http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/06/wikileaks-chat/#ixzz0v8s0nm1q
Read through these logs Massassi...

PFC Manning was an Intel Analyst responsible for the largest secret Intel dump in history. While not as sensitive as the Pentagon Papers, it's sheer volume is the true impressive facet.

He began to correspond with what he believed was a fellow hacker/journalist (Adrian Lamo). Lamo, a supposed Asperger's syndrome sufferer and one time most wanted Hacker was contacted by Manning first. Lamo who was recently featured in Wired magazine had a friend from the magazine named Kevin Paulsen. While Lamo was talking to Manning, I believe he contacted Paulsen and they both saw one thing: Money.

Nevermind that Manning was spilling the proverbial beans on every single thing we had done in Iraq and had recently been erased in mass "zeroouts" since we are pulling out and wiping computers and servers as we leave theatre. But Lamo knew it was already in the hands of Wikileaks. Manning's logs (which I am sure are edited by Paulsen) with Lamo are released in Wired and I am sure they were each heavily compensated for their role in bring this supposed "national security threat" to justice by not only our government but by Wired as well.

Here's the thing. I served in Iraq for two tours as an Intel analyst. Every point he makes about the people having a right to know about what our military covers up on a routine basis is spot on. I love my country, and I know that I was never guilty of war crimes or acting indiscriminately when engaged in urban combat. This **** deserves to be talked about and our military needs it to improve upon itself because they are corrupt in many ways as of now. Of course, the pro-war leaders will say that "it may put troops in harms way" when they have no trouble in placing us in places such as FOB Wanat (July 2008, 9 dead http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37853775...international/ ).

How can I make a difference? I am going to become an Officer and I am starting to empathize in the most deep down heartfelt way I have ever felt with a PFC who acted by doing what he believed was the right thing. It's crazy because they always tell you to "do the right thing" and I think we (military) have moved away from it in the name of not taking responsibility as a discore of action.

Personally, I think he should be court martialed.

As a person who has been dealt with in the Military system (I got a DUI a few years back) I know he will be hammered to the wall since there has not been a leak like this in quite some time. The Army loves to make examples of people and I won't say that I wish Manning a damnation in jail but I certainly know they will come at him hard and ruthlessly. He will be court-martialed that is a fact.

Oh yeah, he's definitely going to get his dick in the dirt. The fact is, the ******* has no honor. And he's going to pay for it.

Also, I wonder what kind of punishment the devil dogs at Quantico are going to put him through while he's detained there.

He seems like a little *****.

I don't disagree with his attitude. I know what it's like to be shunned for being intellectual with those who refuse to contemplate those on the other side of their view.... I had a tough time. **** even here on Massassi back in the day I thought I was a little know it all. He came to all the same realizations I did especially the one about "there are no bad guys vs good guys" arguments...

You mean the bad guys are designated for you when you join the military? For real?

we all have logic.

I'm an intellectual warrior poet.

You seem a bit idealistic for someone in the military. I'm going to go out on a limb here but I'm guessing that when they tell you to "do the right thing" they actually mean "do only what suits our interests". They're just making the assumption that you're on the same page when it comes to what's "right". It's very similar to how a corporation functions in this sense.

Me personally, I look out for number one.

Like almost everyone else out there, when push comes to shove I look for something to swing or shoot.

I'm at work and can't read over it now but I feel like this needs addressing. What did he do, exactly? Because blowing the whistle on things that need to be heard is not dishonorable.

I'm really just joking around about the whole "he has no honor thing" because I think that sort of **** is funny...

In all seriousness, though, what he did is wrong. He has put lives at risk by leaking this information. It's not his place to decide what is and is not information for the American people to know. It also seems like he was a bit pissed over the fact that he was going to be discharged already, so he just leaked all this information to get back at the military or something.

And on a serious note, as far as his status of honorable/dishonorable goes... let's just wait to see what kind of discharge he ends up getting...

The type of discharge he's getting is the least of his worries.

i spoke with Lamo. At this point I honestly don't think he is doing it for money. He was on CNN today

I may be to idealistic for the Army, but at least I am going to be an officer where idealism stands a chance as opposed to the enlisted culture.

That could be, and that's a problem.


But the problem is, if there's important information that the people SHOULD know and it's being covered up, what right do the people who cover it up have?

My sentiments exactly. When I was talking with Lamo he made the point that U.S. Service Members don't sign up at the will of Adrian Lassange. While I agree and Lassange does not hold that power to deem what should or shouldn't be secret I countered with the same logic. I never signed up under the banner of Patriotism or anything but I did sign up knowing that I represented that U.S. Flag. When I felt that certain representations of our military, and subsequently the U.S. , were being skewed by turning a blind eye to very real issues, I felt empty... It makes patriotism seem fake.

Nationalism is empty convoluted bull****? Please go on.

To me it's like high school football... If I'm gonna play, I might as well play for the closest team.

