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2018-02-21, 10:04 PM #121
Looks like Trump is advocated it now.

Originally posted by CNN:
Washington (CNN)President Donald Trump, after listening to a series of emotional stories and pleas to enhance school safety at the White House Wednesday, floated the idea of arming teachers and school staff, an idea that was met with support from many of the attendees.

"If you had a teacher who was adept with the firearm, they could end the attack very quickly," he said, stating that schools could arm up to 20% of their teachers to stop "maniacs" who may try and attack them.

"This would be obviously only for people who were very adept at handling a gun, and it would be, it's called concealed carry, where a teacher would have a concealed gun on them. They'd go for special training and they would be there and you would no longer have a gun-free zone," Trump said. "Gun-free zone to a maniac -- because they're all cowards -- a gun-free zone is 'let's go in and let's attack because bullets aren't coming back at us.' "

The comment came during a White House listening session marked by poignant testimony from students and parents affected by school shootings. Trump offered some solutions, calling for more mental institutions and hospitals in addition to the idea of arming teachers.

"I'm not here to debate, but I lost my sister. And like Mr. President said, if you could find 20% of maybe retired law enforcement officers, or a teacher who could go through discreet training to carry a firearm around his waist, it could've been a very different situation," Hunter Pollack, one of Meadow Pollack's brothers, said. "We need more security, we need more firearms on campus, we need better background checks, and we need to study more on mental health."

Fred Abt, father of Parkland shooting survivor Carson Abt, said he had discussed with Education Secretary Betsy DeVos over lunch that rather than waiting for first responders to arrive, it would be more efficient to have firearms locked on school campuses.

"One possible solution, which may not be very popular, would be to have people in the school, teachers, administrators who have volunteered to have a firearm safely locked in the classroom who are given training throughout the year," he said. "There are plenty of teachers who are already licensed to carry firearms, have them raise their hands to volunteer for the training, and when something like this starts, the first responders are already on campus."

But not all agreed with that approach.

Nicole Hockley, whose six-year-old son was killed in the 2012 Sandy Hook elementary school shooting, took the microphone and told Trump she would rather arm teachers with ways to prevent shootings in the first place rather than with a firearm.

"Let's talk about prevention," Hockley said. "There is so much we can do to help this person before we reach this point."
But many others embraced the President's idea.

Andrew Pollack, a father of one of the 17 victims who died in last week's Florida shooting, said he was speaking Wednesday because his daughter couldn't.

"We as a country failed our children," he said. "This shouldn't happen."

He asked how it was that America could protect its airports, its concerts, its embassies and even the elevators at the Department of Education, but not its schools.

"How many schools, how many children have to get shot? It stops here with this administration and me. I'm not going to sleep until it is fixed. And Mr. President, we'll fix it. Because I'm going to fix it. I'm not going to rest," he said.

Standing feet from the President, Pollack raised his voice at one point: "I'm pissed. It was my daughter I am not going to see again. She is not here. She is not here. She is in North Lauderdale at whatever it is, King David Cemetery, that is where I go to see my kid now."

"My beautiful daughter, I'm never going to see her again. It's simple. Let's fix it," he said.

Justin Gruber, 15, who was affected by the Parkland shooting, said he was born after Columbine, which marked a new era in school safety.

"I was born into a world where I never got to experience safety and peace. There needs to be a significant change in this country. This has to never happen again," he said. "People should be able to feel like when they go to school it can be safe. There needs to be a change. People need to feel safe. Parents shouldn't have to go through the idea of losing their child."

Trump responded to the series of emotional stories from the survivors and parents of victims from the shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School by pledging to get to work on school shootings "two minutes" after the listening session.

"We don't want others to go through the kind of pain you have gone through," Trump said. "It wouldn't be right."

Trump, flanked by the students, went around the room and shook hands before opening the event.

Trump also later tweeted he would "always remember" the event, adding "we must keep our children safe."

"I will always remember the time I spent today with courageous students, teachers and families," he posted to Twitter, along with a link to the full event. "So much love in the midst of so much pain. We must not let them down. We must keep our children safe!!"

The event, hosted in the White House's State Dining Room, brought Trump face-to-face with students and parents who have demanded action on gun violence. The President -- who was elected with the support of the National Rifle Association -- has so far expressed support for regulating bump-fire stocks, which make it easier to fire rounds more quickly, and strengthening background checks for gun purchases.

The event comes a week after 17 people were killed at the shooting in Parkland, Florida, a massacre that has led students, parents and teachers from the school to call on Trump to take action. Students led protests in front of the White House over the weekend and another group of students walked out of schools on Wednesday gathered in front of the White House to demand action.

