On a related event on things police, no indictment on the Stanton Island chokehold case. Despite the video, coroner's report, NYPD's policies on chokeholds, etc. Somehow, not enough evidence for a trial for negligent homicide?

Yeah, honestly didn't see that one coming.

I did.

Predictable but awful. There was really no room for reasonable doubt as to whether Pantoleo caused Garner's death. The only question's whether Pantoleo was negligent (or reckless, or hell, even intentional), and if that's not a question a reasonable jury could conceivably answer in the affirmative, given that the chokehold/headlock/semantic-red-herring violated at least department policy and possibly the law, I'm not sure I know what reasonableness is anymore.

Reasonable, adj.

1. Soundness of judgement; fair and sensible. Example: "A white police officer killing a black man is always reasonable"

Bright side (??): Black people seem to know better than to riot in a police-state hellhole like New York City, home to America's longest and proudest tradition of hilariously authoritarian municipal leadership.

So relieved to hear that Garner deserved to die because he was fat, not because he was black.

tbf if police officers were intellectually capable of comprehending the consequences of their behavior, they probably would have finished high school.

Does JLee come around these parts anymore?

Haven't seen him in ages. Didn't he post like last christmas? Or was that longer ago... I really can't remember.

I've seen him posting stuff on facebook but as soon as I saw the subject matter I avoided reading any of it like the plague.

Well, statistically police work isn't all that dangerous, especially considering our historically low crime rate, so I'm sure he's safe and sound wherever he is.

Considering how personally and deeply offended he felt whenever anybody criticized anything about the police or a police officer, for any reason, in any country, including the marketing teams of their suppliers, probably because he had literally zero substance or character beyond his career, I assume he no longer communicates using any two-way medium.

For example.

Baconfish, just remember: think about the dumbest dip**** you know from the military. A cop is just a soldier too dumb to follow orders.

My favvo JLee ****fits:

- Being outraged that I would dare to post evidence that Taser International sales has been deliberately encouraging misuse to increase sales.

- being infuriated to the point of mentally shutting down when confronted with evidence that most police officers in Hurricane Katrina were too busy protecting and serving #1 to help the public.

I wonder how he would respond to the fact that police officers are 2-4 times more likely to abuse their spouses than the rest of us.

He would probably say it's because police have dangerous, stressful jobs, and that it's the wife's fault for making him angry.

It's the same reason that bullying is terrible in the nursing career. It happens in any position where a person has to coerce people to act in a way they don't want to. People learn to get their way with others by bullying, and that ends up effecting every relationship they have.

Affecting.

Don't forget the selection bias.

i.e. cops are terrible people because terrible people want to be cops.

Got any hard studies to back that up? Or are you basing this off of whatever personal problems you might have gotten yourself into thinking like that? I am not a cop, and I know what corrupt power hungry egocentric cops are better than ANYONE on these boards. Care to elaborate?

Cops are awful people based on the sum of everyone's personal and professional interactions with cops, ever. I count myself lucky I didn't decide to go into prosecution, because at least anecdotally (and I get a high volume of anecdotes), the worst part of my job would be cops ****ing up my cases.

See also

I mean, Jesus. Why would you expect people whose two main job requirements are a GED and a high level of interest in carrying a gun everywhere to be anything better than awful? It's like getting paid to be a Tea Party protester.

Beyond the fact that it is a more dangerous, lower-paying version of unskilled physical labor, which only losers would choose to do in the first place?

Criminals and police academy graduates tend to share the same responses on the MMPI. Some psychologists think these responses correspond to antisocial personality disorder (the mental illness your bully had). Others don't think the MMPI is a useful assessment tool. Regardless of your professional opinion about the test, by design people who respond in the same way necessarily share the same opinions about a lot of things.

There have been hundreds of papers about this and dozens of surveys. I'd link to one, but I really don't feel like digging up a journal paper you: 1.) don't have a subscription to read, 2.) don't have the money to read, and 3.) aren't smart enough to understand.



This is why you have no friends.

On that subject, SF_GoldG_01:

Do you actually eat ****, or does it just come out of your mouth naturally?

Big shock that the laziest, dumbest, wrongest high school drop out who ever done did post on this forum would openly express support of the police despite literally living in a corrupt narco-state where the police routinely round up and butcher students for saying the wrong words.

In case you didn't understand my point, SF_GoldG_01: you are human garbage and the world would be a better place if you did the needful.

How high a net worth does a person in Mexico have to have to rationally prefer the current performance of that country's police to the complete nationwide abolition of police departments, anyway? Got to be at least in the top two million, right?

I'm guessing not "high school dropout who plays part-time computer janitor" at least

Back on topic, Jon'C and McLongname must be reading vastly different sources about this case than I have been. For starters, both of you seem to think that Brown had just robbed that convenience store at the time. The proprietor of the store says that neither he nor anyone in his employ called to report a robbery, and that Brown wasn't the person who stole cigars (primary sources for this have disappeared as i can only find articles talking about it, so perhaps untrue). The video surveillance appears to show Brown paying for the cigars. Not to mention the part about how the police werent even aware of any theft at the time of Brown's death, which rules it out as any sort of justification.

And then theres the fact that the autopsy results show that a) due to entry wounds on his hands and arms, Brown could only have been shot with his arms up, like witnesses describe, b) Wilson went against protocol and shot brown in the head instead of center mass, c) no gunshot residue on Brown's body throws doubt on Wilson's claim that his weapon was discharged in a struggle with Brown.

This evidence and other breaches of protocol by the police that day all throw doubt on Wilson's story.

And then there's how the prosecution manipulated the grand jury by handing them an outdated law stating that LEOs are justified in using deadly force against fleeing suspects. The SCOTUS had ruled laws like this unconstitutional in 1984. Thats the year I was born. It hasn't been the law of the land for 30 freaking years. Then, sometime after Wilson's testimony, they gave them the correct law, and left them to figure out what the difference between the two.

