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I woke up this morning...
2017-01-05, 3:18 AM #81
I was kind of wanting you to respond there, PedHead. Like I said, I have no idea if you're racist or not, so I was just curious about that incident that someone mentioned. As for adding me, FGR, and GBK (and CoolMatty) to your ignore list, you might as well join an empty channel now. Whatever floats your boat, I guess.
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2017-01-05, 3:33 AM #82
Of course you wanted me to respond to your troll. It's there. I didn't make any of the Dralloc levels by the way.
2017-01-05, 3:58 AM #83
That's right about the Dralloc levels now that you mention it, I now remembered it was that Beefcaike.
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2017-01-05, 6:31 AM #84
Beefcaike was definitely an cool dude
2017-01-05, 6:39 AM #85
And a hit with the ladies.
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2017-01-05, 1:27 PM #86
Originally posted by PedHead:
Along the lines of threads turning to suck level in the Massassi community.

Apparently I am considered a racist with this community after being mugged by 4-6 black gang bangers in Chicago. This makes me racist. Pretty pathetic.


I have no idea what happened but this post makes it sound like you were probably racist about it
2017-01-05, 2:20 PM #87
Did you vote for Trump before being mugged by 4-6 black gang bangers in Chicago?
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-01-05, 2:22 PM #88
Originally posted by Mentat:
The second amendment is vague. There's a reason that academics/scholars, including the SCOTUS & several POTUSs, have debated its meaning since inception. You either don't know what vague means or you're pretending not to for convenience.


Let's be honest here. The only people that pretend the second amendment is vague or debatable are those that wish it didn't exist.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-01-05, 3:09 PM #89
Originally posted by Wookie06:
Let's be honest here. The only people that pretend the second amendment is vague or debatable are those that wish it didn't exist.

To this day, academics/scholars debate the syntax & meaning of the Second Amendment, & that's not because it was so clearly written to be undeserved of such scrutiny, or only because many of them correctly think that it was such a terrible & short-sighted idea that even a charlatan like Nostradamus could've accurately predicted the damage it'd cause. The Second Amendment is so terribly written & so vague due to said reasons that academics/scholars, & the SCOTUS have had to use precisely the methods that you espoused are unnecessary (e.g. studying context & intent), to determine its meaning.
? :)
2017-01-05, 3:10 PM #90
Slinging terms like racist around, especially to long-standing members of our community, is not something I want massassi to be known for. As everyone probably knows by now, I don't really control the direction of the #massassi chat channel nor even the forums anymore. Pedhead, I'm sorry you're being treated like this and I for one don't think you're a racist.

And to all you people who go back in time and dig up one or two comments or posts or whatever that might be considered by someone as racist in some context somehow and parade it about as if it actually is racist, you're doing something wrong and I wish you would stop.

First, let's try not to hate people. Second, let's try to be good to each other and find reasons to be nice instead of reasons to be mean.

Finally, this site has been here for almost 20 years!!! Some of us have been here from our teenage years or earlier and now we're freaking pushing 40! I want any of you who can point to a 20 year period in your life in which you haven't done or said anything wrong to stand up and let us all know. Tell me you haven't said anything racist. Or sexist. Or otherwise offensive to any group of people. We're all guilty of it, or have been guilty of something at some point in the last 20 years. So stop pointing fingers at everyone else and let's just be good to each other ok?

We can have lively discussions. We have have serious discussions. We can have heated discussions. We can disagree. But if we turn away everyone who comes back because they did or said something wrong sometime in the past this place will be gone. I would be one of those that would be turned away because God knows I did and said **** that shouldn't have been done or said (and I'm sorry for it).
2017-01-05, 3:10 PM #91
Jon, thanks for being so descriptive with the Electoral College past and present as you see it. I agree with much of you description but without going back and pulling a bunch of quotes to point-counterpoint I'll mention a few things off the top of my head. I would have been back sooner but I was really tired and I'm kind of glad because that other non-debate debate on the subject happened. That was weird.

