Originally posted by clan ruthervain

SirMixALot - I LIKE BIG BUTTS! [legendary] but thats old skool rap, before they got too popular.

Originally posted by clan ruthervain
Stuff

That is one segment of the rap community, the one that happens to be popular. The fact is, if you knew about other types of rap, you wouldn't be rattling off stupd crap like tha.

The Roots! horray!

I despise rap of all varieties. It is totally unappealing to me - I hate the sound, format, and subject matter. IMO, most rap does not equal music. Rock > rap. /rant

I like The Roots and Outkast. Particularly Andre 3000, who has a lot of culture, apparently. His music is pretty cool.

I'm usually listening to jazz, though.

Originally posted by Avenger
The Streets: From the UK. Pretty popular there from what I've heard. Nothing like Gangsta rap, at all.


Nate Dogg, anyone? That man does choruses like no other.

Originally posted by Compos Mentis
I love the streets, but it's a group you'll either love or hate because it's a little quirky.

white guilt defensiveness

Originally posted by Ubuu
you hste rap, but like eminem? i can give yall the name of some songs he raps on, like "go to sleep" where the whole song is about killing a well known rapper...or "kill you", where he talks about killing his wife. this thread is just another example of ignorance about something you guys know nothing about. I dont mind people hating rap, but i hate when people like eminem cause the only radio single that had heard from him is mosh. listen to a whole eminem cd before you think he is the god of rap.

Originally posted by Ubuu
I dont mind people hating rap, but i hate when people like eminem cause the only radio single that had heard from him is mosh. listen to a whole eminem cd before you think he is the god of rap.

Originally posted by Shintock
BEAST - IE - BOYS.

What guilt do I have to be defensive about? I personally didn't enslave people, so why should I defend something I didn't do?

you hste rap, but like eminem? i can give yall the name of some songs he raps on, like "go to sleep" where the whole song is about killing a well known rapper...or "kill you", where he talks about killing his wife. this thread is just another example of ignorance about something you guys know nothing about. I dont mind people hating rap, but i hate when people like eminem cause the only radio single that had heard from him is mosh. listen to a whole eminem cd before you think he is the god of rap.

Originally posted by MentatMM
In my opinion, there's too much quality music in this world to need to listen to rap.

you hste rap, but like eminem? i can give yall the name of some songs he raps on, like "go to sleep" where the whole song is about killing a well known rapper...or "kill you", where he talks about killing his wife. this thread is just another example of ignorance about something you guys know nothing about. I dont mind people hating rap, but i hate when people like eminem cause the only radio single that had heard from him is mosh. listen to a whole eminem cd before you think he is the god of rap.

* The only rap I can stand is Eminem. This guy started off as another wannabe rapper and he has turned into the only talent!

Originally posted by MentatMM
I grew up on rap music, but I'm unable to tolerate it these days. I don't care if they're rapping about politics, religion, or astro-physics, it still irritates me. In my opinion, there's too much quality music in this world to need to listen to rap.

Originally posted by MentatMM
In my opinion, there's too much quality music in this world to need to listen to rap.

Originally posted by SAJN_Master
Are you refering to Kim? That was some of the earlier music I am refering too. 100% of Eminems songs aren't OMG GOD AMAZING! But more of his songs are quality they anyone else I have heard. He is witty, he is smart, he has a sense of humor, he knows what he is doing.

Everyone has there definition of quality music. Mine happens to be anyone who is good enough to contribute to a genre at a very high level. Never said rap is talentless if you can't do it.

So...can you substantiate that?

Hobbes and Hip Hop, Yo! (essay)

Hey guys. This is an essay I wrote for my History 121 class comparing Hip Hip and Hobbes' social contract theory. There are some things I tailored for an audience less familiar with hip hop, so don't get too fussy over extreme details. There are perhaps some references to Hobbes and Locke which you may not get, but it was also aimed at an audience with a basic knowledge of them (and what a social contract is)-- but don't sweat it, it's not too hard to follow. In any case, I really enjoyed writing this. I ended up getting 85% on it (university). And in case you're wondering, this is 100% original and authentically my own work--- please do not copy/bite it (without referencing at least).