EDIT: It just so happens that the closest team to me is also the baddest group of guys walking.

How? Odds are good you'll spend your entire time as an officer just taking orders from higher ranking officers and regurgitating them to the enlisted side.

Hate you all want. I am pursuing my own way of doing greater good. If that means nitpicking crap out of orders from higher so it doesn't affect my enlisted then that's what I will do.

Update: Well, the interview on CNN was a disaster for Adrian... like bad. He was very lose with me on the phone last night but he attributed it to sleeping pills. He told me one of his justifications was that he was facing 15 years in prison at one point. At that point I knew... he had cut a deal and the bottom line is someone else is paying for his crime. I am not absolving Manning of any guilt for not committing a crime. Manning however didn't go public.

Get this... Kevin Paulsen (the guy who broke the news with Adrian as the rat) had written an article 2 months earlier profiling Adrian. He gets to have exclusive use to the logs between him and adrian and he edits them. (He flat out admitted they are edited).

This whole thing is so corrupt. I hoped at least after calling him late last night and essentially winning a lot of empathy for Manning. Then on the interview he reverts back into the same rhetoric after we had hashed it out. So stupid.

The fact I couldn't look him in the face made me get fooled. He knows he is in the wrong though....

FYI, I start OCC next June...

I figured that for someone who hasn't been through it yet, but wants to, should be a little bit more humble. Don't you think?

No no, he knows he's gonna be the baddest devil dog there's ever been. He's gonna be the best darned Marine there ever was!

No, I don't really do the humble thing. I try to look at things for what they actually are.

I'm looking forward to the movie.

Sounds like Greenzone meets The Listening.

It's nice that you say you're not humble and then go on to describe yourself as such.

There's a difference between being humble and being realistic, yet still having faith in one's ability to achieve.

You are too idealistic for the Army. Namely, you have to think about who the Army is serving, the government of the United States of America. A very dishonest and dishonorable institution. It is filled with 535 greedy, self-serving, politicians who care nothing for their constituents but only their pocket books. Congress will freely use the military (they have the authority as dictated in the Constitution) to serve an end to their means.

It sounds like you are there because you believe in concept of what the United States should be and I applaud that. However, like every notion of an idealistic institution, the human nature of selfishness, corruption, and deceit always infiltrates the institution.

Yeah, but does that mean anyone with ideals should jump ship and leave the institution to the wolves? I wish there were more idealists in the military. Sure, I wish they were in congress MORE, but the military is a start.

I don't believe I am to idealistic for the Army. The fact that I have my views on how the military could be better in certain ways gives me hope that as an Officer I can change it. I understand your grievances with the United States government as self-serving for the people in high places. Sadly, because of our republic nature this will always be the case. I have accepted that and know that unless we drastically change something about the structure of our government (which has only been 22 times in the past 200+ years) we will continually have the kind of arguments that you bring up in order to criticize our government. I'm not here to argue that so please take it to another forum. Moving on.



Thank you for the support. I think apathy affects everyone and making them believe nothing will ever change. The majority of politicians got to places they are with idealism and motivation. Sadly, most sell-out at some place along that path. Considering the millions of dollars that float around even state government elections it is no wonder that becoming a Politician is riddled with these kind of lucrative temptations.




Yup, you still don't get it. Good luck with that attitude. Or better yet, good luck using it on enlisted men who have seen 10x the amount of **** you will ever see. Tell him that you don't need to be humble. I hope they chew you up and spit you out. I am not talking about training either. Training is just that... training. Wait until it's the real ****ing deal. Then tell me about faith and ability to achieve. This isn't about YOU. This is about those who will serve underneath you. Whether they follow you or not is what makes a good leader. So far... your attitude is that of a very arrogant over-confident one.

I did 4 years Infantry. I have a purple heart. I have 23 months of combat under my belt. What do you have?

I cant wait for the overly dramatized Hollywood adaptation.

A degree.

I'm not really that much of a dick. I just come off that way most of the time.

EDIT: And I apologize that I come off as a total ******* most of the time. The majority of the people on Massassi are either used to it and understand that I'm not serious, or they hate me because they don't get it.

YES SIR! RIGHT AWAY, SIR!

Good to see you know your role. I challenge you to criticize me in some way towards the matter at hand. Thank you.

Ha. What? And you're telling me that I'm a self righteous ass bag?

Not really, I just didn't want this thread to turn into one about the politics of our government. It's always an ugly argument and if there is one thing I like about Massassi as opposed to other forms I've been on is that they don't allow thread hi-jacks. Sorry if you think that I am being self-righteous. I just appreciate you guys a lot as one of the oldest tighest communities around. I never post much since I wasn't to popular around here before but I've been a lurker and I'm hoping you don't think I'm being indignant.

Actually thread derailing is pretty rampant around here these days... but I do agree that this really doesn't need to turn into some nonsense about left vs right. That **** gets old pretty fast.

Can't we all get along?

No.