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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Inverted mouse poll!
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Inverted mouse poll!
2009-08-31, 8:19 AM #1
My brother and I constantly get into debates about which makes more sense: inverted mouse or not?

So I ask you what you all use!

Note: inverted means when you move the mouse DOWN, the view goes UP.
2009-08-31, 8:23 AM #2
In flying games, of course. It's how the flight stick would work in real life, and feels more natural. If you move the mouse down, it gives you the sensation of pulling up on the stick. However, using an inverted mouse for any other purpose seems rather silly.
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Sand Trap & Sand Trap (Night)
2009-08-31, 8:25 AM #3
I disagree for this reason, on the point of other times:

When you want to look up, you pull your head back. When you want to look down, you push your head forward. That's the point of major contention with my brother.
2009-08-31, 8:32 AM #4
Originally posted by Cool Matty:
When you want to look up, you pull your head back. When you want to look down, you push your head forward.

That's exactly the reason I always use an inverted set-up. Feels way more natural.
2009-08-31, 8:32 AM #5
I grew up playing late 80's/early 90's flight-sims with a crappy old joystick, way before shooters even really existed, so whenever I played my first shooter with mouselook (can't for the life of me remember what), inverted was the logical choice. It's funny because in college when my roommates and I played way too much Halo/Halo 2, they always found it so odd that I used inverted controls, yet I always destroyed them.
2009-08-31, 8:33 AM #6
Originally posted by Cool Matty:
I disagree for this reason, on the point of other times:

When you want to look up, you pull your head back. When you want to look down, you push your head forward. That's the point of major contention with my brother.


I guess that doesn't seem quite as natural due to the fact that when aiming in a first person perspective, the crosshair that is typically displayed on the hud gives you that aiming sense which brings you out of reality and more into a "I must line this crosshair up with my target" type of state. Because of that, I think most people have it configured to standard on their mouse because they want the cursor (or crosshair in this case) to mimic where they move their hand.
Author of the JK levels:
Sand Trap & Sand Trap (Night)
2009-08-31, 8:40 AM #7
Always
2009-08-31, 8:47 AM #8
Originally posted by Cool Matty:
I disagree for this reason, on the point of other times:

When you want to look up, you pull your head back. When you want to look down, you push your head forward. That's the point of major contention with my brother.


But the mouse is usually on a flat plane that's not on the x-axis. You can't really say it goes "up or down" like a head does vertically.

Additionally, you could argue that the crosshair is at the end of a pole that is sticking out of the player's face. When you move your mouse "up", the end of the pole moves up vertically thus forcing the pole-infused face to look up.
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2009-08-31, 8:48 AM #9
Originally posted by ECHOMAN:
But the mouse is usually on a flat plane that's not on the x-axis. You can't really say it goes "up or down" like a head does vertically.


My trackball does. Well, not physically up and down, but it rolls in a similar way.

Also, it's more the push and pull motion that CM was talking about, not up and down.
2009-08-31, 8:53 AM #10
You know, I've never actually cared about if I the mouse is inverted or not, if it feels weird I'll just tick the inverted box on or off.
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2009-08-31, 8:57 AM #11
Not usually, sometimes for flight, depending on the game. With a joystick, it's always inverted.

As far as effectiveness, your brain will figure it out and adapt over time, there really is no difference.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2009-08-31, 9:16 AM #12
Oh I agree about effectiveness. I've had a few games where you couldn't invert the camera controls (and those developers should be shot), and it took a while to get used to, but once you do, it's fine.

But inverted seems to make more sense.

@ECHOMAN: to use your pole idea, keep in mind how you actually move your head. To make that pole move up, you have to pull your head back. I signify that as pulling the mouse back towards me.
2009-08-31, 9:20 AM #13
I meant moving the end of the pole to control the head. Like getting your hands on it.

You can visualize the concept many different ways of what makes more "sense".
SnailIracing:n(500tpostshpereline)pants
-----------------------------@%
2009-08-31, 9:40 AM #14
Originally posted by ECHOMAN:
I meant moving the end of the pole to control the head. Like getting your hands on it.

You can visualize the concept many different ways of what makes more "sense".


Sure, if you want to be wrong. :eng101:

I still stand by the actual moving of the head, and not something in front of my head :p
2009-08-31, 9:44 AM #15
I always used to use inverted, but somewhere along the line I switched to normal, I can't really remember why though. I think I started playing a game that was normal x-axis mouse control on the xbox and got used to it, and i haven't tried switching back.
2009-08-31, 9:45 AM #16
Moving the mouse upwards is like moving your eyes and face upwards, which is equally valid a statement.
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2009-08-31, 9:45 AM #17
JK actually taught me this since it starts inverted by default. -- Always.
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2009-08-31, 9:45 AM #18
BTW, one of my favorite features on the 360 is the fact that it stores inverted y-axis info in your profile, and games use that info.
2009-08-31, 10:44 AM #19
I used to like it, but since more and more modern games seem to be defaulting to normal, I've switched. Now I can't stand inverted.
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2009-08-31, 11:02 AM #20
The human brain is adaptable enough that it really doesn't matter; you can switch back and forth pretty easily. No harder than switching between qwerty and dvorak keyboard layouts, anyway.
Stuff
2009-08-31, 11:34 AM #21
Originally posted by Cool Matty:
I disagree for this reason, on the point of other times:

When you want to look up, you pull your head back. When you want to look down, you push your head forward. That's the point of major contention with my brother.


