Travel time is irrelevant in Mass Effect because of the Mass Relays.

Also, the asari mind-melding thing is done for purposes other than reproduction, like when Shiala gives Shepard the Cipher on Feros.

I do think the indoctrination theory has to be correct, simply because it fits so neatly and the ending is impossibly incoherent if taken at face value. But if it is correct, that's only slightly less disappointing, because it means BioWare ended the game prematurely. I can't understand why they'd make a decision like that.

Apparently the original script and ending got leaked about four-six months ago. Its understandably little time to turn around and write/produce a new ending. It might be that bioware was hoping to take more time to finish producing it, and/or wanted to keep it off the disk to evade spoilers. It might also be some wacko test of psychology. Test the player to see if the reapers could indoctrinate THEM into choosing to control them.

These are just a bunch of rumors and theories from social.bioware.com. None of that comes from me. I personally think Bioware just f'ed up bad, just like Dragon Age 2. They changed writers for Mass Effect 3 and it just bit them in the ass. The only reason a small part of me believes (hopes) theres some bizarre ace up Bioware's sleeves is because 99% of the game leading up to the ending was simply incredible.

I'm gonna go ahead and agree with Jep on this. It pisses me off that we'll probably get a Broken Steel style DLC instead of having a full ending, though.

Since I'm playing the game incredibly slowly, I've been using the iPad Datapad app to slowly boost my readiness rating since all you have to do with it is delegate fleets and then wait.

I might get that app for my next playthrough, when I get around to it. I'm waiting to see what comes of this endings fiasco.

Just finished Priority: Tuchanka and Jacob's side mission. Checking in to say that this game is THE BIZZOMB YO

My Jacob is dead.

In fact, it seems like in the 'canon' ending of ME2 everyone ****ing died. Seriously. I don't get Jack, Sam, Jacob, or Legion; there's no sign of Grunt anywhere. I just spent the whole game with Garrus and Liara because everyone else sucks ass. Also, in the first game, I seriously flipped a coin to choose between Kaiden and Ashley. I wish they could both die.

It's been repeatedly stated that there is no "canon" in Mass Effect.

haha, look at today's Penny Arcade:

I'm sure he's using "canon" as shorthand for the decisions and consequences you get stuck with if you don't import a save. Though from what I've heard, Jacob is supposed to have survived regardless. JM, it's possible you just haven't run into him yet.

Oh ok. I see what you mean. I thought it gave you options for the "big decisions" of who lives and dies and such? And from what I remember, Jacob didn't show up until a bit later in the game.

I just tested this, because I'd never even tried it before. Creating a Mass Effect 3 character from scratch, the only avenue you're given for changing the background story is a section where you're asked to describe your character's experience with loss. The options are basically "Kaidan/Ashley/Numerous."

I don't know what the exact effect of choosing "numerous" is, and from a quick Google search, neither does anyone else.

I never ran into Jacob. Oh well. At any rate, I'm now going with the indoctrination theory.

And the assumption that anyone who thinks the Citadel's motivations don't make sense is to be ignored.



It's also interesting how the different endings benefit different characters. Only the synthesis ending, for example, allows Joker and EDI to be together.

That's too bad. I was hoping that numerous would have a bunch of new dialog, like with the war wearing Shep down and being on the verge of losing it.

FYI I started a new ME3 game with Kaiden as the casualty. The other dead are Wrex, Thane, and the Cerberus Normandy crew

That's fair. It's not incomprehensible that this extragalactic being would choose to prune organic civilizations advanced enough to create the means of their destruction, so as to maintain the enterprise of organic life as a whole. (It does, of course, raise questions about why this extragalactic being gives a flying ****.)

What makes a lot less sense is the extragalactic being's solutions. Specifically, the first one, in which you kill all synthetic life forms in the galaxy. Holy ****, you can do that? Why not just do it unilaterally every 40 million years and leave the organics alone?, you might ask. Uh., says the extragalactic being who in his/her/its defense has taken the form of a child too dumb to accept a perfectly good rescue when it's offered, and is probably not operating at peak cognitive efficiency.

