We've all been wishing that for a looooooooong time.

SAJN, still not backed up

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Uh, living somewhere doesn't exactly help working out what it was like 200 years ago. I read the same European history books as you do.
Knowing the attitude? Read newspapers, opinion polls, that tends to make it perfectly clear. But that isn't really important.
My judgement was really just based on common sense. Society has changed a lot in the last 200 years, so it's a bit silly to follow the same beliefs and values and laws as 200 years ago.

Society's changed, but basic morals, thoughts and ideals haven't.

And it's not living here that makes me know how it feels to be an American--it's feeling the effects of all those that passed before me on the land I live in. It's talking to the people everyday. It's knowing what it's like to be proud of your country.

I guess I contradicted myself--it IS living here that makes me know how it feels to be an American.

Also, reading peoples opinions and their paper doesn't mean you know them. It means you know how they react to some things.

Don't get me wrong here, I'm not insulting or demeaning you in any way, I just don't like it when other people that live in other countries tell me that America is wrong, or is doing something wrong for some reason or another.

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Yet americans dont hesitate to invade other countries and reshape them as they see fit when they think they're doing something wrong.


You don't have to live in america to understand america - heck, you can probably understand it better by looking in from the outside. It's not some magical thing you have to feel to understand - and if you really think it is, then I feel very sorry for you.



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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

He's backed it up, you're just ignoring it.


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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

lol, now here the stupid thing - your from England - you have a damn sight better view then them as you do not get too bogged down in issues of Patriotism - you like America.

However, you can see what I 99.9% of the population of Europe know -BUSH IS THE WORST PRESIDENT I'VE EVER SEEN.

No offence to anyone who likes bush of course

Just remind them (as a joke) that Britian used to run America and see their reaction - then tell them its very sad to be annoyed about something that happened so long ago.

basically i'm no help

*walks away into the darkness*

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The Darkside? I've Been there. Do your Worst

Well, at least you have the intelligence to attach "I've ever seen," to your statement, with which I must agree. However, I think one of our worst presidents was either Hayes (the terms on which he gained office) or Hoover: "In Hoover we trusted, now we're busted."

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<ubuu> does hitler have a last name?
<jipe> .. yes, Ubuu, we're racist commy nazi jews, and we hate male pattern baldness
<Professor`K> Sorry, but half-way through your logic, my head exploded

One--that's Bush, pure Bush. I didn't say he was right, I didn't say I agreed with him, and as you may or may not know my opinion of him is fairly low.

Two--Like I said, you just don't know what it is to be an American, Flex.

Three--quoting other people doesn't back anything up. By back it up I meant explain yourself.

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Why do people enjoy talking about politics? Are there that many masochists in our society?

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The easiest way to kill a soldier is to make his commanding officer a politician.

[This message has been edited by Kieran Horn (edited August 30, 2004).]

*cough*FDR*cough* . If anybody disagrees, feel free to message me or brad about it. Brad will tell you allllll about it.

Anyways, the statement that people outside of the US know America a lot better thatn people who live in iside it does have some truth. There are plenty of people who are in US who are totally ignorant to the current situation. However, more and more people are becoming aware of some of the faults in America. Those are the ones who are[/] too patriotic. There is such a thing.

And also, regarding Kerry and Vietname that someone mention before, WHO THE HELL CARES! How does him being in Vietname show that he's a good president. Unless army formations and shooting people are involved as being part of your job as the president (individually), I see nothing of why Kerry serving in Vietnam shows that he'd be such a great president. I don't care if Kerry got 8 purple hearts truly, got his leg blown off, and his right eye gauged out, and was one of the best soliders in the entire army, that doesn't show he's a good president.

Delphian, just because you have one dear friend in a certain country, doesn't mean that we shouldn't attack them, or that you should vote for someone else. While if we did attack "X" I would hope for the best for your friend in "X" if he were in any sort of danger, that woudln't mean we wouldn't invade a country.

If I could vote, I'd vote for Bush. Like stated before, the main basis that John Kerry is using you to vote for is him serving in Vietnam. I swear I see 9 of those ads everday, and it just proves that he doesn't erally have a plan. If Saddamm Hussein went to Vietnam, does that mean I should vote for him too if he ran for president? I don't see anything else in his ads. At least Bush's ads relate to economy and politics (even if they are wrong). If Bush wants to get anywhere, one thing he is doing wrong is concentrating on the war on terrorism. If he wants more voters, he better stat putting out ads describing he Americans, not the Iraquis. I want OUR country to prosper, not someone elses and send ours to the trash.

anyways, that's my rant, proceed in ripping it to shreds and being stubborn

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"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"

[This message has been edited by mscbuck (edited August 30, 2004).]

EDIT: I was overly fishy.

Sigh...I'll be nice because I'm nice.

[This message has been edited by LonelyDagger (edited August 30, 2004).]

Eh...I hope you're kidding.

Flexor's a good guy, I just disagree with him when it comes to politics, at least US politics.

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BACKED UP!!!! Stop being ignorant. It's right infront of you, everytime you say that it just makes you look more idiotic, so please for the love of christ and all his sweet creations stop talking about things you know nothing about. It's things like that ^ that make us Americans look like super proud ignorant jerks.

