Does any one here have any experience with depression? I have been suffering from some kind of depression for at least 4-5 years, and I'm having trouble getting it diagnosed. I'd like to get some kind of treatment, but I'd like some advice on where to start.

I went to a doctor at the beginning of this semester and was referred to a psychologist who talked with me for a while and had me fill out a bunch of boring questions to clear me for insurance. When I went back to the doctor he proscribed me some Aderall, which I eventually quit taking because it didn't do anything. At the next visit I didn't really follow up with anything else because I had been feeling unusually well for a while. (I had been feeling that way before I tried the Aderall.) Trouble is, that feeling turned out to be temporary, and probably the result of me taking the summer off for the first time since high school. I also don't really feel like there was any change in the underlying problem during that time, it was more of a distraction from it.

Symptoms:

I'm in my junior year of college, studying electrical/computer engineering at the University of Louisville. I've noticed the issue develop since at least my junior or sophomore year of high school. I don't have intense bouts of negative feelings. Rather, my problem seems to be that I have very few significant feelings at all. Every pleasure seems trivial and purposeless. When things go wrong, they are annoyances that can be coped with. (This part is good)

It almost seems like I don't enjoy pleasure. I very rarely am in a position where I do have fun or feel pleasure, but when I do, it somehow lacks meaning or significance, in a way that I find difficult to explain. It's always very shallow, almost boring, and I feel no motivation to cultivate my social life so that I can have more experiences like it.

It's not just things like pleasure/pain that have become meaningless, more subtle emotions seem to be gone as well. The feelings you get from experiencing things like amazing or impressive weather are gone as well. The world feels grey, like the soul has gone out of everything. I feel like everything could be expressed in terms of vertices, shaders and textures on a hard drive with out losing anything at all. It makes the world seem like an a stream of arbitrary configurations of mass and energy.

Everything is always neutral. It's not the sort of thing you would notice on a day to day basis, but over the course of years it's unbearable. It feels completely hopeless, not because I merely can't achieve happiness, but because the conditions for achieving it do not exist. I have all but forgotten what I feels like to be happy or have hope, but I do remember that I did, and it is unbelievably frustrating.

The closest thing I have found to my problem is this, except I certainly don't have any self-esteem or guilt issues.
http://www.psychologyinfo.com/depression/dysthymic.htm

Any advice about doctors or medication would be greatly appreciated.

I, too, have depression. I've had it for the majority of my life. Let me tell you of my experience.

I underwent, in the mid-to-late 90's, aggressive treatment (SSRI trials) and therapy for minor depression. However, I had a several adverse reactions to the medication that, at the time, was understood as only a worsening of my condition. Thus the increase of dosages and, in effect, the worsening of the reaction. The reaction was in the form of major depression, skitzophrenia, bipolar tendancies, and OCD. After discontinuing the medication, I still suffer from these to varying degrees, but not as extreme as they used to.

Having this said, I'm NOT trying to discourage you from seaking treatment. For some time, I studied psychology. In my studies, I learned that (in some forms of depression, like mine) treatment is more effective when coupled with changes in lifestyle. Without such changes, medication would be less effective, if not harmful to the condition. It is my belief that all conditions would be better treated if conditions in the patient's life are improved during or before treatment.

I would suggest seeing couselors first, before going the route of seaking medication. Even small improvements to your life would, probably, improve the effectiveness of the treatment conciderably.

If the condition improves after lifestyle changes, you should still try to seak treatment, since the recurrance of feelings in the form of doubts and mood swings may be possible. In addition, after beginning medication, communication with your doctors and couselor is extremely important. Any adverse feelings you may get while on the medication is, most likely, a sign that it isn't working for you, not a sign that you're getting worse.

That's all I can think of at the moment.

Life is depressing. Get over it.

Best of luck to you, Obi. I don't have anything in the way of useful advice, but I'm glad to see that you're not helpless in analyzing your situation and looking for a change. Hang in there, and keep us posted of any progress

There are many different types of therapists out there, with different approaches and methods. You will find that the vast majority of therapists are only interested in CBT and medication. I think those courses of treatment would be ineffective in your case. It sounds like your concerns stem from more existential issues.

