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ForumsDiscussion Forum → Depression & Treatment
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Depression & Treatment
2009-11-22, 9:32 AM #41
Didn't read the thread but my advice: Don't seek advice on an internet forum.

My unprofessional street doctor advice:

Check your eating, exercising and sleeping habits. I give this advice to everyone who comes to me with any psychological issue that seems unrelated to actual events in their life. Almost every one has immediately noticed a difference. I myself am really overcoming a number of my own problems like insomnia and apathy by simply eating a big well-balanced breakfast after working out to a sweat with a lighter dinner so I don't get a burst of energy in the middle of the 8 hour night. All of this helps equalize some of those brain juices that keep you balanced.

But seriously, tell your physician the drugs didn't work and you're feeling really detached from the world. Don't settle after one try.
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2009-11-22, 9:42 AM #42
Also, there are some serious (and not-so-serious) side-effects to medication. I was on 40 mg Citalopram for a while, and while the psychological effects were really slow and subtle the physical effects were immediate and messed up. It just made me feel physically ill after about 2 weeks, and I had persistently an odd tummy and farted like a trooper. A big fat trooper. The physical side-effects were mostly just annoying, but when I stopped taking the pills I became really ill for a few days and then felt so much better afterwards and lived happily ever after.
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt. " - Bertrand Russell
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2009-11-22, 10:01 AM #43
Originally posted by JM:
The whole field is a load of croc. These 'doctors' diagnose confused people with made up diseases so they can take their money. There's nothing wrong with most of the people who think they are depressed. They have no idea what real depression is.


I agree with this almost 100%, the only thing I disagree with is that it's not just for money.
:master::master::master:
2009-11-22, 10:05 AM #44
Originally posted by Cool Matty:
Also for clarification to those that don't get it, a psychologist != a psychiatrist.

A psychologist is someone you want to visit if you want to talk out your depression. They don't focus on drugs (and often aren't even allowed to prescribe any), instead on other methods of dealing with depression. As mentioned before I would try this approach first.

A psychiatrist is someone who is going to try and treat it with more than just the above. They're the ones that will prescribe the drugs and such. I would only see one of these if a psychologist doesn't work out for you first.

Also keep in mind that no one here is a doctor and the best anyone has to offer is their own experiences which especially in the field of the mind is different for everyone.


Originally posted by Emon:
Homeopathic solutions by their definition cannot work. Here's the idea of homeopathy: Take whatever substance that ails you, then dilute it 1000 times, then do it again 1000 times and again 1000 times. Homeopathic solutions cannot contain any of the original substance. Not like it matters since the original substance isn't even what you want.

Example, say you want a sleeping pill. A homeopathic sleeping pill might have caffeine that has been diluted so many times there is no caffeine left in the solution. The idea is that the rest of the solution contains the "ghost structure" of the original and thus cures illness.

Homeopathy was created by a quack in the 19th century. People laughed at him then, it ruined his career. Because it makes no sense and does not work. Now, some clever marketing ****heads decided it would be a good idea to sell it to people.

Every homeopathic medicine, every one ever made, is a placebo. No exceptions.


Ignore everything else you see in this thread, it is useless. Also, you two consistently make my day for being so awesome.
2009-11-22, 12:07 PM #45
I also went on 40 mg Citalopram for anxiety. My depression turned out to be something with my body not readily absorbing B vitamins so I have to take a ton of daily vitamins just to reach the low end of normal levels. (This actually reminds me that I should probably start them up again >_> I had to stop due to a surgery.)

Anyways, I've went through some different methods of therapy, and I think it's beneficial in the way to get things out in the open and talking about them...but it's not something I personally want to do for the rest of my life. The Citalopram mellowed out my physiological response to anxiety, but I had to rely on myself to calm my worrying thoughts down. I recently got completely off this med though (had to slowly reduce my dosage over a period of months; definitely I do not recommend going cold turkey off this type of medication >_<;; That was a horrible experience.)