Minorities and women not voting was a societal issue and certainly not just in America. It becomes a constitutional when the majority of states ratify amendments to force slower moving states along but this certainly would have taken place even without the amendments. I don't think the college was ever intended to insulate the process from this sort of change nor impose limitations by defining the states authority over elections.

Since the states are required to define the process in which they appoint electors, there's clearly no constitutional problem with however each state chooses to do so but you are absolutely correct that the process many states use today is at odds with the original intent. However, only about half of the states bind electors and it's certainly not uncommon to see electors vote differently than the popular vote they represent.

Despite the actual arguments of the day for the electoral college I think it really boils to down to two reasons. One of course is the need to weight smaller states slightly higher proportionally than the larger ones but the other is to insulate the election from ignorance. Ignorance could be simply from a lack of knowledge due to the logistical problems with spreading accurate information quickly at the time but even though we have the opposite condition today it seems that we might even have greater ignorance now. Seriously, it's absolutely ****ing terrifying.

I was going to post some thoughts on how I'd like to see some changes but what's the real point other than the intellectual exercise? I can say that I think an awesome conclusion to this election would have been for enough electors to have been peeled away for Trump not to achieve 270 which, of course, would have (historically) thrown the election to the congress. I'm guessing they would have been too scared to do anything other than elect Trump though.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-01-05, 3:17 PM #92
Originally posted by Mentat:
To this day, academics/scholars debate the syntax & meaning of the Second Amendment, & that's not because it was so clearly written to be undeserved of such scrutiny, or only because many of them correctly think that it was such a terrible & short-sighted idea that even a charlatan like Nostradamus could've accurately predicted the damage it'd cause. The Second Amendment is so terribly written & so vague due to said reasons that academics/scholars, & the SCOTUS have had to use precisely the methods that you espoused are unnecessary (e.g. studying context & intent), to determine its meaning.


I was typing a different reply but basically, you prove my point. And, yes, context and intent for understanding the amendment is irrelevant. It is not irrelevant to understanding why the second amendment is important so I don't think there's anything wrong with doing so in this or any other issue.
"I would rather claim to be an uneducated man than be mal-educated and claim to be otherwise." - Wookie 03:16

2017-01-05, 3:25 PM #93
Originally posted by Mentat:
To this day, academics/scholars debate the syntax & meaning of the Second Amendment, & that's not because it was so clearly written to be undeserved of such scrutiny, or only because many of them correctly think that it was such a terrible & short-sighted idea that even a charlatan like Nostradamus could've accurately predicted the damage it'd cause. The Second Amendment is so terribly written & so vague due to said reasons that academics/scholars, & the SCOTUS have had to use precisely the methods that you espoused are unnecessary (e.g. studying context & intent), to determine its meaning.


I'm with Wookie06 on this one. The only people who are "scrutinizing" the 2nd amendment are those that are trying to find some loophole to get rid of it. They're people that have decided that citizens should not have guns and are just trying to find some way to justify that decision. If the constitution outright said, word for word, "All citizens are allowed to keep and bear arms," they would be arguing about what "keep" means and what "bear" means and what "arms" means. In most areas virtually all non-lethal means to protect ones self have already been outlawed. You're not allowed to carry a weapon with a blade longer than ~3 inches, you're not allowed to carry blunt weapons, electrical weapons, stun guns, dart guns, blow guns, paintball guns, steel knuckles, nunchuks, etc., because they've all been banned. So apparently those aren't considered "arms." Only firearms. We're left with one last means of protecting ourselves and the democrats are trying to ban those. And they're going absolutely nuts about it. Here in WA it's now illegal for me to hand my gun to my friends or non-immediate family, did you know that? They can't get the actual government to pass these laws so they go to "the people" (via initiatives backed by big-money-democrats, which most democrats think don't exist for some reason) and convince 50%+1 that things like "gunshow loopholes" exist and that everyone should vote to close them, and next thing you know I can't go shooting with my brother-in-law. It's absolutely asinine.

