You said it for the first but not the second. I knew what you were getting at, I am just irked anytime someone says, "oh that's just a ripoff of XX!" ...yeah, so?

Well I couldn't say much about the second because I don't know exactly what he meant by the tab thing in the first place. I only went off of the tab layout which is identical to Chrome; but can't be better or worse since... it just is lol.

Stop jumping on my case, SAJN is the one that is wrong on this part of the internets, and must be corrected!

No, it was because you said Chrome and Firefox were faster/better. That raises the question, "why aren't you using them?" If you just made a thread and asked, "Anyone else having this problem with Safari?" you wouldn't have seen such a harsh response.

Styles of speech never hold up online, but what I was going for was a mocking tone. As in, don't waste your time telling me what's better and faster, I use Safari, I'm clearly happy with it- who cares what the reasons are? Why does it matter? The answer: It doesn't.

Then just say so. Don't be upset if we misunderstand your vague attempt at sarcasm. Just say, "I don't want to hear suggestions of other browsers."

We're trying to convince you to use something that's much, much better. Just trying to help you man, but if you want to get all egotistical and rant about circlejerks then that's your issue.
You could happy riding a snail to work every day because you'd never ridden a horse, in which case if I'll tell you to try out a horse sometime.

And since you've been whining and complaining about circlejerks, you must have missed my legitimate post about what might be wrong.

Shut up wrongfattywrong.

Chrome is rubbish at handling large amounts of tabs, which only really leaves Firefox and Safari on a Mac, and Firefox is slow.

How is Safari any better in that regard?

It does the same as Firefox and gives you a dropdown once you hit a certain number of tabs. Chrome just lets you add new tabs beyond the point of it being unusable.

There's like a billion different extensions for handling chrome tabs...

Oh, here I thought it'd actually do something useful like multiple rows, like Firefox has the option of doing (extensions enable it, but it's a Firefox feature).

CTRL+N

PROBLEM SOLVED

But that ruins the zen efficiency of my taskbar.

You lose.

(I use chrome)

I absolutely agree that chrome should have it automatically. But people like Detty writing it off completely because of requiring a simple extension is just silly. Especially when he's listing Safari as a better alternative

There's absolutely nothing wrong w/ using Safari if you're comfortable w/ it & if it's functional for you. However, if you're having issues, I would suggest trying a few other browsers to see if the problems persist. If the problem is only occurring in Safari then you may want to switch (assuming you're unable to resolve said problem). I haven't personally had any problems w/ Flash but if you'll direct me to a specific website where the problem occurs for you I'll be glad to check it out. I use both Hulu & VBS quite a bit which I believe both use Flash & they function just like they do on my other computers.

The fact of the matter is that it doesn't really matter which browser you use as long as it's functional for what you're using it for. This idea that you must use the trendy browser of the moment (we've gone through this w/ Netscape, Opera, Firefox & now Chrome) because it has all of these options that you may not even need/use or because it'll load a website half a second faster or else you'll be labeled a fanboy &/or an idiot is just plain stupid. You must consider the fact that most of this is merely anti-Apple rhetoric by individuals that are incapable or unwilling to give credit where it's due (even when Apple surprises them by doing something that they didn't expect/predict). Apple can do no good in their eyes & you must be able to recognize this fact when considering their comments. To these people it doesn't matter how many non-Apple products that you own. If you own one Apple product, despite how useful it is & if you have the audacity to claim that it's not a total piece of **** then you're a fanboy &/or an idiot.

Yes, cuz everyone that owns an ipod or iphone is called a fanboy -_-

This has nothing to do with apple, this has everything to do with Safari being a godsawful produc, it's slow, it's clunky, it's buggy. Chrome is faster, that's the sole reason I use it, and you might note that no-one hurled any insults in this thread until SAJN called us all egotists. Up until then we were just trying to tell him to try out the better product, but apparently that's an egotistical fanboy fad thing to do.

Maybe you could provide a link to one that doesn't look like ass? I prefer to utilize native functionality over plugins, primarily because it's more likely to present a unified interface.

