Massassi Forums Logo

This is the static archive of the Massassi Forums. The forums are closed indefinitely. Thanks for all the memories!

You can also download Super Old Archived Message Boards from when Massassi first started.

"View" counts are as of the day the forums were archived, and will no longer increase.

ForumsDiscussion Forum → Donald Trump
12345678910
Donald Trump
2016-05-06, 6:48 PM #201
I honestly think in his mind he was doing some clever parody of Jon`C's posting style, but instead just looked like an idiot.

I just don't know.
2016-05-06, 6:53 PM #202
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Have I mentioned this week how neoliberals like Wookie06 and Cruz are complete ****ing poison for anglo culture? You know, the thing they're supposed to "conserve"?


Also Wookie, since you probably don't actually know what neoliberalism means and don't associate it with your own beliefs because it has "liberal" as it's root, listen to these videos:

Sorry, don't know how to play this video :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkWWMOzNNrQ&list=PLA27CFAD836E1638A
2016-05-06, 7:05 PM #203
There has got to be a more concise synopsis of neoliberalism than that. I listened to the first 8 minute segment, and the guy was just rambling.
2016-05-06, 7:05 PM #204
So perhaps I should clarify one point first. When I stated that you can't be liberal and smart, I mean in regards to the general topic at hand which is US federal politics. Also, a comment above about conservative, liberal, and progressive as if they are teams.

Conservatives really have no place in the Democrat party so as they still linger, they're without representation in that party. As a subset in the Republican party they have some representation but it's reviled by the GOP establishment due to the fact that conservatives believe the federal government should operate within the constraints of the constitution. Most Republicans and Democrats, at the federal level at least, crave power and share a general disregard for the governing document.

I say liberals can't be smart because they obviously don't follow their ideas through to their logical conclusion. Simply put, a liberal that thinks they're for freedom somehow thinks they've championed it when they force a business to make a wedding cake for a lesbian couple. But really, a liberal is just a useful idiot for the Progressive.

Progressives have for the past one hundred years steadily progressed toward centralized government. Progressives know no party but Democrats usually aren't ashamed to admit when they're progressive. Republicans tend to hide it and proclaim themselves as conservative.

Fortunately, even if the slight conservative lean on the court is lost, we still have the constitution. For now, at least. But this really has been a fascinating discussion and to think that it wouldn't even be taking place if I hadn't challenged Jon`C's preposterous notion that Trump was courting conservatives. Trump should court conservatives but I believe he has already burned that bridge.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2016-05-06, 7:08 PM #205
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
There has got to be a more concise synopsis of neoliberlism than that. I listened to the first 8 minute segment, and the guy was just rambling.


Yeah, he's not always on point, but it's a decent one hour history if you can stomach it.
2016-05-06, 7:14 PM #206
Originally posted by Reid:
Also Wookie, since you probably don't actually know what neoliberalism means and don't associate it with your own beliefs because it has "liberal" as it's root, listen to these videos:

Sorry, don't know how to play this video :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PkWWMOzNNrQ&list=PLA27CFAD836E1638A


I don't really even care for any labels but to some extent they're necessary although I know things get confusing on boards like this where perceptions of meaning are different in other countries. However, if Jon`C is using a label to describe me that is associated with Hayek or Friedman I'll just take it as a compliment.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2016-05-06, 7:17 PM #207
Originally posted by Wookie06:
I don't really even care for any labels but to some extent they're necessary although I know things get confusing on boards like this where perceptions of meaning are different in other countries. However, if Jon`C is using a label to describe me that is associated with Hayek or Friedman I'll just take it as a compliment.


So then you're a neoliberal, not a conservative.
2016-05-06, 8:57 PM #208
Neoliberal, conservative, wookie06... Jon`C seems to hate us all equally.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2016-05-06, 9:09 PM #209
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Fortunately, even if the slight conservative lean on the court is lost, we still have the constitution. For now, at least. But this really has been a fascinating discussion and to think that it wouldn't even be taking place if I hadn't challenged Jon`C's preposterous notion that Trump was courting conservatives. Trump should court conservatives but I believe he has already burned that bridge.