It would make sense that you would feel temporarily better with Adderall. Amphetamines usually cause a sense of euphoria.

I would say avoid medication if possible.

I have slight manic depression and general anxiety disorder and the medication either aggrivates the condition or the side effects aren't worth the benefit.
St. John's Wort works well as a homeopathic solution. I would advise to see a psychologist. I've found the holistic approach seems to work best.


Best of luck to you.

I find this very true.

Free? How did you get into Zully's account?

Please ignore any advice for homeopathic solutions.

See a doctor and get medication, and go see a shrink. The medication can give you a "quick fix" and then you can work out the emotional/mental problems so that don't need to continue the medication.

Note that there are different types of depression and it can be more mental or more hormonal, but overall thats a pretty good rule of thumb.

Astounding revelation: a psychological problem is easily cured with a psychological treatment.

haha, knee slapper

You don't have depression. Just ennui.

Seriously. What is wrong with people today? Just because you aren't all la la la skipping through a ****ing meadow doesn't mean you're depressed.

I suggest setting some sort of goal, and then trying to achieve it.

Who gave him that title?

Astounding revelation: a chemical problem is easily cured with a chemical treatment.

People should shut up if they don't have experience with mental illness.

But then there couldn't be ANY replies to this thread!

don't look at me, onimusha's the one who said it.

I don't know, I think quite a few massassians suffer from some sort of mental illness.

also: you're a beautiful snowflake and nobody else could have possibly gone through what you have.

I think talk therapy is something that should always be tried before resorting to medication. Not to discount medication, of course sometimes it's needed, but it should never be the first option one explores.

I've listened to way too many rants by my old Psych professor. "It treats the symptoms, not the cause!!" Then again I wrote my thesis on a somewhat similar concept.

My own little aside...aside, I hope you get the help you need, whether it's therapy or medication.

Hang in there man. We all have bouts of depression at one point or another in our lives. A lot of times over analyzing situations or things may make you depressed. Take it easy, don't take anything too seriously. Watch Carl Sagan's Cosmos series. It will make you appreciate the beauty of your very being.

Depression doesn't always include feelings of sadness. Apathy, indifference to pleasure a lack of motivation and passion for life does indeed fit the description of clinical depression.

I have schitzoaffective disorder (bi-polar type)

I'm glad you want to find help. Do not be like me and always wait until it is so bad. Sometimes to even get to see a professional it may take weeks to get in.

It has different parts to it but one of them that sticks out for me the most is the severe depression. I've been on quite a bit of meds.

When it come to meds each person reacts to them differently. And they also take a lot of time to even kick in (2-6weeks). Many times it is a game of lets see if this works...Wait...OK maybe you just need a higher dose...Wait...Lets try adding this drug too. It gets frustrating. But some people do find stuff that works for them.

I do not believe that meds are the only answer. Everybody wants a magic pill that will make it all better right away. Therapy can just be just as good maybe even better if you combine it with the drug that works for you. Psychotropic drugs and therapy are not the only things in the arsenal to fight depression. Making some changes help. Although it isn't my favorite thing in the world, exercise is a good anti-depressant. Drugs alone are not going to do it all, therapy alone might not do it all, making changes alone might not do it. Fighting depression is like war. You probably will have to fight it with all kinds of weapons.

Another thing I would suggest doing if you have not done so, is to test your thyroid. People get diagnosed with depression and get anti-depressants shoved at them when really the reason they feel down, can't concentrate, have a lack of motivation is because they have hyperthyroidism.



meds that I have been on:

Paxil - (used to treat depression and anxiety)

I was on it very shortly (i was one of those who experienced the sudden increase of suicidal thoughts) then I was put on:

Effexor XR - (used to treat depression and anxiety)

The biggest thing I noticed with this was that my concentration really improved. But it would sometimes make me dizzy. Or worse I could feel my heart pounding hard when on it. I tried to tell my Doc at the time that it was doing this but didn't listen. I eventually just took my self off of it against orders.

Buspar-(anti-anxiety)

I might as well have been sucking on sugar cubes

Topamax-(anti-seizure)

Was supposed to be something to help me sleep...did not like made me feel even more like a zombie in the morning. Stopped it against orders.