Well, he could have been lying. Maybe destroying him doesn't destroy EDI or the Geth at all. Maybe he's just the central server for the Reapers, and the mass relays are their communication network.

It may well do. I think the description of the "Numerous" choice does say something along the lines of "the experience of losing so many people has started to weigh heavily on Shepard". That wall opposite the elevator on the Crew Deck is probably huge.

Has anyone tried out much of the multiplayer? I'm finding it a lot of fun. I was expecting small missions to progress through (like N7 missions from the single player) but I quite like the mini-horde mode style. I think a lot of what I like is the co-operative nature of it; because it's you and three others against the enemy you find people trying to work together a lot rather than in games like Black Ops which was pretty much like playing with bots most of the time. Also, because the waves tend to be quite short and action-packed it's fun and easy to dip in and out of and you still get well rewarded by it.

I really do think it's lying about it.

I've been reading about this rather a lot.

Who cares?

So you didn't get a happy 'Hollywood' ending - it just makes it cooler. Like in Red Dead Redemption - (spoilers coming up) I wish you didn't play as the son and the game ended when John dies, it would be fitting as the 'Wild West' was ending anyway.

Final Fantasy X - Tidus dies (he was a dream all along) and it's emotional but it makes it memorable. He helped save the world though before he vanished.

I think what they've done with ME3 is cool and nobody was expecting it. What would the Shepard have done if he'd survived anyway? Be like Luke when Vader died - he'd be unemployed and bored.

The problem with the ending isn't that it's not happy. It's that it doesn't make any sense. I'd have had no problem with an ending that was dark or bittersweet if it was well thought out. I had no objections to the ending of LA Noire, for example, because even though it's frustrating and depressing, it fits. Framing the debate as "actual ending vs. happy Hollywood ending" kind of misses the real reasons everyone's bothered by how the game ended.

http://kotaku.com/5894186/mass-effects-producer-promises-well-keep-listening-and-new-content-that-brings-closure

I like that they're reacting to the fan-response by essentially saying "We get it. We're not going to pull the 'it's our game' card, here. We'll give you what you've asked for."

I just finished the game. I chose the kill all synthetics ending. Except I forgot that EDI was in my squad. Whoops! I have to say, I don't understand the internet rage over this. I thought it was a great ending to the series. I guess people just wanted to live happily ever after and have space orgies with Liara/Ash/EDI?

I don't get it.

I just realized I forgot to rescue the Elcor. Whoops!

I wanted to rescue them, but the map never told me where they were, and I couldn't find their stupid elcor planet.

I actually found it last night why I was playing. I had talked to the ambassador prior so I figured it would show up on my map but I randomly discovered their solar-system while I was procrastinating the N7 fuel depot mission. I scanned the planet but only got an artifact from it. So I don't know what the deal is. I was hoping to see the Elcor fight. I sure cant wait to beat this game so I can read 80% of this thread.

That mission is really just another scanning mission. There's no Elcor battle or anything. If you already did the previous mission on Dekuuna, there's actually nothing to do for this mission, you just have to talk to the Elcor again and get credit (you'll have to leave the floor and come back though to trigger the chance to talk to him again).

How the **** do I save Paul, I've played it twice, I kill the MIBs that bust in, and he sits back down, but then I just do the mission and he dies, I don't get it.

Yep, I accidentally completed this before talking to the Elcor and had no idea what to do until I looked it up.

I finally beat it a few hours ago. I loved the journey but hated the destination.

Though the ending was strange I liked the grim finality to it all, up until the elevator took me up to talk to some brat that forced me to choose 3 different colors. (Being a fan of Beast Wars I went for Green.) It was about this point I knew what everyone was talking about. Aside from huge plot-holes and inconsistencies I think the biggest kick in the balls was the text message after the credits telling me to be excited that I'll have to spend more money to be satisfied.

Almost... There...

Darth's posting screenshots from his retina display iPad...