This is actually coming off rather ranty, but all I really wanted to say was that while the meds reduced some symptoms, I think I can learn to control those by myself and without the horrible side effect I literally gained from Citalopram. Once I was pushed up to 40mg from 20mg, I gained 50 pounds very, very quickly. Like, within two months quickly. :(


So, erm...points for all this if tl;dr:
- Therapy can help.
- Get blood work done to see if you might have a vitamin deficiency.
- Try and avoid the meds if you can.
"Ford, you're turning into a penguin. Stop it."
2009-11-22, 12:58 PM #46
I agree with Kirby, start exercising 4+ times a week, eat a more balanced and nutritious diet and I garuntee you will see a difference. Also, try to break out of your shell more. Get out of your comfort zone and try something crazy!
2009-11-22, 1:21 PM #47
I did the exercise and diet thing, hasn't helped. Not every case of depression is caused by the same things, see a professional.
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2009-11-22, 3:56 PM #48
Antidepressants are a scam.
2009-11-22, 5:28 PM #49
Originally posted by Detty:
Not every case of depression is caused by the same things


It's caused by chemical imbalances in all cases, 100% of the time. How else would people be able to dismiss any personal connection or past origin? If it was anything other than a biological disorder, they would be forced to face the inherent shamefulness of mental illness.
:master::master::master:
2009-11-22, 5:40 PM #50
Originally posted by stat:
It's caused by chemical imbalances in all cases, 100% of the time. How else would people be able to dismiss any personal connection or past origin? If it was anything other than a biological disorder, they would be forced to face the inherent shamefulness of mental illness.


Of course.

In all seriousness, I read a paper a while ago that basically said depression is usually caused by a problem you're having trouble solving and how suicide is always the brain's Plan B. It's why so many people on antidepressants end up offing themselves: because, by chemically ending the depression, you're interfering with your body's natural problem-solving mechanism.
2009-11-22, 6:14 PM #51
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Of course.

In all seriousness, I read a paper a while ago that basically said depression is usually caused by a problem you're having trouble solving and how suicide is always the brain's Plan B. It's why so many people on antidepressants end up offing themselves: because, by chemically ending the depression, you're interfering with your body's natural problem-solving mechanism.


Indeed. That and antidepressants tend to take away the key element of depression: the loss of energy. It's also why those with bipolar disorder have a raised risk of suicide, since there is a tendancy for a "mixed" state; that is, for example, a state in which thoughts and feelings of depression are coupled with the energeticness of a manic state. The most dangerous thing is being energetic while being 'depressed.' This is one of the reasons why there are several incidences of suicide after starting drug trials. Age also factors in to a lot of those, too, of course.
I can't wait for the day schools get the money they need, and the military has to hold bake sales to afford bombs.
2009-11-22, 7:33 PM #52
Originally posted by stat:
It's caused by chemical imbalances in all cases, 100% of the time. How else would people be able to dismiss any personal connection or past origin? If it was anything other than a biological disorder, they would be forced to face the inherent shamefulness of mental illness.


Seeing as all mental phenomena are products of the brain, and thus are results of chemical states: yes, mental disorders are caused by chemical imbalances 100% of the time. Brains' chemical states vary more or less from person to person, but sometimes highly atypical brains have trouble fitting into society. We then chemically alter those brains so they fit in or function better.

I'm having trouble parsing your internet sarcasm, but do you actually mean to claim that mental illness is shameful?

I think people take ******* positions like that because thinking about the physical nature of the brain (and its implications for the concept of "free will") scares them: they think that they have to pretend that all states of the brain are under conscious control or else someone will show that none of them are.
2009-11-22, 8:19 PM #53
Scapegoat
2009-11-22, 8:35 PM #54
the disease is real, but doctors are all to quick to diagnose it as -complex life threatening mental disorder- and give you medicine you dont really need. Unless you're constantly trying to kill yourself or are too low to get out of bed, you dont need medication, you just need to grow up and sort your **** out.