To date, the Trump administration has stuck to discussing taking action on guns, not actually lobbying Congress on moving any new legislation. But White House deputy press secretary Raj Shah said in a statement on Monday that Trump spoke with Sen. John Cornyn, a Texas Republican, on Friday about a bill he introduced with Sen. Chris Murphy, a Connecticut Democrat, that aims to strengthen how state and federal governments report offenses that could prohibit people from buying a gun.

"While discussions are ongoing and revisions are being considered, the President is supportive of efforts to improve the federal background check system," Shah said. Students, teachers and lawmakers have urged Trump and other Republican lawmakers to take action on guns in the wake of the Parkland shooting.

Any action on guns would be a balancing act for Trump. His political base of Republican voters overwhelmingly disapprove of most gun control actions and the President has enjoyed the support of the NRA.
Trump has not always been deeply tied to the NRA, though.


"I generally oppose gun control, but I support the ban on assault weapons and I support a slightly longer waiting period to purchase a gun," he wrote in his 2000 book, "The America We Deserve." "With today's Internet technology, we should be able to tell within 72 hours if a potential gun owner has a record."

Trump disavowed those statements during the 2016 campaign.


Polls have found, however, that most Americans blame Trump and Congress for not doing more on guns. A new Washington Post/ABC News poll released Tuesday found that 62% of respondents said Trump is not doing enough to prevent mass shootings and 77% say Congress is doing an inadequate job on the issue.


Trump vowed Wednesday that his administration would look strongly into gun purchase ages, as well as the "mental health aspect."
He thanked the students and the parents who participated, saying, "We're fighting hard for you and we will not stop... I just grieve for you, I feel so -- to me, there could be nothing worse than what you've gone through."


He continued, "Thank you for pouring out your hearts because the world is watching and we're going to come up with a solution."


2018-02-21, 10:14 PM #122
It's nice how every problem in the US can be solved by buying things.
2018-02-21, 10:18 PM #123
Hey, remember how all of the lunatic right wingers said the Obama government shot up Sandy Hook to pass gun control?

So what about Marjory Stoneman Douglas? Maybe Trump had it shot up to save Remington, force the schools to buy a whole bunch of $30,000 guns.
2018-02-21, 10:26 PM #124
I'm a little torn about how to feel about the families of the victims speaking out in favor of arming the teachers. I'm sure that isn't a uniform opinion among them, and I also accept that they might genuinely think it's the right solution, but something about Trump using them as props to advocate for something so loony seems a bit crass to me.
2018-02-21, 10:38 PM #125
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
I'm a little torn about how to feel about the families of the victims speaking out in favor of arming the teachers. I'm sure that isn't a uniform opinion among them, and I also accept that they might genuinely think it's the right solution, but something about Trump using them as props to advocate for something so loony seems a bit crass to me.


I don't see why Trump should bother militarizing the schools his government is trying to shut down.
2018-02-21, 11:18 PM #126
former entrepreneur
2018-02-21, 11:21 PM #127
Politicians sure do look different when they're talking to someone who interrupts them and points out the flaws in their argument.
former entrepreneur
2018-02-21, 11:55 PM #128
Originally posted by Eversor:


Wow. That was pretty intense.
2018-02-22, 12:08 AM #129
Originally posted by Eversor:


Another hysterical leftist exploiting the deaths of those murdered by an evil and insane person for political gain. Shootings are tragic, of course, but I really don't get the hysteria. In the US it takes about a week and a half to accumulate the same number in traffic fatalities as there has been killed in mass shooting in 50 years. These extremists that want to fundamentally transform America fervently working people up every time there is a shooting to take advantage of is obscene.
2018-02-22, 12:11 AM #130
Why stop there.

The ****in` Grim Reaper has taken the lives of roughly 100 billion people since humans have walked the earth. I don't think there's anything we can do to stop it, and it's certainly not worth trying if you're going to violate the constitution in the process.
2018-02-22, 12:25 AM #131
I bet that mixing child care and education with constant, oppressive reminders that other Americans mean you harm and can't be trusted absolutely will not backfire in any way.
2018-02-22, 12:28 AM #132
"If I have to choose between my tacky gun and the failure of my republic, I will choose my tacky gun every time." - someone who votes the same as Wookie06, presumably.
2018-02-22, 12:28 AM #133
back



fire
2018-02-22, 12:34 AM #134
I am sure there is a non-trivial segment of teenage boys who already resent being in school, and will now not only recognize the implicit threat that a firearm bearing teacher would surely imply, but also foster a morbid curiosity about the teacher's ostensible capability in actually, competently using the firearm to counter a surprise attack.