For the record I do use Chrome as my primary browser, but it's not without its own serious instabilities. Safari is the only browser I've used on OSX that has yet to start behaving erratically after being open for a while.

Define slow, clunky & buggy. Safari opens in a matter of seconds, it loads websites in a matter of seconds & I haven't had it crash once in the year that I've been using it. If by clunky you mean that it's bloated & takes up too much space, then why should I care when I have a 1 TB HDD & 2GB RAM? Why should I stop using Safari because Chrome might open a second or two faster or load a website a second or two faster? This is what I'm talking about when I'm saying that people are making a big deal out of nothing. What's the rush? I don't personally use my web browser to perform open heart surgery over the internet. The point is that there seems to be this consensus that Safari "sucks" because it's slower (judged in milliseconds) or because it has fewer features that individual users may or may not even care about (I don't personally give 2 ****s about browser extensions because I prefer using my OSX Dashboard). This idea that something "sucks" because people who think they're smarter than everyone else don't like it is just plain stupid.

I think that if you'll review the thread you may change your mind about that.

Fortunately that idea exists mostly in the heads of people like you. You seem to be automatically going against chrome simply because it's 'cool' without really thinking about why it's considered good.
I'm definitely not one who just goes with flow, following every fad, but I'm not the person that automatically opposes the flow for no logical reason either.
If you ask me, people that fit into either category are just as bad as each other.

You may have missed the post where I explained that I use Chrome, Firefox & Safari. I think that Chrome is a great browser. I simply prefer using Safari when I'm on my Mac (I don't have a reason to do otherwise). I wouldn't put Safari or iTunes on my laptop (Windows) because I think that Chrome runs better on that unit & iTunes seems buggy on Windows (it seems to work fine in OSX).

Well, that's fair enough then.

I own a Mac Pro and an iPod Touch.

Safari is still a ****ty browser. Safari 5 is still a deliberately broken ****ty browser that's designed to break their competitors' products (Flash, GWT.) The reason some people are fanboys is because they don't get it. Things CAN be empirically bad.

I would agree w/ you if Safari would actually break for me. It's not enough for me to switch to Chrome in OSX just because people tell me that it breaks for them. I agree that something can be empirically bad, I just don't think that this applies to Safari. If I start visiting a website that crashes Safari then I'll consider using something else (this is the situation that SAJN is in) but until that happens I just don't see a reason to do so. The only time that I've ever had a problem w/ Flash in OSX was when playing Machinarium but after I reinstalled it the issue didn't reoccur.

Safari not empirically bad? Safari has a KNOWN BUG with GWT apps. And since you probably aren't bothering to look into what GWT is and instead ignore Jon's post, I'll explain it. GWT is a toolkit by Google that lets developers write code in Java and compile it to JavaScript. It can be used by ANYONE, so anyone who happens to use GWT for their site will have a problem with Safari 5.

Trendy?

A. Netscape, back in its prime, was the first to properly support CSS, which some sites required. That's not trendy.
B. Opera was never trendy, nor even popular. Its only real success was the mobile market, which has now been rendered irrelevant by smartphones fast enough to handle full size websites on their own.
C. Firefox wasn't trendy, and there's a reason it has such a massive marketshare nowadays. Until IE8 rolled around, using Internet Explorer was simply asking for trouble, and let's not forget how infuriating the lack of standards support in IE6 was. Transparent PNGs? Broken box model? Cherry-picked support of CSS2?
D. Chrome came around about the same time as Safari went to Windows. I don't think Apple expected that at all, and now Safari's usage on Windows is pretty laughable. Let's not forget the whole "installed by default" fiasco in Apple Updater as well, on Windows.

Oh, and to finish, Safari on OS X is insecure, Mentat. Period. IIRC, it was used to break into OS X on numerous occasions on security testing of Windows/Mac/Linux platforms. Just because you haven't had the issue yet doesn't mean this isn't true, or something to concern yourself with. That's like saying "I live in tornado alley, but I won't worry myself about tornadoes until one tears my house down."