QFBTWIWGTS.

...and now I shall go and read the rest of the thread!
2009-08-31, 11:45 AM #22
In the context of shooters, if you assume that you have a rifle shouldered or are aiming a pistol inverted actually is more realistic. You aren't going to just move your eyes up. The gun will move up, but the head will move back while trying to aim at something above you. Vice versa for aiming at something below.

The pole analogy is a little off. If it were just a pole moving around, the cross hair would move with in the area of vision on screen without that area changing. You'd bee seeing the gun and cross hair moving on the screen independently of where you are looking.
Pissed Off?
2009-08-31, 4:39 PM #23
I'm assuming "always" doesn't mean "in the desktop environment as well" (because that would be weird and useless)

I don't invert for PC games but I always invert in console shooters or starfox-type games
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2009-08-31, 5:12 PM #24
I hate when games have an "Inverted" option but the mouse is ALREADY inverted, and checking the box makes it non-inverted. Very confusing and annoying.

2009-08-31, 5:38 PM #25
The analogy I use to explain why I invert all games to people is this:

Imagine you were holding the back of a person's head to control where they looked. You would push your hand forward (up) to make them look down, and pull it back (down) to make them look up. It's the same in an FPS. My hand is effectively on the back of the character's head allowing me to navigate.
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2009-08-31, 5:51 PM #26
I like the head analogy thing, only problem is you don't push the head left or right to look in the opposite direction (well a few games have this option, but I don't use it).

2009-08-31, 5:54 PM #27
for you weird people who play with it inverted, do you invert your mouse for the Windows desktop as well?
woot!
2009-08-31, 6:00 PM #28
I started out inverted back in the original Half Life days. But then someone released a Rune mod for HL that I thought was pretty cool a the time, except that it did not allow for an inverted mouse! So I basically had to condition myself for at least a few hours, maybe even days, to get used to the non-inverted style, and I never went back since.
"Guns don't kill people, I kill people."
2009-08-31, 6:13 PM #29
Originally posted by JLee:
for you weird people who play with it inverted, do you invert your mouse for the Windows desktop as well?


No, because when you move a cursor up should move up. :eng101:

2009-08-31, 6:19 PM #30
Semi-related to this...

When you are on a page, and want to SCROLL down, do you say go down or go up?
I was trying to help my mom once doing something on a page, and I said go down. She scrolled up, making the "page" go down. I got in a huge argument with her about it, and she still refuses to change her opinion about what up/down means.

AHHH
I hope no one other than my retarded mom does that.
2009-08-31, 6:25 PM #31
If I'm flying, normally I'd have a joystick or something.

Otherwise, UP IS UP BECAUSE IT'S UP

Also: scroll down because you are moving to the bottom of the web page. I honestly never gave that any thought.
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2009-08-31, 6:28 PM #32
Originally posted by - Tony -:
If I'm flying, normally I'd have a joystick or something.

Otherwise, UP IS UP BECAUSE IT'S UP

Also: scroll down because you are moving to the bottom of the web page. I honestly never gave that any thought.


THIS.

/thread
woot!
2009-08-31, 6:51 PM #33
Originally posted by Squirrel King:
Semi-related to this...

When you are on a page, and want to SCROLL down, do you say go down or go up?
I was trying to help my mom once doing something on a page, and I said go down. She scrolled up, making the "page" go down. I got in a huge argument with her about it, and she still refuses to change her opinion about what up/down means.

AHHH
I hope no one other than my retarded mom does that.


If you press the SCROLL DOWN button and you don't think DOWN there's something wrong with you. :downs:
2009-08-31, 8:18 PM #34
Inverted y-axis all the way. Anything else is for communists, dinosaurs, hippies and terrorists.

In 2D XY mouse plane matches screen plane. Ergo no inversion.
In 3D XY mouse plane is movement around XZ axes, WS (from WASD) is Y plane, AD is X plane. Mouse left/right is roll around Z axis (yaw), mouse up/down is the same as rolling around the X axis (pitch). Ergo inversion is not only warranted, but a strike for truth, justice and the $COUNTRY way.

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2009-08-31, 8:23 PM #35
I used to invert axis for all games. I switched to non-inverted at which point I stopped sucking at FPS games.

EDIT: Actually, thinking about this reminded me that I used to play JK without a mouse at all. I used nothing but the keyboard when I started.
2009-08-31, 8:39 PM #36
Joysticks make inverting y-axis more intuitive than mice in a 3-D environment. On a 2-D screen where you pretty much translate hand movement on a screen. It is really counter intuitive.

For me, inverting y-axis in like a FPS, I really couldn't adapt. I was so used to "push mouse forward, cursor goes up." I guess to my brain, I'm still translating on a 2-D world even though it is a 3-D environment.
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2009-08-31, 8:49 PM #37
I never fly with the mouse, the only exception being Freelancer because the ****ers don't even give the option of joystick. Mouse is never inverted, joystick is always inverted.
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2009-08-31, 8:51 PM #38
Playing with mouse inverted or not makes sense, playing with a joystick not inverted makes no goddamn sense -_-
2009-08-31, 9:09 PM #39
Inverting the mouse is sort of like hanging toilet paper underhand - sure, you can defend it with all the fancy rationalizations and justifications you want, but it just feels wrong.
Stuff
2009-08-31, 9:14 PM #40
Inverted feels wrong to me. So Never.
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