Good Lawd. I'm gone for four months and the Trump thread is still managing a staggering 100% "wow, this is what Massassi has become" post rate. Maybe that's impressive.

(At least Koobie brought a Massassi twist to his threads)

I was thinking of starting an annual Nikumutradition of sorts, by once again ask Brian to carry out a restructuring of the Massassi Forums (renaming the Discussion Forum as r/PretentiousPatrol), but I accidentally resorted to thinking a teeny bit (which in Nikumuterms is 100% usage of whatever little brain activity there is) and came up with this poll instead.

Do you think Brian regrets having taken control of Massassi (for the second/third time) in 2016? As you can see from the main page (and threads of the time), he actually had energy and plans for the revitalization of Massassi... which fizzled out rather quickly.

Also, a "historical" anecdote, for a moment in late 2015 it seemed like Massassi was about to become a FastGamerr/GBK joint venture but GBK was sort of hesitant to take over the server hosting duties even when CoolMatty first suggested the idea to him, so he's been glad about not having taken over the site ever since.

(He also betrayed me in #massassi by getting a wife and kids, but that's another thread. Or this thread.)

Like, are the server costs low enough for it to not be too much of a hassle to keep this place just lingering around?

Do you think these threads help... whatever it is you're trying to do?

FGR is right in identifying the problem, but imo his recent posts do more to ameliorate the problem than the solution he proposes. Keep Massassi weird.

The Trump thread and the math and science threads might be becoming a larger portion of the activity on this forum and that sucks. But the best way to fix it is by people starting new threads about whatever else it is that they want to talk about.

God forbid some "pretentious" people want to discuss such fringe topics as politics and science.

If Nikumubeki has identified the problem, he's clearly not interested in solving it. He purposely decreases participation by putting himself in these timeout things. When he's not doing that, he posts threads to discourage discussion and insult the people who participate in them, lobby for Brian to shut down discussion (either by banning specific topics, by making the forums insulting to its users, or by shutting down the forums/site entirely), or by arguing for the same dumb spamming whitenoise troll to get unbanned over and over again.

In other words, he's not helping. But I don't know what he thinks he's doing. That's why I asked.

linger, on Massassi

I find his posts and the conversations he starts more amusing than most of the other stuff on this forum and I wish there were more like them. This forum has had a serious side to it, but it also had a zany humorous side to it that is equally as worthwhile and FGR brings that out in his posts.

I also don't mind someone advocating closing the forum altogether. It forum doesn't really provide the value that I once thought made it worthwhile anyway. It's a conversation worth having, whatever the outcome is.

I'll agree if Nikumubeki ever makes a real post again, instead of ~zany stfu~.

Look, if you think the forums are so far beyond repair that you don't think they should exist anymore, that's a really easy problem for yourself to solve. Don't make your problem mine.

I'm not saying the conditions aren't ****ty, I'm just saying that shutting down the forums isn't a real solution. It's not up to any of us anyway.

You're now the one who's trying to shut down a discussion. You see that, don't you?

Anyway, I share FGR's frustration that the Trump thread and political discussion more broadly are both taking up too large a portion of conversation on this forum. I'd add to it my frustration is that this place is increasingly becoming a safe space for witless "****posting" and hostility to any politics that isn't leftist anti-liberalism.

I am energetically disagreeing with people who believe shutting down all discussions forever is compatible with the goal of improving our discussions. You can believe that is hypocritical if you want.

You're at least a quarter of the Trump thread, dude.

So? My politics aren't leftist anti-liberal politics, and I have no control over what other people who participate in that thread do.

I don't even know where to begin.

Go for it.

By the way, not an invitation to be rude, but go ahead and speak your mind.

Are you really upset about the fact that it's becoming a safe space for leftist anti-liberals, or are you just upset that it's not a safe space for you?

Given how few people are on the forum those two things are basically one and the same. I mean, shouldn't it be a safe space for me? Or for Brian? Or for Wookie? In general, people are dropping out of the discussion on that thread, either because they find it uninteresting or because it's so rancorous, and since it's such a large portion of the total conversation happening on this forum, it means in effect that people are being driven away from the forum.

I sympathize with the idea that it's killing the forum, although I don't think killing the thread or restructuring the forum will help.

Go figure that you're response to this initially was "if you don't like it, then leave". People have been doing that without being given an ultimatum.

I'm not going to apologize for believing what I believe, or for engaging with subjects about which I'm passionate. I'm a market socialist and I like to argue. If you're not comfortable discussing your beliefs the way I do, with the understanding that others might consider them fair game for dispute, then, well, all I can say to you is - you're an adult. You're responsible for setting the tone and rules for a discussion you want to have. Literally nothing is stopping you from starting your own discussion on your own terms, whether it's a safe space for like-minded people or just a discussion where nobody contradicts each other. I can't promise that other people will respect your terms, but I would, and I'm sure that's something Brian would consider enforcing.