I was diagnosed as suffereing depression with mania, then later with anxiety disorder, which had started at the age of 17 (thanks to medicine called ro-accutane, long story). Ive had citalopram once or twice over the years, yeah it helps, but the factor which single handedly made me better was realising i was a whiney moaning ***** who needed to sort his life out and stop blaming others for his problems.
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else{
  do a dude}
2009-11-22, 8:49 PM #55
I was pretty depressed for about 4 years. It stemmed from me going in a direction with my life that I did not want to be headed. I turned to booze and tore my life apart and pretty much ended up starting from the beginning... About 130 thousand dollars in debt, though.
>>untie shoes
2009-11-22, 8:52 PM #56
Originally posted by Admiral Zarn:
I, too, have depression. I've had it for the majority of my life. Let me tell you of my experience.

I underwent, in the mid-to-late 90's, aggressive treatment (SSRI trials) and therapy for minor depression. However, I had a several adverse reactions to the medication that, at the time, was understood as only a worsening of my condition. Thus the increase of dosages and, in effect, the worsening of the reaction. The reaction was in the form of major depression, skitzophrenia, bipolar tendancies, and OCD. After discontinuing the medication, I still suffer from these to varying degrees, but not as extreme as they used to.

Having this said, I'm NOT trying to discourage you from seaking treatment. For some time, I studied psychology. In my studies, I learned that (in some forms of depression, like mine) treatment is more effective when coupled with changes in lifestyle. Without such changes, medication would be less effective, if not harmful to the condition. It is my belief that all conditions would be better treated if conditions in the patient's life are improved during or before treatment.

I would suggest seeing couselors first, before going the route of seaking medication. Even small improvements to your life would, probably, improve the effectiveness of the treatment conciderably.

If the condition improves after lifestyle changes, you should still try to seak treatment, since the recurrance of feelings in the form of doubts and mood swings may be possible. In addition, after beginning medication, communication with your doctors and couselor is extremely important. Any adverse feelings you may get while on the medication is, most likely, a sign that it isn't working for you, not a sign that you're getting worse.

That's all I can think of at the moment.


That seems like very good advice. I have very limited ability to change my life around right now due to my course load, but I'll try to get my next internship in a place where I can mix things up a bit. Hopefully by that time I'll have found some promising medication as well. I've resisted the idea of using medication for a long time, but I've had the same issue so consistently through so many different situations that I think it's certainly worth looking into. I do not want to live the rest of my life like this.

Another reason I've waited so long to look into medication is that I don't have much faith at all that it will do any real good. Your suggestion seems very reasonable though, so that's encouraging.

Quote:
My unprofessional street doctor advice:

Check your eating, exercising and sleeping habits. I give this advice to everyone who comes to me with any psychological issue that seems unrelated to actual events in their life. Almost every one has immediately noticed a difference. I myself am really overcoming a number of my own problems like insomnia and apathy by simply eating a big well-balanced breakfast after working out to a sweat with a lighter dinner so I don't get a burst of energy in the middle of the 8 hour night. All of this helps equalize some of those brain juices that keep you balanced.


I would definitely agree with you except for the fact that I did a hour of hard exercise five days a week throughout my senior year of high school, and this had no describable effect on the problem. The fact that exercise had so little effect is one of the reasons that I'm looking into medication. I'm still trying to keep up with exercise, though, because lack of exercise can defiantly make things worse.

Quote:


Obi_kwiet is perfectly fine, but he's desperate to find some disease, something that can be treated with medication, so he can get rid of it without making any effort. He's unwilling to admit that his ennui is his fault, so he searches for something blame it on. Ironically, his aversion to making an effort at examining his life and discovering what's wrong with it is a symptom of the disease he believes he has.


:downs: There, there. I asked for advice on what kind of medical help I should look for, not psychic armchair psychiatry.


Thanks for all the advice guys! I'll be seeing a doctor on Tuesday. Hopefully progress will be made.
2009-11-23, 5:01 AM #57
Quote:
I'm having trouble parsing your internet sarcasm, but do you actually mean to claim that mental illness is shameful?


No. He's saying people want it to be a completely beyond their control so that they don't have to take responsibility for it. You know, like Obi.
2009-11-23, 5:25 AM #58
Writing down your problems publicly and consequently seeking professional help is taking responsibility. Maybe what Obi (and a lot of people here, myself included) have isn't technically 'depression', and maybe it can't be cured with SSRIs. Maybe it is just ennui, but the point is this: Obi has reached a point in his life where he has serious issues and he doesn't seem to have the skills required to deal with them. As far as I'm concerned he's doing the most responsible thing he's equipped to do.