I'm so sick of these people trying to take away my guns and my freedom to own them. They need to focus on the violent criminals and stop trying to take them away from the millions upon millions of law-abiding citizens that are using them legally and responsibly. They need to stop including suicides in their "gun violence" numbers as well -- banning guns won't help that number at all, they'll just jump off bridges or use a rope instead. I even read one story somewhere where they were saying instances of using a gun in self defense (like when someone broke into your house) was being counted in the gun violence numbers -- as if that type of thing was something we wanted to reduce!!! No way! If every home-invasion was met with a bullet to the face do you think it would continue to happen?
2017-01-05, 4:23 PM #94
Originally posted by Wookie06:
I was typing a different reply but basically, you prove my point. And, yes, context and intent for understanding the amendment is irrelevant. It is not irrelevant to understanding why the second amendment is important so I don't think there's anything wrong with doing so in this or any other issue.

Please explain how I proved your point. Granted, I mostly skimmed the thread but it appears to me that I've done the opposite. If context & intent are irrelevant, why have the experts on the subject focused so heavily on it?
? :)
2017-01-05, 5:28 PM #95
Originally posted by Brian:
Finally, this site has been here for almost 20 years!!! Some of us have been here from our teenage years or earlier and now we're freaking pushing 40! I want any of you who can point to a 20 year period in your life in which you haven't done or said anything wrong to stand up and let us all know. Tell me you haven't said anything racist. Or sexist. Or otherwise offensive to any group of people. We're all guilty of it, or have been guilty of something at some point in the last 20 years.

I'd hope that if someone pointed an example of that out to me I'd disavow it instead of doubling down. But that's just me.
2017-01-05, 6:46 PM #96
I didn't see anyone doubling down on anything.
2017-01-05, 6:54 PM #97
That's how it looks to me, but I suppose it's open to interpretation.

Is there a degree of racism so mild as to be less disruptive/rude than accusing someone of racism?
2017-01-05, 8:07 PM #98
Let me explain:

The whole "PedHead is racist" thing started one night when I was screwing around in #massassi calling GBK and others preposterous, baseless things. It's been a fairly routine schtick of mine in the chat room for years now. In the midst of all of it, PedHead joined the channel, and I immediately called him racist, not knowing he was going to fly off the handle about it, tell a story about how he got mugged, and then say a bunch of racist things that he rationalized by saying he was mugged by black guys.

So yeah, years ago I jokingly called PedHead a racist, explained to him that I was just joking, and then he proceeded to demonstrate that he actually is. This eventually led to him demanding that Cool Matty scrub his entire existence from Massassi, including deleting all of his maps from the main site and erasing all of his forum posts. I'm not sure what that was supposed to prove, but I thought it was kinda funny.

It's one of those "through the looking glass" scenarios.
>>untie shoes
2017-01-05, 8:41 PM #99
So let's get over it, welcome him back and give him the benefit of the doubt.
2017-01-05, 9:02 PM #100
Everybody's a little bit racist.
2017-01-05, 9:25 PM #101
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Sigh.

The original intention of the Electoral College was for Electors to use their own judgment to select the president. That is why Americans vote for electors instead of directly for the president.

Today, electors have no agency to independently select the president, sometimes by law, but universally by convention. They simply cast a vote for what the public wants. The Electors therefore have no authority and do not contribute anything additional to the system.

Electoral College is NOT synonymous with your vote distribution. You can continue to elect presidents in exactly the same way without having any Electors.


Actually this is up to states. Not all states bind their voters. However, most states have decided to assign voters on a winner take all basis. This is a really good deal for swing states, because their issues are disproportionately important to the elected administration. It's also really bad for everyone who isn't a swing state for the same reason. However those states won't want to switch because the voters in the majority would just be giving their opponents free votes by switching. It's kind of messed up.
2017-01-05, 9:26 PM #102
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
Everybody's a little bit racist.


Not me. We Germans are perfect!
Sorry for the lousy German
2017-01-05, 10:58 PM #103
Originally posted by Brian:
So let's get over it, welcome him back and give him the benefit of the doubt.