'You don't know what it's like to be an american! Proud, free, not 3rd world like Canada! How could you possibly know ANYTHING about America, you don't even live here! How could you know about our history like it was 200 years ago?! You weren't there! You don't live in America' Well 200 years ago I don't think any of us were alive, and anyone can give fair judgement on americas history by reading..what are they called..oh right, books.

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(>º_º)> ±h³ ѳv³®-£ⁿd¡תּ9 §±ºr¥ <(º_º<) | (>º_º)> תּℓζ ШǿѓЖ§|-Юρ <(º_º<)

What the. Rebuilding Iraq should be the number one priority, above everything else. If that affects the American economy, or if the American standard of life goes down, then it doesn't matter. Improving the lives of Iraqis should definitely go above everything else. Iraq was invaded by America. They didn't ask for it. Most of them didn't even want it. Iraqis are dying because of the invasion. Iraq is probably going see a civil war in the not too distant future, because of the invasion. Iraq is America's mess, and America must clear it up, before anything else. Yes, the UN could probably provide useful assistance, but the UN never sanctioned the invasion so it really isn't their responsibility. All the funds going towards rebuilding Iraq should come from America and Britain, and the other coalition members.

Well, I can't vote, BUT, Ican have an opinion.


So, we all know Bush has done a bad job so far, so I definately don't want him for another four years. My family is Republican, so Kerry is kind of out of the picture...
But, he can't be any worse than Bush. I don't understand, why can't people from other countries have an opinion?

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"Bantha's are filthy animals.......I don't eat filthy animals."

"Laugh it up Fuzzball!"
-Han Solo

SAJN, no. I didn't say Canada was a 3rd world country. I said it's different to live in other countries than the US, because in a lot of countries people don't have pride in their country or any sense of patriotism. Get your facts straight, and stop putting words in my mouth.

I didn't say that I was there 200 years ago either. I just have more distinct ideal of how it is to be American, and what they meant oh-so-many years ago when they set out to liberate the country I live in.

I agree with Mort though--We (yes, we, including the congress. They went along with Bush) ****ed up in Iraq, we should un**** it.

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[This message has been edited by Dj Yoshi (edited August 30, 2004).]

Exactly.


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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

Mort, that's not MY opinion.I was saying that Bush is losing some people because he's not concentrating on America.

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"His Will Was Set, And Only Death Would Break It"

"None knows what the new day shall bring him"

People everywhere have some sense of patriotism. It's just that americans take it to a point of extreme fanatism.



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WAITER: Here’s your green salad, sir.
ANAKIN: What? You fool, I told you NO CROUTONS! Aaaaaaargh!

Whatever you want to think

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No they don't.

Patriotism has been steadily declining throughout Europe, with the exception of Norway. Mainland European countries have always had a lot of integration and interaction with eachother, being of the same landmass it's pretty inevitable. When you're in Austria, you'll find lots of Italians, Croatians, Hungarians, Slovaks, Czechs, and of course Germans. When you're in Denmark, you'll find lots of Germans, Poles, Finns, Swedes and Norwegians. You don't need a passport to travel within Scandinavia, they're pretty much treated as one country.

National pride is fairly nonexistant when every country is totally full of foreigners. And national pride would really get in the way when European countries really have to work together and integrate and organise themselves as one. There really isn't much point in national pride. Being 'independant' really isn't an option anymore, not for any country.


The Middle East may not have the same level of integration, but national pride isn't really a big issue there either. The uniting factor is Islam, and Islam has no boundaries.

I love how in the USA, when 9/11 happened the day after it happened everyone was singing songs, buying CD's with all american songs on it, and everyone had a flag on their car, or on their house. A year or so later, where did all the flags go? "Patriotic since 9/11". Yeah w00, go me, I have flag!!! I'm so patriotic! I even donated to the Jimmy Fund last month at the theater! I'm a true american! America is the greatest country ever! *skip a few months after 9/11* I lost my flag, but there isn't a need for it anyway, 9/11 was what? months ago, thats what. No I wouldn't like to donate to the jimmy fund, now if you'll excuse me I'm late for work.

It's sickening.

Everyone has some sense of patriotism, but the thing is, as sad as it sounds, they only have it when they NEED it. Which isn't true patriotism :/. Yay 4th of July put up the red white and blue, have a cookout and watch fireworks....but why are we doing this? Who cares, it's a day off from work, I get to hang out and drink beer!!! Memorial Day? Why that's the day all the good movies get released! Right? What else could it be for?

I just recently went up to Nova Scotia for a week, while I was there I learned about much Canadian history, Acadian History and French history. I met tons of people all over Nova Scotia (we travled over 6 hours some days). The people there for the most part seemed so proud to be Nova Scotian, Canadian, or Acadian. They really seemed to take pride in it. But then again, what do I know? I don't live in Canada, I just learned about it's history and met it's people for a week.

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I agree whole-heartedly with SAJN. Patriotism is a thing people in America wear on their sleeve.

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