What, public school teachers can barely teach (they are basically administrators closely following a script anyway), and now we want them to be god damned marksmen?
2018-02-22, 12:35 AM #135
Also, can somebody please pinch me and tell me this isn't all a joke? I haven't checked the news too carefully, but it actually sounds like they are talking about this idea seriously? I thought this was just a meme.
2018-02-22, 12:36 AM #136
"Here is your state-issued firearm. We bought it from S&W under a no bid contract, so be gentle with it because the unit cost ended up being $19 million after R&D. You're allowed to have one bullet, and you have to keep it in your pocket."
2018-02-22, 12:42 AM #137
I guarantee that a non-trivial number of those one bullets will end up being used. Not on other people
2018-02-22, 12:44 AM #138
Looking back at that CDC chart (and the video of the Australian comedian), a significant number of those gun deaths are from suicides.

Given how comparatively rare school shootings are compared to other forms of gun violence, I am almost certain that by giving teachers guns you're actually going to increase the number of total gun deaths.

But hey, if it weren't an emotional, self-defeating, knee-jerk policy, it wouldn't be the USA.
2018-02-22, 12:46 AM #139
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
Also, can somebody please pinch me and tell me this isn't all a joke? I haven't checked the news too carefully, but it actually sounds like they are talking about this idea seriously? I thought this was just a meme.
Trump gets all of his policy ideas from r/the_donald, which is swarming with Russian agents. So whatever Trump says or does it's pretty much guaranteed to be a strategic blunder.

Like training all of your kids to be terrified of school, for example. That's a strategic blunder. Hope rich kids start getting interested in engineering fast, because between that and your fear of immigration, the United States is gonna run out of people to design those death machines you like so much.
2018-02-22, 12:51 AM #140
Maybe the reason Trump doesn't listen enough to people on the left is they haven't tried flattering him.

All you had to do was make a subreddit for stoking his ego (it's not like that would be vulnerable to foreign manipulation).
2018-02-22, 12:53 AM #141
I still like Jimmy Kimmel's idea that we should just make Trump king so that he can give up all his powers and keep the title, and we can all pretend to like him.
2018-02-22, 1:02 AM #142
You're gonna have to declare one of them king eventually.
2018-02-22, 2:06 AM #143
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
I still like Jimmy Kimmel's idea that we should just make Trump king so that he can give up all his powers and keep the title, and we can all pretend to like him.


Joking aside, I've been arguing for this for a long time. America needs a ceremonial head of state position that's distinct from the head of the executive branch. Like England (or Israel, actually).
former entrepreneur
2018-02-22, 2:29 AM #144
Between Eversor's advocacy for a return to having a ceremonial head of state and Jon`C's rejection of 'democratic capitalism', is there anything to have come from the American revolution that wasn't a mistake?
2018-02-22, 3:00 AM #145
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
Between Eversor's advocacy for a return to having a ceremonial head of state and Jon`C's rejection of 'democratic capitalism', is there anything to have come from the American revolution that wasn't a mistake?


The fourth amendment
former entrepreneur
2018-02-22, 3:01 AM #146
We were all fourth amendment scholars during the Bush administration who doesn't miss that? That was way better than being first and second amendment scholars (which is where we are now).
former entrepreneur
2018-02-22, 3:05 AM #147
Also, the tenth amendment. I miss when federalism was at the core of what the Republican party stood for. Now it's not even a talking point.
former entrepreneur
2018-02-22, 3:27 AM #148
Originally posted by Eversor:
We were all fourth amendment scholars during the Bush administration who doesn't miss that? That was way better than being first and second amendment scholars (which is where we are now).


The second amendment emphasis is painfully obvious. But the reasons for the first amendment being in vogue are slightly more amusing.

For whatever reason, it seems that interest in the first amendment is tending to increase proportionally with the number of loudmouth idiots with an audience. It's as if they are never satisfied.
2018-02-22, 3:30 AM #149
Originally posted by Eversor:
Also, the tenth amendment. I miss when federalism was at the core of what the Republican party stood for. Now it's not even a talking point.