Welcome back, Pedhead!

2017-01-05, 11:00 PM #104
I see what you did there.
2017-01-06, 12:34 AM #105
Originally posted by Brian:
Slinging terms like racist around, especially to long-standing members of our community, is not something I want massassi to be known for. As everyone probably knows by now, I don't really control the direction of the #massassi chat channel nor even the forums anymore. Pedhead, I'm sorry you're being treated like this and I for one don't think you're a racist.

And to all you people who go back in time and dig up one or two comments or posts or whatever that might be considered by someone as racist in some context somehow and parade it about as if it actually is racist, you're doing something wrong and I wish you would stop.

First, let's try not to hate people. Second, let's try to be good to each other and find reasons to be nice instead of reasons to be mean.

Finally, this site has been here for almost 20 years!!! Some of us have been here from our teenage years or earlier and now we're freaking pushing 40! I want any of you who can point to a 20 year period in your life in which you haven't done or said anything wrong to stand up and let us all know. Tell me you haven't said anything racist. Or sexist. Or otherwise offensive to any group of people. We're all guilty of it, or have been guilty of something at some point in the last 20 years. So stop pointing fingers at everyone else and let's just be good to each other ok?

We can have lively discussions. We have have serious discussions. We can have heated discussions. We can disagree. But if we turn away everyone who comes back because they did or said something wrong sometime in the past this place will be gone. I would be one of those that would be turned away because God knows I did and said **** that shouldn't have been done or said (and I'm sorry for it).


This is all correct. Honestly, I don't remember even being around for the original chat between PedHead, Antony, and whoever, and I barely even remember Antony having some sort of shtick where he calls people racist. If PedHead were racist, I wouldn't even care. I've had some racist friends, and we've got along just fine and they've been pretty cool peeps overall. (I don't hate racists, I have racist friends!) That said, actually reading Antony's original post from 2012, I don't find anything incriminating as to PedHead's attitude toward any ethnicity. If he said anything remotely racist at the time, I would chalk it up to emotions from being mugged by a group of people who happened to be black. In all the messages I've ever actually seen from PedHead, there's never been a hint of racism.

Reviewing PedHead's screen shot with my question in the chat, on the other hand, my messages do come across as unnecessary trolling even to me. To be entirely sincere, in the chat (and on the forums, I guess) I'll often to say one facetious thing after another. I'm not entirely sure why it's even come to that over the years, but I do know I had no ill intent when I asked PedHead that question the other day. I understand why it didn't seem that way, however.

Finally, I appreciate the fact that PedHead and some others have returned to Massassi, however brief their return may be. I want them all to feel welcome back, and I want them to stay. I can see my conduct in the chat did nothing to convince anyone of this being the sort of environment they wanted to return to. I'm sorry to PedHead, and I'll make sure to be more reasonable toward him and others. I was already planning to apologize to him personally in the chat yesterday, but didn't happen to be on at the same time.
Looks like we're not going down after all, so nevermind.
2017-01-06, 12:36 AM #106
Originally posted by Brian:
So let's get over it, welcome him back and give him the benefit of the doubt.


Well, when someone donates money for a charity and then demands his money back after IRC drama: No.

[EDIT] Turns out it wasn't a charity after all! I remembered wrong, sorry about that.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-01-06, 3:26 AM #107
Originally posted by Nikumubeki:
Well, when someone donates money for a charity and then demands his money back after IRC drama: No.


I don't remember this level contest being charity Nikumubeki. I donated money because I was enthused with the community and I wanted to get back into level editing. I was treated like a shoe horn. Treated like this person that made this popular map. Piss him off, troll him as much as possible and get rid of a popular level that Massassi enthusiast hate. I made that map at the age of 14. Give me a break. I'm glad that Brian is back, because CoolMatty and his AGDQ cronies is not what this community is.


Around 2012 I started putting together an old IP board website called Valley of the Jedi. It was like an old school jkmag of posting your IP games.

Words of encouragement have not been well received on the Massassi spectrum through IRC with the current owner of Massassi - CoolMatty.


