be discharged for being "gay." But you gotta remember, Vin. For a lot of people, they want out of the military and "being gay" is an easy out. So 13,000 people getting kicked out really doesn't mean anything.

Frankly, the military doesn't discriminate against gays. You're allowed to be gay in the US military. You're just required to have professional relationships with everyone you work with, which means no gay stuff comes out at work. Which is no different than is expected from straight members.

The only issue with Lasik is that it does permanent damage to the cornea. The old painful surgery does not. Alas.

Are straight members allowed to talk about their wives? Children? Girlfriends? I bet they are. If you think that the military is equal to gays, you are full of ****. Servicemen and women are regularly booted out of the military for no valid reason.

(oh, and a note on that 13,000 figure - that's only people who have reported it to Servicemembers Legal Defense Network, AKA the people who feel they've been wronged. The Pentagon doesn't release the actual numbers.)

Then go to a trade school and develop at least ONE useful skill.

what's that? you were raped? by your entire platoon?

*issues honorable discharge, does nothing else*

And that's only when the assaults actually get investigated.

First off, Sarn is incorrect. It is just as against the regulations now as it has always been for homosexuals to serve in the military. All Don't Ask Don't Tell did was make official a policy that most service members will not be forced (asked) to disclose that they are homosexual but they're are also compelled not to disclose that they are homosexual (unless asked as a legitimate part of a high level security clearance investigation). I know that in the army simply saying you are gay is not enough to be discharged. If it were you would have many people simply saying they are gay in order to be released from service.

Homosexuality is deemed detrimental to good order and discipline. Of course you can argue the merits of that view however heterosexual relationships are also often deemed detrimental to good order and discipline. Fraternization and adultery are two types. Criticizing the military with a comparison based on societally normalized relationships, as you did above, is not really fair because American society as a whole isn't reconciled on the issue.

Also, in twenty years of service I have never seen anyone discharged for an invalid reason. In fact, I wonder what would even influence your view that many people are discharged for no valid reason. It is obvious that you have no direct experience so it seems odd that you would have such a broad assumption. Although I consider it to be a valid reason I have never seen anyone discharged for homosexuality. Most discharges are for medical reasons, failure to meet weight or failing physical readiness testing, both of which receive severance pay, exceeding time in service limits for current rank (again, severance pay), drug test failures, and patterns of misconduct.

I'm not really arguing here, though. More informing. I do respect the fact that you are unwilling to pretend to be something else in order to join the military.

That's extremely unfair. Sexual assaults are very aggressively investigated and prosecuted.

For clarification, Wookie, I wasn't saying being gay is not against regs. Just that there are people in the military that are gay, and they don't go around pretending to be straight. And it's not a problem unless they make it one by being overly ... uhh flamy? or getting caught doing something they shouldn't be doing.

For example, I was previously in a duty section during school and one of the girls in that duty section was a lesbian. Pretty much everyone in the section knew about it (including the section leader), but no one cared, cause she didn't go around bragging about it or making a big deal about it, and it didn't affect anything at all about how the section was ran. Now by regs, I guess the section leader would be required to report it up the chain of command, since he knew about it, but he didn't because it wasn't causing any problems.

And to Vinny specifically:
I'm not trying to convince you or anything. I understand where you're coming from. And you should already know, that even though I think homosexuality is wrong, I still like you as a person, and have a lot of respect for you. I'm sorry you're having trouble finding work. God knows the economy's not making it easy on you.

Everyone else:
Sorry for derailing the thread.

My understanding is that knowledge someone is gay is not anything you are able or required to act on. There has to be evidence of homosexual acts. Now, since we can't ask and we are not supposed to tell then evidence would essentially be an observed homosexual act. The fact that it is observed in a military situation or by military personnel is what, in my opinion, would constitute a breakdown in good order and discipline.

This is a thread about eyes and eye conditions, right?

Duh, haven't you been reading?

Myopia - glasses - contacts - eye exam expensive - walmart is cheap - america sucks because no jobs - walmart has cheap toothpaste - military has healthcare - don'taskdon'ttell - lot's of gays in navy - tailhook - ???

Try to keep up!

The best Roman phalanxes were units consisting entirely of homosexual men.

he, hehe, you said "phalanxes", hehe

wookie06 is what they call "gay for the stay"

I want to see a unit in the military that's completely and unabashedly gay. Would there be greater combat effectiveness? Or at least morale be high?

It could be a very aggressive and combat effect unit. That is if they were all lesbian. And during certain periods...

There are those that say male homosexuals are better prepared soldiers. Apparantly they always have their ... stuff packed.

I am sooo going to get banned again.

hurr

What everyone else thinks.

except most everyone here likes vin, and most everyone here hates you

What everyone else thinks.

Wow, tag team ownage.

I think Vin is a pretty cool guy. Eh dates gentlemen and doesn't afraid of anything.