Xanex - (anti-anxiety)

Ahhh Xanex oh yeah it relaxed me, too much (must ...keep ...eyes.. open) Oh and don't forget Addicting. Was not on it long because of that reason.

So, those were the ones when I was told it was a depression and anxiety problem.

I went about 5 years with out meds, stuff that I learned in theraphy helped a bunch for the anxiety part.

Then in Fall 2008 I went into crisis again.

at that point it was you have severe depression with a wee bit of psychosis.

Ativan - (anti-anxiety and other purposes)

Mostly given to when hospitalized to calm me down. ahhh Ativan you really work until I build a tolerance for you. Not only did you calm me quick I felt funny in a "good" way. (Extra interesting when given through IV) No wonder you are so addicting.

Prozac - (anti-depressant)

It worked a little bit once I was on a high dose, but wasn't enough.

Abilify - (Anti-psychotic)

I was given this at the time to be used to be a boost to the Prozac. Experienced one of the severe side effects ... after two very small doses, no matter how much I tried, I couldn't urinate.

Trazodone - (anti-depressant)

Anti-depressant boost plus a sleep aid. Yeah it made me sleepy but it also ate at my stomach.

Vistaril - (antihistamine)

OK you might be wondering why an antihistamine? This one is also used for anxiety. I am still on this one. Makes me sleepy but does help.

Then there was hospital stay #2.

This time we recognized I do have mood swings. I was on Prozac, Vistaril, and Trazodone at that time. If I remember right. So to help with the swings in mood I was prescribed Depakote.

Depakote - (anti-seizure mood stabilizer)

I feel that this did help me feel more even. but in the end it gave me more trouble than what it was worth. Depakote is one that should be prescribed based on therapeutic blood levels. So if you are on this you should be getting regular blood tests done to test the level of it and to check on your liver. So in addition to the cost of the drug there is the cost of the regular testing. Part of the reason that I was taken off this drug was it makes my liver angry.

Then I started to explain to my doctor more of the stuff that gets weird. The voice that pretty much wants me dead. At times I get an intense feeling that my thought was so loud that a someone heard it. The time I pass a group of people who I do not know and do not know me. I think they are talking about me and I swear one of them says my first and last name. So then I get:

Geodon - (anti-psychotic)

I think I did benefit from it but it did more harm than good. First off it made me gain a bunch off weight. Then started to get this thing where my eyes would go back and forth rapidly. (then put on another drug to help counter act that) And then WTF am I lactating? yeah this stuff can mess with your prolactin levels. And this just doesn't happen to women, it can also make guys start producing milk too. (put on another drug to counter that, then on another drug to counter act a side effect of that drug)
Then it also made Mr. Liver very angry.

Celexa - (anti-depressant)

I think it did help. But I have been taken off of it.

Wellbutrin - (anti-depressant)

I don't think I have been on this long enough to tell if it is helping.



I don't expect my life to be always la la la la everything is happy. Feeling sad and down here and there is fine. Feeling down,sad,hopeless most of the time and for quite a bit of time is a different thing. To be wheee! the world is friggen great, YAY! I have so much energy and ideas, all the time isn't normal either.

Obviously as seen in this thread ignorance on this topic is and the stigma surrounding it is still strong. People who really do need help often don't seek help because of this. And people (especially a family member) might be afraid to say or do anything for someone with a mental illness because they are afraid that it will somehow reflect badly on them.

Also for clarification to those that don't get it, a psychologist != a psychiatrist.

A psychologist is someone you want to visit if you want to talk out your depression. They don't focus on drugs (and often aren't even allowed to prescribe any), instead on other methods of dealing with depression. As mentioned before I would try this approach first.

A psychiatrist is someone who is going to try and treat it with more than just the above. They're the ones that will prescribe the drugs and such. I would only see one of these if a psychologist doesn't work out for you first.

Also keep in mind that no one here is a doctor and the best anyone has to offer is their own experiences which especially in the field of the mind is different for everyone.

You have it backwards, psychiatrists are the doctors (who can prescribe drugs).