I think it was basically overshadowed by their opposition to the ACA. Ron Paul was all about federalism, but his son Rand Paul basically just hates Obamacare.
2018-02-22, 3:40 AM #150
Speaking of which, have they just given up on repealing the health care bill? Their constituents must view them as failures if they can't even get that done, after all those years of bitter complaints about it.
2018-02-22, 3:42 AM #151
I mean, honestly, you guys, do you really stand for anything? Wookie? What do you guys stand for?
2018-02-22, 3:49 AM #152
I think Republicans say they successfully repealed Obamacare because the tax cut repealed the individual mandate.
former entrepreneur
2018-02-22, 3:51 AM #153
Is that what they were talking about when they said it "kills jobs"? I know that repealing the individual mandate has the potential to **** up insurance markets to the point of making the program dead, but in the mean time, weren't they all complaining about how ObamaCare was "crushing small businesses"?
2018-02-22, 3:54 AM #154
Were they? Seems like a weird argument, given that Obamacare is primarily concerned with a private health insurance market that people buy when they don't get health insurance from their employer. But... Republicans make weird arguments.
former entrepreneur
2018-02-22, 3:56 AM #155
Quote:
So what changes are small-business owners looking for in a revised federal health-care bill? Topping the list is the overturn of the individual mandate that requires employers with 50 employers or more to provide health care or pay penalties.


https://www.cnbc.com/2017/05/05/why-60-percent-of-small-business-owners-want-obamacare-repealed.html

hmm.
former entrepreneur
2018-02-22, 4:03 AM #156
That's right, I remember what you guys stand for: getting rid of taxes.

In fact, that's what this whole country has always stood for. So congrat on being patriotic I guess.
2018-02-22, 8:57 AM #157
Honestly the most effective way to limit gun violence while also limiting gun control would be full enforcement of the ESA. This would also have the wonderful effect of removing those cars both of your sides like to circle jerk about, since it doesn't matter how many people die in accidents, their emissions, the emissions associated with manufacturing and maintaining them, and the structure they impose on our society are contributing to the collapse of the biosphere and are a much more pressing problem than guns to remove from our society.

Conveniently, with enforcement of the ESA, not very much ammunition is going to get manufactured, sidestepping this delusional idea that we can get rid of guns in this country. It would also transition us to a steady state economy and probably allow us to focus more capital on actually developing the BECCS technology that does not exist at scale yet figures into every IPCC scenario except RCP 8.5 and the fusion energy that we will need to sequester carbon with any other tech.

lmao

Also I missed this:

Originally posted by Reid:
How can anyone have that kind of money to drop, yet be unable to find a person?

It's like, if you had four figures and a weekend, and were.. competent.. you could find a partner.


I am going to buy one of those when (more like if haha) Ethereum implements PoS because one of my girlfriends has a mannequin fetish.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
2018-02-22, 10:23 AM #158
Originally posted by Spook:
Honestly the most effective way to limit gun violence while also limiting gun control would be full enforcement of the ESA.


Congratulations on finally pushing the industry towards caseless ammunition and/or coilguns.

Seriously though, there are lots of things you can do to reduce gun violence without prohibiting firearms. The Canadian PAL accomplished this quite conclusively. Or you can force gun owners to pay the social cost of gun violence through taxes on firearms and ammunition. Or cap and trade.
2018-02-22, 11:14 AM #159
Originally posted by Reverend Jones:
I mean, honestly, you guys, do you really stand for anything? Wookie? What do you guys stand for?


Is this a joke? Last time he posted in here he was called a "piece of ****," why on earth would anyone with a view opposing yours* post in here?

* "yours" being the 3-4 of you that all agree with each other and use sarcasm and insults to chase any contrary views or information out of every thread

There are plenty of us that disagree with what you guys are saying about gun control in here but we're no longer interested in getting caught up in arguments because it's completely pointless. There's nothing any of us can say that will change your mind and there's nothing you can say that will change our minds. Nobody is reading these threads with an open mind actually trying to find a solution, everyone is just parroting the same old crap that's never worked and never will work, and resorting to insults, sarcasm, attacks, and "ZINGS" is never going to help anything. Seriously, go back and read the tone of this thread, and then come back and act surprised again that you can't get any meaningful discourse.

At the very least, however, you** can be civil.

** "you" being directed at the people who have not been being civil
2018-02-22, 11:21 AM #160
Originally posted by Jon`C:
Congratulations on finally pushing the industry towards caseless ammunition and/or coilguns.


I'm glad you agree that this is a fruitless endeavor.

Quote:
Seriously though, there are lots of things you can do to reduce gun violence without prohibiting firearms. The Canadian PAL accomplished this quite conclusively. Or you can force gun owners to pay the social cost of gun violence through taxes on firearms and ammunition. Or cap and trade.


But there are a bunch of much more important things, that properly implemented would have the same or more effect. Though, all of those things involve developing some sort of cap and trade system which this could be rolled into I suppose, but if we are actually solving the big problem, we aren't going to have much time or play in the carbon budget for mass manufacture of sci fi guns, let alone these 20th century designs we are using.
Epstein didn't kill himself.
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