Yeah, I'm sure you wish conservative meant something other than "Trump supporter", but that ship sailed in 1979. It's time to move on.
2016-05-06, 9:24 PM #210
Really though, I'm excited for you, Wookie06. You have no idea what a political adventure lies in your future. Will you join the Hayek-Greenspanian Libertarians, or the Rothbardian Libertarians? Or maybe you'll join the true blue Chicagoan Coalition? It always starts with a few identity politic malcontents complaining about democracy, but before you know it there will be no shortage of selection from subtly different movements, all pissing and moaning about how insufficiently conservative the others are. The same thing happened in the progressive meltdown, and it's going to happen to you, too.

Or maybe you'll join the... what's the opposite of the Green Party? The Brown Party? Probably not the black party, I mean, they're still gonna be conservatives after all.
2016-05-12, 1:18 PM #211
Originally posted by Wookie06:
due to the fact that conservatives believe the federal government should operate within the constraints of the constitution


lol
If you think the waiters are rude, you should see the manager.
2016-05-12, 2:02 PM #212
I can't remember if anybody has pointed out that Bush lost in 2000 and was only president because a Republican Supreme Court handed the election to him, so I'll point it out now:

Bush lost in 2000 and was only president because a Republican Supreme Court handed the election to him.

Didn't see any Republicans complaining.
2016-05-12, 2:26 PM #213
I'm just saying, if the Supreme Court suspends democracy, and you're okay with it because they picked your guy, but then you cry foul when they pick the other guy next time, you are a **** person. It's not smartly chosen ideology, it's partisan demagoguery. You can lie to yourself as much as you want but you can't lie to the rest of us.

Which is probably why Wookie06 has gone away again.
2016-05-12, 5:17 PM #214
Damn, was going to answer a previous question of yours but now it's this. I'll get back to the other one later. Gore had no path to victory. The election results of Florida were certified. No action any court would have taken was going to change the fact that Bush won.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2016-05-12, 5:20 PM #215
I don't really "go away". It rarely seems necessary to check back on a daily basis on such a slow forum.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2016-05-12, 5:48 PM #216
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Really though, I'm excited for you, Wookie06. You have no idea what a political adventure lies in your future. Will you join the Hayek-Greenspanian Libertarians, or the Rothbardian Libertarians? Or maybe you'll join the true blue Chicagoan Coalition? It always starts with a few identity politic malcontents complaining about democracy, but before you know it there will be no shortage of selection from subtly different movements, all pissing and moaning about how insufficiently conservative the others are. The same thing happened in the progressive meltdown, and it's going to happen to you, too.

Or maybe you'll join the... what's the opposite of the Green Party? The Brown Party? Probably not the black party, I mean, they're still gonna be conservatives after all.


As to what I'm going to do with regards to my politics and political support: We've all been together on this board and others for quite sometime. I don't really feel that I started to become particularly literate with regards to ideology until around 1999. Around that time I had a pretty firm grasp on how my personal ethics and values compared to various ideologies. I also decided to research the histories of the two major parties and found that there was really no comparison.

I say that to say that I am not one to run away from the Republican label because it is the only major party that has an admirable history and it is absolutely tragic what has become of it. Shills proclaim they're independents while Trumpeting Trump. Others are fleeing to Libertarian or whatever. I want to reclaim the party but that might not be possible at this point. The progressives in the Republican and Democrat parties benefit equally from perpetuating the same problems. The major difference I see is that there doesn't seem to be any rebellion to the agenda in the Democrat party. There is at least some in the Republican party.

With all of that being said, I plan to either write in Ted Cruz or vote for a third party I would prefer to rise to greater prominence.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2016-05-12, 6:05 PM #217
"I vote for the Republican Party because they're the Republican Party"

thats real ****ing neato
2016-05-12, 6:46 PM #218
After all of these years I still can't tell if you're a brainwashed robot or not. Tip of the hat, sir.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2016-05-12, 7:25 PM #219
Originally posted by Wookie06:
After all of these years I still can't tell if you're a brainwashed robot or not. Tip of the hat, sir.