Views like this are a tiny, tiny minority. Blame it on the cargo cult model of psychology. I also had a professor like this, he was probably my favorite of all the professors I've had. He was also pathologically afraid of students, so I was never able to build a rapport with him.

[QUOTE=Cool Matty]Also for clarification to those that don't get it, a psychologist != a psychiatrist.[/quote]

As explained by an anonymous psychiatrist: The difference between you and us is that you (psychologists) go to school for five years and study psychology, while we (psychiatrists) go to school for six years and study internal medicine, surgery, and all other disciplines of medicine, but only got two 1-credit semesters of psychiatry which, back then, we did not even take seriously.

*facepalm*

You're right, yay for posting while sick and dead tired. That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. Editing post >.>

It's still not true. Most psychologists are in favor of drug therapy and even if they can't prescribe them themselves, they'll recommend their primary care physician to prescribe them, who generally will, with only basic questions asked to establish due diligence.

A clinician's degree does not necessarily determine what sorts of treatments they prefer. The vast majority of clinicians, whether MD, DO, PhD, PsyD, MSW, LCSW, RN etc etc are going to want to do drug therapy in 75% of cases and CBT 100%.

That's why I'm in favor of medicine first, then therapy. Treating the symptoms makes it easier to be able to deal with the underlying cause.

I realize it depends on the individual, but what sort of therapies would you, stat, generally see as ideal for people with depression and/or anxiety symptoms?

And don't get me wrong - the Psych professor in question knew that medication was necessary in many cases, he just thought that it was prescribed far too often and too quickly.

Homeopathic solutions by their definition cannot work. Here's the idea of homeopathy: Take whatever substance that ails you, then dilute it 1000 times, then do it again 1000 times and again 1000 times. Homeopathic solutions cannot contain any of the original substance. Not like it matters since the original substance isn't even what you want.

Example, say you want a sleeping pill. A homeopathic sleeping pill might have caffeine that has been diluted so many times there is no caffeine left in the solution. The idea is that the rest of the solution contains the "ghost structure" of the original and thus cures illness.

Homeopathy was created by a quack in the 19th century. People laughed at him then, it ruined his career. Because it makes no sense and does not work. Now, some clever marketing ****heads decided it would be a good idea to sell it to people.

Every homeopathic medicine, every one ever made, is a placebo. No exceptions.

Best post of this thread.

Uhh. I don't see anywhere where he said psychologists were against drug therapy. He just said they "don't focus on drugs" (exact quote). I think you read a little too far into his post.

Anyway, my thoughts:

I think what you're feeling is a lot more common than you think. A few years ago, I was feeling very similar. At the time, I couldn't really nail down any specific emotions (sadness, anger, etc) that I was feeling, but just felt very bland and "meh" about everything all the time. My days would seem to pass by in a haze, and I had a lot of trouble finding any motivation to do anything. I can remember now specific times when my friends and family would invite me to go hang out or something, and I just wouldn't feel like going and would make excuses as to why I couldn't make it before I even thought it through. I'd like to say I recognized what was going on, like you seem to have, but I didn't. Instead a few things happened in my life (one was meeting Andrea) that partially tugged me out of that funk, which allowed me to take a step back and recognize what was happening. Once I identified it, I made some pretty drastic changes in my life and within about 6 months, I was in the Navy, living in a different part of the country, and married. Now I look back on those times with a real clarity about what I was going through, and wonder how I failed to notice at first that I was so depressed. It's kinda like being a bit near-sighted and getting glasses for the first time. You put them on and everything comes into focus and you suddenly wonder how you never noticed your eyesight was so bad before.

Now, that said, I'm not necessarily reccomending that you make huge changes in your life. That was what I needed, but it might not be what you need. You'll have to evaluate that for yourself. But I would say that there's a definite possibility that there may be nothing seriously wrong with your mind and you may just need to step back and take a look at your life and decide if you like where it's at and where it's headed. Ask yourself some hard questions, and evaluate if you need to make any changes.

