Oh dear

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No one mentioned salvia... It's clear you guys have different goals than me

I don't do designer drugs either. I've tried XTC a couple of times, and while the first time was fantastic, I really hate the hangover/depression you get from it. Lasted about a week for me. I felt so incredibly empty. It's really not worth it, IMO. Haven't done it in over 10 years and probably never will do so again.

Mushrooms / Truffles on the other hand, give you a 'positive hangover', in the sense that you feel really relaxed. All stress is just gone. It's like your mind realigns itself and everything just seems so much clearer. The grounded, more realistic perspective on life that Kirby's talking about. I experience it the same way. Still, it's a thing I do at most once a year.

I've seen friends have a bad trip from mushrooms, but it's a simple thing to get out of. Just have a huge bag of candy at the ready and start eating. You'll mellow out and sober up within minutes. Anything with lots of sugar, really.

A friend of mine did Ayahuasca with a spiritual group of sorts, here in the Netherlands. You can actually buy the dried leaves at some smart stores here. But another friend of mine tried those and said it wasn't the same thing as the real thing. I assume that means fresh product. He said you couldn't even compare it. It's definitely something I want to try at some point.

A girlfriend of mine has been growing San Pedro and Peyote cacti for about 15 years now. She meant to try it at some point but chickened out. Her cacti are still doing fine though, and she says I'm welcome to try if I ever feel the need. I kind of want to, but I hear the experience is really intense and can last between 24-48 hours, so it's really something you need to be ready for.

As for Salvia, a guy I know did that. He found himself without pants in a duck pond in the middle of a park in the city centre. He had no idea how he got there. I laughed my ass off when he told me.

For the same reason I have no interest in throwing up to experience altered states, I have no idea why anyone would do cactus. Refined mescaline on the other hand is a lot like booms with more visuals but without the social anxieties. It's also got the same wipe-effect that booms have. I'd use it instead of booms if it was more readily available here. I've honestly kind of lost the allure for the intensity and depth of tripping and just prefer to have low doses to achieve the "reset" effect every 6 months or so.

"And then we all got really stoned."

You guys remind me of this one drug-related forum that says in their disclaimer they're not about sharing experiences nor tips on illicit drugs, yet that's all that ever goes on there.

How is that? It's one of pretty much two mind-altering substances I've considered trying other than marijuana and alcohol.

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I've never tried it, and I guess I might give it a shot, but people tend to have pretty negative experiences on it. It doesn't cause any real physiological side effects or anything, but the disassociation of self isn't something many people want to seek out. That said, people who do a lot of meditation or have used isolation chambers seem to get something out of it. I really don't think it's worth even a try for most people though, as the panic/anxiety attacks are all over youtube.

To be honest, I really wish we had a different culture about drugs because it's silly for people to get this information second hand or casually. Not being a big fan of the mystification, I can't really relate to the shamanism stuff either. I just wish we had more language and ideas about these states that were beneficial and agnostic.

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See? Does this sound like a science?

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I'm probably wrong about that then. I remember reading about it in a book, but I might be confusing it with something else.

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Haha yeah.

and THAT'S why you need the science!

At the peak of one of my salvia trips my apartment opened up to the night sky as if it were zippered shut. I was pulled into the sky and flew directly to Disney World where I was promptly hit by a bus driven by my grandmother. On the comedown there was a very strong sensation of my whole body being pulled down into the ground. It was all very real and quite terrifying.

I had a sober friend sit with me and he said I got up a few times to try and leave the apartment, and said I was mumbling gibberish the whole time. I sweat profusely and had that pulling sensation for about 30 minutes after the visuals went away.

A++++ drug would smoke again.

The hallucinations sound interesting, but I dream enough already. Nothing else about that sounded enjoyable in the least, and the idea of having motor functions and a drive to move around while unaware is the reason I don't drink heavily anymore. Blacking out isn't very fun.

Salvia was pretty crazy ****. I just remember being in a reeaaaaally long hallway. It was beige. That's about it, really.

Dmt is pretty intense.

iummm koobie this is a pg rated forum we have 12 year old users on here like zloc

I've got one more question, which I'll direct to anyone on the panel who wants to answer.

What would I have to be on to convince myself that the word we were asked to decode isn't "Prague"?

You'd have to be on the chemicals regret and lust.

GOD DAMMIT YOU GUYS STOP DOING DRUGS

Stop snorkin the borkin.

"Snorkin the borkin" should be an expression.

okay but can i have some LSD first

I read that LSD can have some really negative long-term effects.