It's funny, the resolution is pretty awesome, but it's the color that really makes it good. ~95% of sRGB? Damn good, especially for a device you hold in your hand.

Necromancing this thread because I finally played & finished ME3 yesterday.

At first I was thoroughly confused by the ending. All I could see were plotholes... then a friend of mine on another forum sent me a PM to ask what I thought about the ending and while formulating my thoughts I had this amazing epiphany.

It is genius. It is the best ending to a game I've ever seen. Every reason I had for hating it turned into a reason for loving it after this sudden realization.

Haven't read the thread since page 2, so I have no idea if anyone else came up with this.

So here I am, with my 100% pure paragon Shepard. I played through ME1 three times with this character, ME2 two times and now ME3. Never, ever, not even a single time have I given in to a renegade interrupt or dialogue option. So this is the culmination of the epic saga, I have to make my ultimate decision about the fate of the galaxy, and what do I do? I choose the 'renegade' option of destroying the reapers for reasons I can't quite put my finger on.

So I'm explaining to my friend what choice I made, and when doing that I find myself frustrated with the fact that the choices don't seem to make sense:

The 'paragon' option of 'controlling' the reapers seems misguided, to say the least, because you spend almost the entire game convincing the Illusive Man that he's not thinking straight for wanting to control the reapers.
The neutral option of 'merging' organic and synthetic life doesn't seem to make sense because my Shepard just proved that organics and synthetics can co-exist peacefully (by making peace between the Geth and the Quarians)
And for some weird reason, the 'renegade' option of destroying synthetics seems the most righteous, aside from having some obvious negative side effects.

So I play the ending again, and this time around I find myself frustrated about my Shepard going along with what the god-kid is telling her. What, harvesting organics, so they can't make synthetics that they will eventually go to war with? What kind of circular logic is this? Why do I not get a dialogue option to disagree with the kid? Why is my Shepard buying that 'the Illusive Man was right'?

And then I'm noticing more things. When the control option is shown to me, there is the Illusive Man, trying to control the reapers. When the destroy option is shown to me, there's a shot of Anderson walking up to the thing and firing his gun. Why? So after finishing it a second time, I decide to take a look on the internet to see what kind of different endings there are. I find a clip for the 'best possible' ending, and my world is rocked.

I see Shepard's armour between the rubble, and Shepard seems to be taking his/her first breath.... wait a minute. Shepard's armour was completely obliterated. She wasn't wearing any chestplate on the citadel. And those ruins look more like London than the Citadel. And why does only the 'destroy' option result in the 'perfect ending'? And then I realize what a genius plot twist this is!

My theory is that the entire sequence after you're being blasted by Harbinger only takes place in Shepard's head. And the final 'boss battle' of the game simply consists of beating the Reaper indoctrination. It's genius, and it explains everything.

All three games long, you know which choice you'll be making. Left, Up or Blue, means Paragon. Right, Down or Red means Renegade. At the end it is entirely REVERSED!

If you go left / blue, thinking you're making the paragon choice, you're buying into the indoctrination and you'll end up like the Illusive Man, a reaper slave.
If you go 'the easy way out', the neutral option, you'll be doing what Saren wanted to do! You'll be tricked into thinking that there needs to be symbiosis.
If you go right / red, you're not buying into the reaper indoctrination, and this is the only way you'll break through the illusion and wake up.

It explains everything.

- Why the god-kid looks exactly like that kid you saw dying right in front of you on Earth. Reapers simply took from your brain someone you sympathize with.
- Why the god-kid uses circular logic. It's to confuse you.
- Why the god-kid talks about 'chaos' needing to be replaced with order. This is purely a reaper (synthetic) concept, and proof that the kid isn't real.
- The god-kid is only there to make it seem like the reapers can be controlled.
- Why Shepard is going along with the suggestion that the reapers can be controlled ('the Illusive Man was right after all') and that synthetics/organics cannot co-exist peacefully. Shepard can't think straight because of the indoctrination.
- Why the perfect ending only occurs when you destroy the reapers. The other two options mean you failed.
- Why Shepard is in armour, on Earth when he/she wakes up again. Forget about the relays blowing up. Forget about your friends running away. IT DIDN'T HAPPEN.
- Why you see Anderson shooting when the destroy option is explained, and the Illusive Man when the control option is explained. The reapers are trying to make it seems as though fighting is the wrong thing to do. As the Illusive Man says about Anderson: 'You would follow a man who can only see things through the barrel of a gun?' (or something to that effect)