Also, I don't know much about you, but from reading your initial post, I gather that you may be a bit of a hermit. You mentioned not wanting to go out and socialize. Do you have any close friends? Do you have a girlfriend (boyfriend if you swing that way :P)? Human beings are naturally social creatures and if you take that away, you're not ever going to feel very balanced. So if you're not doing so already, reach out and try to make some friends, and try and spend some time out being social (even if it's just one night a week). You may not feel the desire to do so now, but once you get over that initial hump, you might realize that you just didn't know what you were missing. Even *introverted people need to spend time socializing.

(My take on intro/extroverts.

Introvert: Someone who re-energiezes and "recharges" by spending time alone.
Extrovert: Someone who re-energizes and "recharges" by spending time with friends.

Both of them need socialization just as much. It's just a difference in when they need it in relation to their emotional state, rather than a difference in how much they need it.)

Lastly,, take courage in the fact that you're noticing a problem. You said that you have no desire or emotiional response to pleasure, but the fact that you're taking steps to fix the problem says otherwise to me. If you truly didn't desire pleasure, you wouldn't care that your life felt "neutral" right now.


Anyway, that's alll I got. I hope you find some of it helpful. Evaluate and do what works for you. If you want to try medications, try medications. If you want to talk to a psyche or a shrink, talk to a psyche or a shrink. Just constantly continue to evaluate your emotional state and pay attention to what's helping and what isn't, and go from there.

There is no ideal. It depends entirely upon the individual.

An interesting note on medication, there was a study done in the UK a couple years back (I wish I remember what the name of it was), that was testing the effectiveness of St John's Wort versus placebo (in psych studies around 30-60% effectiveness). They decided to add in one of the SSRIs, I think it was Paxil, and found that it was barely statistically significant over placebo. There's a number of different reasons why this could happen but this is the only study that I'm aware of that wasn't paid for by the pharmaceutical companies who want to market the drug.

First off, some people with psychological issues will avoid seeing a psychologist, and just receive a prescription from their doctor.

Hurr.




Secondly, with some people, chemical drugs react negatively to their bodies. For example, I have a seratonin imbalance issue, but no matter what anti-depressant I take (and I've been through 5 already) they either increase depression, or give me very negative side effects. (see Voodoosnowflake's post)

Psychological drugs are NOT for everyone, and I'm pretty sure they say that on every label and commercial out there for them.

Hurr x2.

Yeah, I think it's unfair to call St John's Wort a homeopathic solution. It's made from some plant, but I don't think it's diluted to infinity. It's a herbal solution, therefore a ****ty solution, but maybe not quite as pointless as homeopathy.

Herbs == ****ty?

The whole field is a load of croc. These 'doctors' diagnose confused people with made up diseases so they can take their money. There's nothing wrong with most of the people who think they are depressed. They have no idea what real depression is.

Obi_kwiet is perfectly fine, but he's desperate to find some disease, something that can be treated with medication, so he can get rid of it without making any effort. He's unwilling to admit that his ennui is his fault, so he searches for something blame it on. Ironically, his aversion to making an effort at examining his life and discovering what's wrong with it is a symptom of the disease he believes he has.

Well, 'herbal' remedies do have some active chemicals, so probably have some effect and St. John's Wort does have some efficacy above a placebo. Real medicine has its origins in herbal remedies, finding stuff that works, isolating the active chemical and making a pill out of it. It irritates me when 'alternative therapists' pretend that these herbal remedies are somehow a radical new discovery.

Depression is a very real disease, and the whole "shut the **** up and get on with life" response is an entirely assbackward view that helps nothing. If something traumatic has happened and there's a severe onset of depression, then a short course of anti-depressant medication can help a lot and let you get on with life and prevent long-term depression.
Long-term depression is much more complicated, and is often coupled with alcoholism or drug abuse, and medication won't always help unless there's an active change in ones life or support structure and therapy will probably be more useful than medication.

What really ****ing infuriates me is the persistence of people that seek to exploit vulnerable people, like Scientologists and their cult or neohippy snake oil salesmen with ****ing crystal therapy and ****. If you're desperate for help, I can totally understand that would override any normal rationality one might have, and I don't belittle the people that buy that crap but I have utter moral reprehension for the people that sell it.