In fact, I've read that about a lot of the drugs I was inspired to read about based on this thread. It seems there is a continuum of sorts between totally ****ing your up, and ****ing you up so slightly that the long-term effects still don't register in the span of a lifetime.

For my dopamine needs, I think I'll stick to food, sex, runner's high, etc. I don't think it's prudent to **** with your brain's basic reward systems, except by engaging in activities that have been shaped by evolution.

We're almost certain that alcohol tolerance is partly shaped by genetics, so drinking might be off the hook by that definition. Of course, in alcoholics, the effect of addicting the brain begins to paint a neurological picture that looks like any other hard drug.

I can see why people like to smoke pot, but I've heard negative stories about that as well (mostly w.r.t. motivation).

Then again, for every unmotivated kid on pot you surely have 1000 drunks on the street. And probably there because of the alcohol. If you think about it the non-negative stigma of drinking in general is somewhat staggering (relative to other substances, anyhow).

I've read that LSD accumulates in your spinal fluid and for the rest of your life can cause unexpected flashback episodes. I've read that after five hits of acid, you're actually legally insane. I've read that some teenagers on mushrooms thought a midget/kid with down syndrome was a gnome and kidnapped her and put her in a closet and didn't discover their mistake until the next morning. I've read that every time you take LSD there is a risk of causing permanent psychosis/schizophrenia. I've read that sometimes people on acid think they can fly and jump off buildings and die. I've read that MDMA causes brain lesions and makes your brain look like swiss cheese. I've read that marijuana starves the brain of oxygen and kills brain cells.

I've also read that all of the above are urban legends, misinformation spread by anti-drug campaigns, and discredited scientific studies. I've read that psychedelics only trigger psychosis in people who are already at risk of psychosis. I've read that overall, they have a positive effect on mental health. I've read that they are very effective at helping people overcome addictions, depression, PTSD, interpersonal problems, and even depression related to terminal illness.

Sex gives you oxytocin, the runner's high works on the endocannabinoid system, and even these activities come with risks to your health if you do them irresponsibly.

Alcohol is a hard drug, and arguably a lot more dangerous than many illegal drugs.

It would be silly to base your perception of alcohol entirely on prohibition-era anti-drinking propaganda, frat boy culture, and stereotypes of drunken wastrels. Likewise, it is silly to base your perception of soft drugs on prohibition-era propaganda and stoner culture.

Also, regarding the loss of motivation from pot--that's a result of excessive use. Around here (Canada) moderate cannabis use is almost as commonplace as drinking, and the stereotypical unmotivated potheads are few and far between.

I've tried LSD only once, and it was the only time I ever experienced a bad trip. At first it was amazing, but at some point I became sick because I'd eaten something bad that evening. Needless to say, that totally turned my trip around. Won't do it again, no matter how awesome it was at first. The visuals are absolutely amazing and more intense and convincing than anything else I've tried.

The amphetamines mentioned on the last page have documented physiological side effects and should never be taken, unlike the hallucinogenics or cannabis, as flirb mentioned. I could be on medications that a doctor prescribes and have serious problems with digestion or my heart, or I could self medicate a drug and experience its moderate side effects. I still wish we properly studied and refined these drugs for actual medicated use, but their inability to be patented dooms them to the streets. Cannabis can be cultivated and consumed in completely non-destructive and non-psychological ways to combat pain, or to gain its health benefits. Vaporized inhalers can be made from cannabis to treat children's asthma without any amount of psychoactive compounds present. Growers today understand the plant well enough to make these things, but there's more profit in the psychoactive compounds. The stigma and social understanding of these things really needs to change so we can actually use them for their benefits instead of making piecemeal with illicit dealers and word of mouth understanding.

Yup. I know some people with MS who simply make tea from cannabis. They don't get the high, and their pain is greatly alleviated.

Hmm, well it looks like I've been a little brainwashed.

I'm not surprised at all that the pharmaceutical industry is often a malevolent force driven by patents and profit. It also makes sense that something grown on a plant, when properly understood and cultivated, should yield health benefits with less harmful side effects than something synthesized in a more artificial, non-organic manner. I totally agree with JK that we would be much better off if the incentives to actually understand these plants rather than produce something that can be controlled and profited off of. I suppose one must conclude, then, that the P.R. campaign to spread F.U.D. about drugs has done an astonishingly good job of making this a remote possibility.

For the record, I don't really drink either. I never adapted to the flavor of alcohol and it generally tends to be expensive (read: more expensive than water).

i once did a drug

One small glass of alcohol under duress and some kind of narcotic in the hospital after my appendectomy (never filled the prescription they wrote for me). That's it for me. Didn't even take a tylenol after my vasectomy.