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☖ Forums → Discussion Forum → Do you believe in some kind of greater supernatural being?
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Do you believe in some kind of greater supernatural being?
2009-10-05, 9:21 AM #41
"Perfect" is too strong of a word, I agree, but it's obviously very ordered. I don't understand how could try to claim otherwise.
2009-10-05, 10:07 AM #42
God is like an imaginary number, like the square root of negative one. It may not exist, but if you include it in your equations, you can calculate all manners of things which could not be imagined without it.
2009-10-05, 10:13 AM #43
The universe to me looks about as ordered as spatter from an almost-empty can of spraypaint. I suppose it depends on your definition of order. It's not like it's organized from biggest to smallest or by color.
Warhead[97]
2009-10-05, 10:21 AM #44
The complexity of relationships between given things is bewildering. From the hypothetical in and out of existence to animals that mimic other animals to human beings with their vast societies. I understand the admiration of our complexity, but that doesn't necessarily mean we have to be guided.

If you shuffle a deck of cards, the arrangement you end up with is infinitesimally small and unique, and to the King of Hearts, his placement behind the 4 of Clubs and 8 of Spades seems purposeful. What other way could it be but this? If it were not this way, it'd be another. The fruitlessness of nature is proof enough that there is no cause here, just lots of mistakes that contain meaningful data to other mistakes.
ᵗʰᵉᵇˢᵍ๒ᵍᵐᵃᶥᶫ∙ᶜᵒᵐ
ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2009-10-05, 10:22 AM #45
I would like to see the origin of the universe explained in something that makes more sense, and actually agrees with the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Big fact a lot of big bangers and evolutionists tend to skip over.
"They're everywhere, the little harlots."
-Martyn
2009-10-05, 10:26 AM #46
Originally posted by BobTheMasher:
The universe to me looks about as ordered as spatter from an almost-empty can of spraypaint. I suppose it depends on your definition of order. It's not like it's organized from biggest to smallest or by color.


Every time I throw a baseball into the air, it falls down. If I throw it the exact same way under the exact same conditions, in lands in the exact same place.

Every time I drop a lit match into a can of gasoline, it ignites. Every time the sun goes "down", the temperature drops.

That's order, not chaos. Those are just anecdotal evidences, but there are infinitely numerous and infinitely more elaborate physical and biological processes that are extremely structured and ordered. There are certain "rules" or "laws" that are in place and cannot be violated. Why is there life on earth, but none on the moon? The moon doesn't meet the criteria. It doesn't fit into the rules. Order.
2009-10-05, 10:32 AM #47
Sure, but who is to say that those rules are not also random? Just because they are constant (from our perspective), that doesn't lend them meaning.
Warhead[97]
2009-10-05, 10:54 AM #48
Originally posted by Onimusha:
I would like to see the origin of the universe explained in something that makes more sense, and actually agrees with the 2nd law of thermodynamics.


That law deals with closed systems, which neither the Earth nor any of the creatures found on it are. I don't know enough about theoretical physics to defend the big bang against it, but it is certainly not a valid argument against evolution. Entropy is why organisms have to fight so hard to continue to exist. Those that have succeeded remain.
Why do the heathens rage behind the firehouse?
2009-10-05, 12:13 PM #49
Originally posted by BobTheMasher:
Sure, but who is to say that those rules are not also random? Just because they are constant (from our perspective), that doesn't lend them meaning.


It doesn't matter if, in some sort of huge sense, the rules are random. The fact remains that the rules are in place, for whatever reason, and everything is bound by the rules.
2009-10-05, 12:34 PM #50
So because there's rules there has to be a rule maker?
ᵗʰᵉᵇˢᵍ๒ᵍᵐᵃᶥᶫ∙ᶜᵒᵐ
ᴸᶥᵛᵉ ᴼᵑ ᴬᵈᵃᵐ
2009-10-05, 12:39 PM #51
RTFT
2009-10-05, 1:40 PM #52
Originally posted by Steven:
RTFT


Hehe.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
The Triumph of Stupidity in Mortals and Others 1931-1935
2009-10-05, 2:10 PM #53
Quote:
Every time I drop a lit match into a can of gasoline, it ignites.


Really? Have you ever actually tried this?
2009-10-05, 2:11 PM #54
I believe in beings that have probably evolved beyond anything we can imagine, but nothing deserves to be called God
2009-10-05, 2:16 PM #55
Originally posted by Couchman:
I believe in beings that have probably evolved beyond anything we can imagine, but nothing deserves to be called God


ancients?
"They're everywhere, the little harlots."
-Martyn
2009-10-05, 2:43 PM #56
Originally posted by Onimusha:
ancients?


Regis Philbin.
2009-10-05, 3:10 PM #57
Originally posted by need help:
Why would I believe in something that nobody has ever seen, experienced or felt? We just 'know' it exists because a couple of thousand years ago, some guys decided to write a funny book about a guy walking on water. That, we take seriously!

When I talk about some texts, written a couple of thousand years ago about a god causing thunder, and children jumping from his head when he headache, people start to laugh.

I believe in a greater supernatural being just as much as that teapot that is circling around the sun and the invisible pink unicorn.

I do however believe, that no matter what a person believes, and no matter how ignorant that person is, we could still just respect (or, just, walk away and let it rest) what that person says.


Yeah pretty much the same here.
Flying over there some were...
2009-10-05, 3:21 PM #58
Originally posted by JM:
Really? Have you ever actually tried this?