It is immensely tiring to keep making the effort to break out of a rut and to not have it pay off. It's horrible knowing that every time you have the opportunity to go out with friends that you'll make some excuse, because ultimately you know that you'll feel even more depressed on the way home if you do go out. Maybe it's just a case of learning to trust people, or maybe you don't know the right kind of people to confide in (I've effectively lost contact with everyone I ever used to confide in, which kinda sucks). Maybe it's not depression, but people in this situation definitely need help.

Telling people to suck it up and take responsibility isn't helpful, especially when they already are taking responsibility.
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2009-11-23, 2:46 PM #59
Originally posted by JM:
No. He's saying people want it to be a completely beyond their control so that they don't have to take responsibility for it.


This is pretty spot on, except for the Obi part, he never said anything about chemical imbalances. By saying it's entirely biological it removes any personal connection. This outside thing is affecting you.

It's a result of psychiatrists and psychological researchers wanting to roll with the big boys. Psychology is only a hard science if you try to force it to become one. Everything mental can ultimately derived to the brain, that is true. Writing a program to empty the recycle bin in assembly would be a good analogy for this sort of reduction, especially if you don't know assembly. (in this case, no one knows assembly, hell we don't even have a standard definition of consciousness)

The mind is not the brain and if you try to create a pathology that operates identically to one of the body, you will not do it justice. As it stands, the "mental disease" model of psychopathology is extremely limited and does not fairly represent the varieties of human experience.
:master::master::master:
2009-11-23, 4:25 PM #60
I don't understand why some people are so quick to dismiss antidepressants. Antidepressants aren't for everyone, and they are over-prescribed, but they can and they do help a lot of people.

If it were a matter of "just getting your **** together," it wouldn't be an issue. People have depression because they're in a state where it's extremely difficult to "just do it."
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2009-11-23, 4:27 PM #61
Also, I'm pretty appalled at some of the outright idiotic and sweeping generalizations made by some Massassians that claim to be critical thinkers and intellectuals.

Blindly dismissing things is not skepticism. Extending a few anecdotes to cover all cases is idiocy.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2009-11-23, 4:54 PM #62
doublepost
:master::master::master:
2009-11-23, 5:09 PM #63
Originally posted by Emon:
I don't understand why some people are so quick to dismiss antidepressants.


Questionable efficacy?

http://www.plosmedicine.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pmed.0050045
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10698808

I picked those up from a quick search. The only source I could find doubting these studies is one by someone at Pfizer. I'm not claiming they have no activity whatsoever, but I think they, like most other psychiatric medications, are a machete doing a scalpel's job.
:master::master::master:
2009-11-23, 6:38 PM #64
Originally posted by stat:
like most other psychiatric medications, are a machete doing a scalpel's job.

Ah well, I do agree with this.

People criticize medication as a crutch. Yeah, so? You use a crutch with a broken leg, right? Antidepressants are not meant for and should not be used in the very long term (corner cases excluded of course). The mind and the brain are interdependent -- physiology influences psychology and vice versa. Antidepressants can help get through therapy and to a quicker recovery.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
2009-11-23, 6:45 PM #65
Whoa now, I think SSRI's are incredibly over prescribed, but that doesn't mean that some people don't have a very real problem that they need help with - even medicinal help. I don't think it should be the first option anyone explores, and I do think a large majority of people who are prescribed SSRI's shouldn't be on them, (like I said, I wrote my thesis on it!) but:

a) That doesn't mean nobody should ever be on them and they're totally useless.
b) scoffing at someone and telling them to "suck it up" is very much not the answer.

Obi - go see a professional
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2009-11-23, 7:01 PM #66
Originally posted by sugarless:
Whoa now, I think SSRI's are incredibly over diagnosed


Looks to me like you have a bad case of the SSRI.
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2009-11-23, 7:02 PM #67
:P mistype. fixed
Fincham: Where are you going?
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2009-11-23, 7:12 PM #68
[stop trolling this thread -mb]
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