Here are some excerpts of our little chat. Such a buzz kill.


This will not make me stop doing what I love most.


Quote:
PedHead: there are players all over the world. I find so many asking questions on where to play MP again.


CoolMatty: oh no, not this again PedHead


PedHead: there is no centralized center for gamers, which is what jk/mots needs


CoolMatty: needs = needed 8 years ago
CoolMatty: *10


PedHead: I don't know what it is, but Brian would have my back. Whereas now it's like every idea I bring to the table these days massassi shuts down.


CoolMatty: massassi was easily one of the largest JK communities, period. and we're almost completely dead. many members haven't even PLAYED jk


CoolMatty: it's not like we're going to ban you for trying, it's just depressing


PedHead: umm. I beg to differ. I still believe there are people out there that still want to play a MP game or two.


ATTEMPTS OF DREAM CRUSHING


PedHead: I have nothing against you. What I don't like is that you challenge, or put down anything that is not Massassi. Being a small community in itself, most would expect encouragement. I hope that you might consider in helping out my new website Valley of the Jedi as a place for MP gaming.


CoolMatty: but I don't


CoolMatty: you're literally the first person to come up with anything in years


CoolMatty: and it's just a knockoff of ipboard


PedHead: which doesn't exist anymore.


CoolMatty: right


CoolMatty: because it wasn't even being used


CoolMatty: I just don't understand why you'd want to make something that (almost) no one will use


CoolMatty: because at best, it solves a problem that no one is saying they have problems with: finding servers. no one looks for servers because there aren't any. if anyone ever wants to play something, they plan ahead of time. this isn't something your concept is going to revolutionize, it's just a different place of doing that. thing is, that happens so incredibly rarely


CoolMatty: that writing a specific website to handle it isn't sensible


CoolMatty: and if you manage to attract the wrong crowd (such as the ye olde #jk crew), it will literally kill off any traffic it WOULD get


PedHead: stop. I have found many people trying to find others to play jk with. Me being one of them.


PedHead: rather than be closely connected through an IRC, I figure make it connected through a website and social media.


CoolMatty: "social media"


CoolMatty: you and I both know you're delusional about the number of people you expect to use this


CoolMatty: your 3-5 number was probably the most accurate. and that's not even a consistent number


PedHead: It's not delusional. There is Europe. There are folks who once played JK and decide to organize a game again.


CoolMatty: yes


PedHead: what is wrong with giving them a place again. Enough followers on Twitter, twitter will notify phones that a new game is posted.


CoolMatty: and that's happened at massassi


CoolMatty: once


PedHead: everytime someone posts a new game, it will update the valley of the jedi twitter account with a date and time. There is nothing else that does it.


CoolMatty: I don't know what makes you think every single one of them is going to commit to playing games at the same time from different parts of the world to come together


PedHead: so why not create it?


CoolMatty: because some of us don't feel like wasting 24 hours for a project that literally /will not be used/


CoolMatty: I'm not exaggerating or making **** up


CoolMatty: I put my money where my mouth is


CoolMatty: so prove me wrong already


I have nothing to prove. I will still proceed.
2017-01-06, 3:49 AM #108
Some further encouragement in the community: http://i.imgur.com/nCQDW9U.png
2017-01-06, 4:24 AM #109
Sorry.. And a little more: http://i.imgur.com/WPIak7l.png
2017-01-06, 4:34 AM #110
Nikumubeki, I'm so glad you made that correction with your edit. Not sure if that was sarcasm or not.
2017-01-06, 4:49 AM #111
PedHead, I don't think that Cool Matty was being malicious or insulting. I think he just thought that it might not be worth the effort to pursue that project, since there isn't a very wide audience for it, and it would require a decent amount of work.
former entrepreneur
2017-01-06, 4:52 AM #112
Why so much discouragement of keeping things going in the community? For CoolMatty to be Director of Operations for AGDQ and many old school games and speed runs. This right here is just insulting... Many on the #jk IRC feel the same way.
2017-01-06, 5:11 AM #113
I woke up this morning and my son told me to tell all my friends that I'm wearing penguin boxers.
Sorry for the lousy German
2017-01-06, 5:14 AM #114
Wear those boxers. Just know that CoolMatty had nothing to do with Massassi.
2017-01-06, 6:20 AM #115
Originally posted by PedHead:
Why so much discouragement of keeping things going in the community? For CoolMatty to be Director of Operations for AGDQ and many old school games and speed runs. This right here is just insulting... Many on the #jk IRC feel the same way.