(yes, and generally speaking, it does)
Warhead[97]
2009-10-05, 3:28 PM #59
No. There's no evidence. Believing in something without evidence is idiotic.
? :)
2009-10-05, 3:32 PM #60
Originally posted by JM:
Really? Have you ever actually tried this?


I have :ninja:
$do || ! $do ; try
try: command not found
Ye Olde Galactic Empire Mission Editor (X-wing, TIE, XvT/BoP, XWA)
2009-10-05, 3:47 PM #61
Through my experiences I have never had any indication what-so-ever that there is a god or higher being.

For that reason, I do not believe in any.
Sneaky sneaks. I'm actually a werewolf. Woof.
2009-10-05, 4:11 PM #62
Originally posted by JM:
Really? Have you ever actually tried this?

I'm pretty sure it would ignite, even if it was full, because there would still be enough oxygen from the environment for the vapor to mix with. It would not explode, however.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2009-10-05, 4:47 PM #63
Originally posted by need help:
Why would I believe in something that nobody has ever seen, experienced or felt?



Arguable..

and yes.
2009-10-05, 8:26 PM #64
No, yet to see any evidence of one.
2009-10-05, 9:33 PM #65
Why are humans so perfect? Is it because we were made in God's image or because we are one of the luckiest creatures to evolve in this random, chaotic universe?

2009-10-05, 9:36 PM #66
Originally posted by BombayZeus:
Why are humans so perfect?


So non-perfect humans disprove the existence of god?
Why do the heathens rage behind the firehouse?
2009-10-05, 9:48 PM #67
Originally posted by BobTheMasher:
The universe to me looks about as ordered as spatter from an almost-empty can of spraypaint. I suppose it depends on your definition of order. It's not like it's organized from biggest to smallest or by color.


so the fact...er i mean apparent coincidence that nearly everything i existence from a single cell to a galaxy, and even the very universe itself is made up of smaller and smaller units is not only not to be considered orderly, but is in fact proof of this chaotic randomness?
Welcome to the douchebag club. We'd give you some cookies, but some douche ate all of them. -Rob
2009-10-05, 9:59 PM #68
so if things weren't made up of smaller and smaller units, what would they be made of?
2009-10-05, 11:36 PM #69
Originally posted by Vornskr:
so if things weren't made up of smaller and smaller units, what would they be made of?


Bigger units!
2009-10-05, 11:36 PM #70
:psyduck:
2009-10-05, 11:41 PM #71
I have a bigger unit

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
2009-10-06, 12:15 AM #72
I believe in THE MAZZTER.
2009-10-06, 12:21 AM #73
Originally posted by BombayZeus:
Why are humans so perfect? Is it because we were made in God's image or because we are one of the luckiest creatures to evolve in this random, chaotic universe?


Humans are not perfect except by the definition that humans themselves created
一个大西瓜
2009-10-06, 2:57 AM #74
Humans are far from perfect. We still have useless remnants from our evolutionary past, for instance. However, if the percentage of fat people keeps rising & those fat ****s keeping mating, we'll end up eating ourselves out of existence anyways so none of it really matters...
? :)
2009-10-06, 3:13 PM #75
Isn't the power of knowledge the perfect evolutionary trait?

2009-10-06, 3:59 PM #76
Calling anything "perfect" is an aesthetic call. It's unlikely you're going to convince anyone of a religious claim by making an aesthetic one.... chances are, if they don't share your religious beliefs, they don't share your aesthetics.
2009-10-06, 4:48 PM #77
Originally posted by Mentat:
Humans are far from perfect. We still have useless remnants from our evolutionary past, for instance. However, if the percentage of fat people keeps rising & those fat ****s keeping mating, we'll end up eating ourselves out of existence anyways so none of it really matters...


Too bad obesity is a social and economic problem and not a biological one so your unstated support of eugenics is rather misplaced.

hth.
2009-10-06, 5:07 PM #78
I don't disagree with you, but there is some basis for obesity (and other metabolic disorders) having biological characteristics in addition to social and economic.

The Thrifty Gene Hypothesis attempts to explain why obesity and diabetes are so common when they are clearly Bad For You. You would expect these sorts of things to be unfavourably selected during evolution. But that's not what happened (theoretically anyway).

Due to periods of feast and famine during human evolution, genes that promoted storage of energy were favourably selected. Good if we're living 10,000 years ago, not so good for today when high energy foods are reasonably abundant. Since we still have these genes, almost everyone is predisposed to gaining weight, some more so than others. Of course whether or not you actually become overweight is the result of how predisposed you are plus the social and economic factors you mentioned before.
2009-10-06, 5:53 PM #79
The key being "almost everyone." Those who aren't obese aren't free from the consequences of the aforementioned social and economic conditions, either. That's what doctors would call 'asymptomatic.'

I think it's really important to point out the fact that obesity is more prevalent among the lower two income quintiles. The way I see it, this leads you to make a difficult choice:

1.) Obesity is not genetic. The Free Market economy is no longer making the best supply decisions. The American way of life is a lie, etc.

2.) Obesity is genetic. The American Dream of upward mobility is a lie. The American way of life is a lie, etc.
2009-10-06, 6:23 PM #80
The American way of life is not a lie. How can it be a lie, when clearly many people are living it? Perhaps you meant that the American way of life is bad for people?
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