That is not a confusion we share.
2016-05-13, 5:13 AM #220
Well, at least I'm not the only person to whom Wookie is refusing to actually respond.
>>untie shoes
2016-05-13, 11:30 AM #221
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Neoliberal, conservative, wookie06... Jon`C seems to hate us all equally.


It's pretty self-important to think you could possibly draw an emotion out of him as strong as hate.
2016-05-14, 9:52 AM #222
Not to mention contradictory if he is a robot.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2016-05-14, 12:35 PM #223
You've never worried about being contradictory before. Why start now?
>>untie shoes
2016-05-14, 4:11 PM #224
I'm not worried.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2016-05-15, 9:43 AM #225
I'm curious Wookie06, why do you actually like Ted Cruz? I mean, how is he qualified in any way to be president? I haven't heard a single thing come out of his mouth that seemed reasonable in any way.
Nothing to see here, move along.
2016-05-15, 9:52 AM #226
Because Ted Cruz is the Republicanest of the candidates.

He's already said as much, in this thread.
2016-05-15, 3:45 PM #227
Because Ted Cruz hates immigrants in spite of being one. He's the rare example of a conservative politician who actually shares the mindset of the base, in that he supports policies that would have been detrimental to himself years ago.

I forget which late night host mentioned it, but under Cruz's immigration plan, Ted Cruz would not have existed, you know, given his father's background as a communist revolutionary taking asylum from a war to study (read: spread communist propaganda) at the University of Texas.
>>untie shoes
2016-05-15, 5:56 PM #228
Originally posted by Antony:
Because Ted Cruz hates immigrants in spite of being one. He's the rare example of a conservative politician who actually shares the mindset of the base, in that he supports policies that would have been detrimental to himself years ago.

I forget which late night host mentioned it, but under Cruz's immigration plan, Ted Cruz would not have existed, you know, given his father's background as a communist revolutionary taking asylum from a war to study (read: spread communist propaganda) at the University of Texas.


I try not to read anything Cruz says because of my health, but inevitably I read his opinion on women in the military. The guy is a whack job that needs to disappear.
Nothing to see here, move along.
2016-05-15, 8:24 PM #229
Yeah, I pretty much agree with everything he says and Antony's analysis is bound to be highly flawed. Glad to see you're cheesing up to the locals Gold.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2016-05-15, 10:20 PM #230
Make this thread about Donald Trump again.

Make This Thread Great Again.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2016-05-15, 10:45 PM #231
Wowza!! you guys have not changed at all!!! this is like jumping in to a political thread from the mid 2000's!!

also... anyone know how to retrieve login info from old accounts?
2016-05-15, 10:54 PM #232
Let's discuss taxes, for example: Ted Cruz wants to abolish the IRS, institute a flat tax, and eliminate the estate tax. I'm not omniscient, so I can't speak to Cruz's motivations. However, I can talk about the big picture consequences. Let's discuss each in turn.

First, you need to remember what the IRS does. Their main responsibility is to collect the taxes which are owed, and as part of that responsibility, investigate and prosecute those Americans who fail to pay them. That part of their job is very easy for the vast majority of Americans, roughly 99% of them, because all of their incomes are from conventional employment and financial arrangements: such incomes are collected and reported directly by employers and banks. Curtailing the IRS therefore wouldn't change the situation for working Americans. It would still be impossible for the average working American to avoid paying taxes, but without the IRS, it would be much easier for the wealthiest of Americans. The result would be a society that increasingly values the idle rich, while punishing those who sell their labors. That is an unsustainable situation, as history has repeatedly shown.