It's not my job to guess what you want and then make it happen. I'm not your servant. Be the change you want to see in the world, Eversor.

Oh **** off. I didn't tell people to leave.

Look, I can't squeeze blood out of a rock. Despite that, taking responsibility for the character of the discussion is exactly what I'm trying to do now. Also, I do try to lead by example. But I'm not my own interlocutors.

I'd be happy to have discussions where people energetically engaged and expressed their views, no matter what they are -- whether left or right. To my mind one of the key problems is that that's often not the discussion that we're having. Don't think my frustrations are total: very often we do have fruitful conversations where that is what's happening. But there's also a lot of spam, and I think increasingly we're becoming better at predicting how the other people engaged in this conversation will react whenever one of us posts something (and, increasingly, that means just you, me and Reid). I imagine that we often don't think it's worth getting into it all anymore, because we know approximately how it will turn out.

If I wanted to see vapid, sarcastic and scathing remarks made with the assumption that everyone listening is going to agree with them, and then frustration when someone disagrees as if they're ruining the party, I'm sure there's more than one sub-reddit for that. In terms of producing rules that make more productive and meaningful conversation, I don't know what they'd be, but I honestly suspected that simply acknowledging this stuff would go a long way toward fixing it. At this point, the community is small enough that the character of the interpersonal relations go a long way in shaping it.



I know. that's literally what I said. However, you did tell me to just moments ago, in so many words.

Here's a tip. The last time you tried to "lead by example" - by which I mean, directly confront us about being intolerant to other views in the Trump thread - you weren't trying to start your own more even-tempered discussion. You were trying to shut down our ill-tempered one. Those are different things. Obviously based on literally decades of behavior, some of us just want to be ****ty sometimes and scientifically deduce that all conservatives are Hitlers. Just because you don't want to be a part of that discussion doesn't mean we shouldn't be allowed to have it.

This isn't squeezing blood from a stone. This is about realizing that we're all different people. Sometimes people can have good discussions about certain subjects, sometimes we can't. It's fine and healthy to not want to talk about certain things with certain people.


I honestly don't know what you're talking about.

If you think those are the times when I was trying to lead by example -- rather than to lead by directly pointing out something that was annoying -- then you're sorely mistaken and a little confused.




You may notice that you've continued to make these remarks and I've responded with silence.



Would you, me and Reid continue to have these conversations if it weren't for the fact that this website existed? Would we miss them? This site is a venue for a small group of people to gather to talk. That's it's purpose for existing. Isn't it? Or are we just perpetuating Massassi for nostalgia's sake, no matter how horrible and nasty things get? Would we want to have them on some other medium if this site didn't exist?



Here:

You aren’t listening to me at all.

I'm going to assume that there's more on the way and that this isn't the conversation stopper it would otherwise be.

There isn’t anything else we can discuss. I made constructive proposals, and you brushed them off because (I guess) anything short of fascistic control over all decorum isn’t good enough.

If you can’t agree to have separate discussions for certain topics, then there’s no path forward. One of us will keep posting and the other one won’t. Or neither of us will.

So it was a conversation stopper.

Look, there's plenty to discuss. Clearly you just don't want to. If you did, you would've responded to what I had to say productively, instead of with a baseless accusation and by implying that I was a fascist.

I do this *because* I acknowledge the need to have separate discussions.

Eversor what the PACKARD BELL did you do to my thread!?

I'm not going to apologize for believing what I believe!!

I would prefer to continue my conversations with people here once the forums are gone.

Believe it or not, I think you're a smart dude and your views have shaped mine in a few ways. You'll notice I used to be pro-Wikileaks and a bit more conspiratorial, and now I'm done with Wikileaks and think less conspiratorially. Part of that was due to you calling me out and I appreciate that you had tha effect.

You do have this tendency that, when a conversation gets heated, to keep reinterpreting a person's posts in the same way when they're trying to clarify their point. Often if the conversation cools down you stop doing that. It's part of why I try to keep from getting into heated discussion with you.

FGR, I appreciate that you're not a fan of the Trump thread, and I can't blame you. But I don't see what your remedy is. What kind of posting would you prefer to see? I can try to adapt my posting style to be more inclusive, but I need some direction.

I'll try to be more cognizant of that and try to catch myself doing that in the future. However that's not what happened in the conversation Jon and I just had.

Less ****posting!!

Oh no, my time is over 'round here. All I need is just one person to check this FGR memorial video out and I'll be on my way again.

You're our only hope

Why come bother people then if you're not here for any legit purpose? Seems like something an ******* would do.

Finally.

I don't know why I come here at all.