It is all one big test to see if you can withstand the reaper indoctrination. It's genius because I felt really bad for going down the 'renegade' path in the final moment with my paragon character, until I realized it was the only right option. I can't imagine how bad it must feel to fall for the indoctrination and go for the control or symbiosis option. Because that means you failed to withstand the indoctrination.

Contrary to what the haters claim, the end doesn't nullify your choices at all. You just need to see it for what it really is.

I don't buy that either. Instead, I find that people are trying to make peace with what is essentially a rushed ending. They could have made it very clear what happened on the perfect ending, instead of making guesswork (MAYBE all that **** didn't happen, or MAYBE Bioware just ****ed up and Shepard is wearing armor).

Besides, if the Reapers were just trying to convince you not to blow them up, why even give them that sort of option? If you roll back everything happening, you're also rolling back the death of the Reapers, which means you're right back where you started. That's not an ending, that's just a stupidass time loop. Star Trek did that numerous times, except when they did it, it had closure

So no, I'm sorry, your proposition doesn't make sense, and it certainly doesn't save Bioware from the BS they've earned here.

But that's precisely the great thing of leaving things ambiguous!



Because if they don't give you that option, Shepard would instantly realize there's something wrong. (And OOU, you need to give a player all the options. You need to be able to make a difference and withstand the indoctrination.)

To me it's just so bleeding obvious that they're trying to twist your perception, by switching left and right and red and blue for the renegade and paragon options.



I see two possibilities here. Either Shepard managed to break free from the indoctrination and the final fight still needs to happen, or the thing actually took place in Shepard's mind but had real consequences. So, the Crucible was activated from within the dream, and Shepard wakes up after the reapers have been destroyed.

It makes perfect sense to me. All the clues are adding up.



Don't get me wrong, I really don't mean to insult you by saying this, but maybe you're being prejudiced about Bioware and therefore not willing to give it a fair shake? I could understand that, if that were the case.

The fact that they did the 'decision reversal' is very hard to refute, and everything just logically follows from that, IMHO.

There's no reason to think they even did a 'decision reversal' other than your 'indoctrinated' viewpoint.

You just blew up your own explanation and didn't realize it in that post:

"I see two possibilities here. Either Shepard managed to break free from the indoctrination and the final fight still needs to happen, or the thing actually took place in Shepard's mind but had real consequences. So, the Crucible was activated from within the dream, and Shepard wakes up after the reapers have been destroyed."

So either:

A. Bioware didn't finish the game.
B. The Crucible was activated and all synthetic life WAS destroyed, exactly as they said. How is that a good ending? You just killed the geth, and just about anyone relying on synthetics to live. Whether you're dreaming during it or not doesn't change the outcome.

Honestly, your whole explanation hinges on the fact that you hope only the Reapers have been destroyed, when you are given zero indication that this is the actual outcome. In fact, there's a lot of elements that simply say otherwise.

I posted plenty arguments for the decision reversal.

The control option is what the Illusive Man did, it's misguided. Like I said, you spend the entire game convincing him that he's not thinking straight for wanting to control them.

The 'symbiosis' option is what Saren fell for. It is literally what he's arguing for at the end of the first game, until Shepard makes him realize he's been indoctrinated and then he proceeds to kill himself.

Logic dictates that the only other option, destruction, must be the right one. This 'just so happens' to be the only possibility for Shepard to survive.

There's also a third possibility that the outcome as it is shown is still part of the indoctrination, and the synthetics/mass relays weren't destroyed, just the reapers. I guess we may find out when we get the 'extended cut'.