Second, a flat tax won't simplify filing taxes for the middle class. The most difficult part of filing US taxes is correctly reporting all of your worldwide accounts, realized capital gains, and all other incomes that don't show up on a W-2. None of those reporting requirements would go away under a flat tax. After that, you have foreign tax deductions, which can't go away under bilateral tax treaties, and then deductions for capital losses, which wouldn't go away because they are properly negative income. So basically it wouldn't change the amount of work at all for middle or upper class people. As for deductions, apart from state income and sales tax, the rest are all either means-tested, so middle class people don't qualify, or it's so small-potatoes that middle class people aren't really affected. If all you want is a big expensive no-op, go hog wild. But if what I wrote here doesn't describe you, or if you qualify for the EITC, well,... you aren't middle class, and you shouldn't support a flat tax. (There's a macroeconomic argument against flat taxes, too, but if you still believe in flat taxes in 2016 you probably won't be convinced by evidence.)

Third, the federal estate tax only affects estates larger than $5,450,000. Large illiquid estates are safe, so it's very easy to get low-interest loans that will cover the taxes until your estate generates income or is liquidated. Eliminating it wouldn't help anybody, but it predictably would allow ever-greater intergenerational wealth transfer, accelerating the already inevitable La Belle Epoque of the United States. Seems like a tremendously unamerican thing to have happen, but that's none of my business.


Like I said, I don't know why Cruz wants these policies. But, none of those policies help employed Americans. Those policies only help people who don't have to work, who don't have to participate in the economy, who inherit money they didn't earn, or have income sources they can hide in other countries. Given that, it's hard to imagine Cruz has America's best interests in mind.
2016-05-15, 11:16 PM #233
Originally posted by darth_alran_:
Wowza!! you guys have not changed at all!!! this is like jumping in to a political thread from the mid 2000's!!

also... anyone know how to retrieve login info from old accounts?


:5buxplz:
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2016-05-15, 11:42 PM #234
Originally posted by Nikumubeki:
:5buxplz:


like this?

#fivebucks
2016-05-16, 12:04 AM #235
Got any... giraffes?
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2016-05-16, 12:24 AM #236
Originally posted by Nikumubeki:
Got any... giraffes?


for you sir only the finest.
2016-05-16, 12:41 AM #237
Yes.... yes....!

Also, you should contact Brian in case you want to have your old account's password released.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2016-05-16, 1:33 AM #238
Originally posted by Jon`C:
I don't know why Cruz wants these policies.

Well we know for sure why Wookie wants a flat tax: because he stays "politically informed", and of course wants to filter out the "extremely biased left wing media", so he reads conservative news sources, which in a more accurate way of speaking is one thin layer of detachment from billionaire propaganda fronts.

He's virtually admitted to being on the Citizens for Self-Governance email newsletter anyway.

I'd bet the trick to keep people like him is the cousin of what keeps people invested in Ponzi schemes. The combination of 1) really wanting what he's told to be true and 2) it being too painful to admit he's been wrong for decades. Or maybe he's just too stupid to add two and two and get something other than ten (percent).
2016-05-16, 5:10 PM #239
To be honest, I am quite eager to understand why establishment conservatives think a flat tax would improve America.

Wookie06?
2016-05-16, 10:04 PM #240
Quote:
Washington, DC – The Club for Growth issued the following statement today on Rick Perry’s proposal to create an optional Flat Income Tax rate of 20%:

“Rick Perry’s plan for tax reform would be massively pro-growth,” said Club for Growth President Chris Chocola. “A Flat Tax like the one proposed by Perry would unleash years of economic growth if it is passed into law. Furthermore, eliminating the tax on dividends and capital gains would immediately add trillions of dollars in new wealth to the economy, benefiting all Americans. Perry clearly understands that revitalizing the economy should start with a complete overhaul of a tax code that has nearly choked economic growth to death. Conservatives looking for a champion to carry the banner of a pro-growth tax reform will surely rally behind this bold proposal.”


From the Club for Growth SuperPAC. There's nothing really to understand about conservative economics, it's all based in the same myth that rich people spend proportionally as much of their income as poor people do, which is objectively untrue.

*shrug* Wookie probably won't reply. I don't think he actually knows why he believes what he believes.
12345678910

↑ Up to the top!