I studied programming in college & am familiar w/ GWT. Your opinion that GWT issues make Safari empirically bad doesn't change anything that I've said.

Just because something is useful or of good quality doesn't mean that it's not trendy. Please don't try to tell me that there aren't thousands of users that downloaded Firefox just because their friends said that it was superior to Internet Explorer. The average user doesn't know anything about security & bought in to that idea w/o actually knowing whether or not it was true. Me saying that these browsers are trendy is in no way saying that they aren't good. However, there's a crap-ton of people that get them because they're trendy.


Safari isn't the first browser to have security issues. We don't say that a browser is empirically bad when it does. I agree that this issue should've been resolved w/ 5.0 but that doesn't make it any less useful for me.


I'm assuming that you're referring to SAJN's initial issue of Flash in Safari. Why would I be concerned w/ something that isn't happening to me? I don't care about Flash other than a few websites that work just fine in Safari at this point (e.g: Hulu). You're making a big deal out of nothing when it comes to Flash. It's not like my hard drive is going to crash & I'm going to lose all of my data if the latest episode of "South Park" locks up. If you're referring to the GWT then I would simply add that I'm aware of it & have taken the necessary precautions. It doesn't concern me enough to switch to a browser that I don't enjoy using as much. I personally like using all of the different browsers & seeing the latest features when they're updated & I wouldn't stop using Safari even if I started using something else primarily.

What precautions? Patching Safari in memory? You should publish a paper, I hear Kaspersky is working on something similar to fix Safari and you could probably snipe him.

I think another problem with Mentat's thinking is he makes sweeping generalizations, that since "Well I don't need/use extensions, so only geeks use them", or "well I don't have security issues, so only geeks worry about it", etc. I also find the whole extensions remark a few posts back hilarious. I don't think you've ever used an extension, Mentat. Otherwise you'd know very well that the OS X Dashboard isn't even comparable.

I never made such a generalization (you're making an assumption). I never said that I wasn't a "geek" but you're more than welcome to assume that I'm not (despite the fact that I've worked w/ computers for a living & have an IT degree). I've used various Firefox extensions for years. Firefox was my primary browser before I bought my Mac about a year ago (the first one that I personally ever owned since my Apple ][). However, you're more than welcome to believe that I'm a liar if you think it'll strengthen your case. I never said that the OSX dashboard was "comparable". I stated that I prefer it over using browser extensions. I think that there are some rather good widgets. None of this changes anything that I've said.

P.S. Doesn't the GWT issue only affect 32-bit mode anyway?

Just so we're clear, the broken box model was fixed in IE6 'standards mode'.

A. I refer you to this post: http://forums.massassi.net/vb3/showthread.php?p=1088132#post1088110 on generalizations.
B. If they're not comparable, why do you compare them? You prefer using something over something unrelated. That makes absolutely no sense. That's like saying "I don't like oranges, so I drive a Focus". Absolutely no sense.

I never said that they're not comparable. I said that I'm not comparing them. Please stop trying to show your intellectual cock size. I'm not interested in seeing it. I prefer using widgets to downloading & installing a browser that I don't need (on my Mac). I've already stated that I use Chrome & Firefox also (that includes extensions). I've been quite clear & am not interested in playing some stupid semantics game w/ you.

When was this about semantics? If anything you're arguing semantics over "comparisons".

The simple fact of the matter is, you choosing to use OS X Dashboard widgets over extensions makes no sense whatsoever because they're not related.

There are Dashboard widgets that I use that have the same functionality &/or purpose as extensions that exist for web browsers. I choose to use my Dashboard for those things instead of using browser extensions. I don't see why this is so controversial. I do use browser extensions on my other computers because they don't have Dashboard (they're running entirely different OS's).

Ohhhhhhhhh

Last I checked, adblock was not a dashboard widget. Google quick scroll was not a dashboard widget. Flashblock was not a dashboard widget.

I could go on, but I think you get my point. Just because you only use extensions for checking weather doesn't mean the vast majority of people use them for that.