I realise that my viewpoint has been influenced by biased sources, but frankly, all the evidence I've seen points to Darren Wilson being a liar, and that many people in the FPD involved in this incident deserving of some kind of punishment for their misconduct and breach of protocol.

But, I know McLongname is a lawyer who is smarter than me, and Jon'C is a lot smarter than me, so perhaps their sources give more evidence than I've seen and have shaped their opinions on the case.

You see, the problem I have with this type of statement is that you contribute nothing to improve this situation that you claim is widespread and massive. I don't consider police officers to be unskilled or losers, I think they are brave (and you said yourself, it is a very dangerous job) and have a sense of social commitment that you will disregard as egocentric, because you consider yourself to posess the ideal balance of commitment to your society. I recognize the fact that any modern society requires a voluntary police force to safeguard it and discourage criminal activity. The US generally has a good police force, the number of countries which would rank lower than the US in this regards is pretty high.



I looked briefly into this, and couldn't actually find a study stating this, I did however find a forum where a psychiatrist said this was an urban legend, and even if it were true, it would only show that police officers and criminals were more prone to anxiety and to be easily excited. Since one is always opposing the other, I'd think this is normal.



You need not bother, I already know plenty about the stressful lives police officers have. BTW: Point 3 is lovely, I thought you never went around flaunting your own intelligence at people, yet here you are making yourself look superior to me in intelligence by claiming I lack the intelligence to read the abstract of some obscure study that I am sure you are qualified to read.



Lovely, an accusation that does not further your argument, based off of nothing but your personal bias and insaciable quest to feel superior. That is why YOU have no friends.

I am not defending or standing up for the police force of Mexico, I thought it was rather obvious that I contrasted the horrendous municipal police forces of Mexico vs the police forces of the US, you should all learn how to read without injecting personal bias into other people's words. The abolition of local police departments nationwide is rooted by most of the population, and the replacement would be federal forces on continuos rotation every few months, making it harder for corruption to take hold. The current situation in Mexico is the result of complete negligence and illegal tolerance of drug cartels over decades, coupled with incompetent training, no protection and underbudgeting of police forces around the country. This is the result when you don't take policing seriously in your country and when you tolerate rampant corruption.

You know what is odd? I don't actually remember SF Gold really posting anything too terrible but he's going to continue to get mocked and ridiculed but Ford just posted something that's on a par with the worst hardcore conspiratorial Ron Paul-esque "libertarians" and he'll most likely get a complete pass.

I am not sure if Ford is trolling us or just has a very vague and disinformed concept of the Ferguson incident, which is why I am waiting for his post to either gain support or critiscm.

While he might have broken the law, his crimes definitely didn't deserve getting pumped full of lead. It's the kind of thing that we have tazers and CS/pepper spray for. It's just the symptom of a much bigger problem, not only with the police, but with society as a whole. You put any person in an environment where education and career development is placed at a lower priority, in favor of merely surviving and making enough just to get by, that person would grow up to do desperate things to get by... not to mention the other factors that help paint a bleak picture for those that grow up poor and/or a minority. And then you have the police, which are people given weapons and powers over others, with the job of sniffing out them evil wrong doers. They end up preying on those that they perceive as potentially being guilty of something, and worst yet, having little in the form of consequence when things do go wrong. If you're poor, black, hispanic, homeless, or whatever, you're a possible dangerous criminal.

I've only dealt with cops a few times, and I hated it each and every single time. The one occasion stands out the most is when I went to take my ex-fiance home. We had to stop at a police barricade, and one of the cops there was really friendly and cool with me. He let me through, I dropped the woman off at her place, and drove back. When I got to the barricade again, the SAME OFFICER came to my window, and grilled me about where I live, what I do, where I've been, what I've been doing, what I have in my car, and tried his damnedest to get me to submit to a search of my vehicle.

Jesus ****ing Christ...

...


I think I need my nap.

I don't see how a version of events related with as many caveats as Ford made really counts as being "hardcore conspiratorial". He's asking for clarification ffs.

A lot of what he stated I'd heard as well over on this side of the pond - that the FPD variously claimed that Wilson was/wasn't aware of a robbery being reported, that the wounds were inconsistent with a close-quarters struggle over a weapon etc. I haven't followed the case that closely myself and don't know the details of the grand jury decision (although it sounds like a lot of the eyewitnesses fabricated their stories) so I'm also interested to hear if these points have been thoroughly debunked or not.

A 5 minute google search and read will show you that Michael Brown had an arm wound that proved his hand was close to the gun when it went off and inflicted that wound, also his blood was found in the vehicle and on the side of it. A lot of what is circulating as information are spin offs of the false accounts of some eyewitnesses.

I need sources to hear the FPD claiming that Wilson didn't know of the robbery, because on the wiki page it states this:



Any other arguments?

Recusant's post is fine. He points to the very valid issue that the news media failed to accurately report virtually anything in the case. Or, succeeded in inflaming the situation. Take your pick. Regardless, my problem with Ford's post is less with Ford. He could just be misinformed or very informed on the nonsense that help rise tensions wrt this event. My problem is that nobody will likely jump down his throat for being so misinformed. Jon`C seems to be about as anti-cop as you can get but even he seems to see that a case where a violent criminal, which happened to be a very large man, assaults a cop after being involved in a robbery and ends up dead isn't the best case to make your point that the system is inhospitable to minorities.

Ford also hasn't spent years being an insufferable troll obtusely asking why no one likes him.

I didn't confuse Ford with you.

Ah, the classic "I know you are but what am I" defense.

You sly fox.

what, did you not scroll up