Aren't you the guy that made JHS? My clan mates & I have probably played your level for hundreds of hours each. You may have been a teenager & it certainly shows, aesthetically, but I think that you should be proud of this level. Few Massassians, despite their often justifiable & sometimes harsh criticism of said level, were ever able to accomplish anything that was so well received by the players. JHS was one of those rare levels that was appreciated by both the expert & newbie players alike, & though I'm certain you'd adjust much of the gameplay had you set out to built it today, it was pretty damn good for the time. I have fond memories of playing 2v2 NF JHS with my friends & "enemies" & few things have made me laugh harder in this game than catching someone with the traps or knocking someone off the roof to their death. The JKDF2 "community" was quite divisive & unfortunately, JHS was the poster level of the rift between the editors & the serious players.

I disagree with Brian about his rant on guns (which I'll get to later if I get a chance), but I'm with him when it comes to giving people the benefit of the doubt when they come back after doing or saying something controversial (I didn't read the specifics & don't care). I was in favor of Wookie coming back & expressed this opinion, even though his opinions annoyed me. I'm a living testament to how much people can change over the years (right-wing fundamentalist evidence-denying Christian --> lifelong learner, atheist, & skeptic) & I'd hate to think that others wouldn't be given that opportunity. However, my advice is that you not get butt-hurt about it, ignore the naysayers, & demand your respect by showing them how wrong they are. I know that Massassians can be annoying (someone once bothered me for days, claiming that I didn't know the meaning of a word that I knew the meaning of, & then that person's supporters piled on instead of giving me the benefit of the doubt) & tribalistic, but there is some value here, even as we approach what appears to be death's door.

As far as discouragement towards JKDF2 & its remaining community, it'd be helpful if you consider that there's context that you may not be aware of. For instance, by the time you brought up your proposed community website, dozens of others had already come up with a similar idea, & the success rate has been nearly 0%, I'd imagine. I briefly took a stab at a similar idea, but my approach was different, & not only did I not receive any negativity, the people in the chat room were nice enough to give me a much needed & requested SQL-injection 101 course. I suppose that the primary difference was that I was coming at it from an "I'd like to teach myself HTML5, CSS3, JavaScript, & Rails." perspective, while also being fully aware of the fact that it'd likely never be used by anyone, & the best I could hope for was a constant hemorrhaging of "members" & eventual failure.
? :)
2017-01-06, 6:41 AM #116
Man, I remember when Massassi used to be about me. Now those were the years.
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-01-06, 6:49 AM #117
Originally posted by Nikumubeki:
Man, I remember when Massassi used to be about me. Now those were the years.


You're still there in many good ways. I'm looking for inspiration. Downloaded the multiplayer version of your level to see what is up.
2017-01-06, 6:54 AM #118
Those years haven't happened yet, FGR. They're the years 2019-2021, when no one else is posting but you, in endless threads of Space Ghost dialogue and references to hi-larious shenanigans in your past posts. ;-)

I'll still be lurking in those threads tho
2017-01-06, 6:57 AM #119
(it's true)
Star Wars: TODOA | DXN - Deus Ex: Nihilum
2017-01-06, 8:24 AM #120
Ok, I'm going to say this one more time: can we please stop digging up old threads and old posts and stuff to prove that people sucked back in 2012 or whatever? Let's focus on being cool now and move on ok? Just as I don't want anyone digging up old crap on Ped I also don't anyone digging up old stuff to insult CM. Despite any mistakes he may have made. This place is too small for us to be at each others throats all the time.
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