Notes on the text:
1. I didn't mention DJ Kool Herc and talked more about Bambaataa because he is more relavant to the subject altogether.
2. I know Rapper's Delight wasn't the first rap song and I haven't claimed it to be.
3. In case you're wondering, I actually did have a conversation with Senim Silla in which he said what I quoted him on.
4. The quote “As style developed on the street, for the street, by the street, graffiti. . .loses its essence an whole point when its on an enclosed canvas," is from a book but I forgot to footnote it and I returned it to the library a while ago so I do not know exactly what book it is from.
5. I don't quite know how to make small numbers so references to footnotes are crudely just indicated by large numbers which will correspond to the footnotes.
6. I couldn't fully find where Joyful Rebellion and Masters of the Universe where produced but I came up with their locations through my deductive reasoning abilities.


Enjoy!:


Thomas Hobbes and hip hop—logical connection right? A seventeenth-century philosopher and a culture most readily identified with ‘*****es, drugs, guns and money’—not much explanation is needed, true? The phenomena of hip hop quite simply cannot be denied—its influence, power and appeal in the West is enormous. The most popular and famous element of hip hop—rap—has become widely exploited and enjoys increasing interest. Though the obvious is being pointed out, Hobbes is quite relevant in this (now) popular culture known as hip hop, specifically in terms of his social contract theory. In a (primarily) Hobbesian social contract view, much of the culture can be explained as well as its misrepresentations. Hip hop (in particular the rap element)1 is a social contract (of types) and in that respect, is very Hobbesian in nature. Furthermore, the situation of hip hop today is amounting to a digression from the original social contract formulated at its birth to a (relative) state of nature.

First and foremost, a bit of hip hop history (in a nutshell) is in order. Hip hop was born on the streets of The Bronx (New York), borrowing from various music genres such as soul, funk, jazz, and disco.2 The term hip hop originates in different places depending on who one asks, but a general consensus can be found that the term was popularized by the first ‘big hip hop song,’ “Rapper’s Delight” by the Sugarhill Gang.3 Hip hop, to the average outsider, has four elements: bboying (breakdancing), emceeing or MC-ing (rapping), graffing (graffiti), and DJ-ing. If any insider to the culture is asked, it would have a fifth element of knowledge (of which none of the other elements would be possible4). In 1973, one of the fathers of hip hop (if not, the father of hip hop) Afrika Bambaataa, an ex-gang member and black community leader, founded what came to be known as The Zulu Nation. The purpose of this organization was to stop street violence and give inner-city youth a way of settling conflict in a peaceful manner (namely, through one of the elements of hip hop5)6. As Bambaataa puts it, “I had them to battle against each other in a nonviolent way, like rapper against rapper rather than knife against knife.”7 Indeed, Bambaataa is said to have first used hip hop in its contemporary and ‘true’ usage (to refer to the street subculture forming and its defining elements). 8

In the time of its origins, an emcee or MC (‘microphone controller’ or ‘master of ceremonies’) would encourage the crowd to dance, respond to him (or her) or pay tribute to the DJ.9 What is commonly known today as rap is often gangster rap, actually a branch of rap rather than an all-encompassing term. This type of rap is characterized by guns, women, lavish spending, drugs and violence, tracing its roots back to the cultural cross fertilization of (the original) rap music and Los Angeles street gangs.10 Gangster rap is actually intricately involved in the current hip hop culture split most popularly characterized (though not always correctly) by the underground versus the mainstream. It is in this split that social contract theory can receive much of its relevance [which will be explained later].

As for social contract theory in general, it can be characterized by (more or less) four ideas (sometimes coinciding, as in the case of Hobbes): a state of nature, a breakdown, a social contract and finally, a civil society. To explain it broadly, people in the state of nature come together to form covenants to safeguard themselves or provide some sense of justice in the state of the breakdown. These covenants are agreed upon by at least a majority of the community (to some theorists, unanimously) and a civil society is born. To enforce the adherence to the social contract or the paramount covenant(s), some sort of governing or sovereign power (either ideal or corporeal) is there to enforce it. Hobbes famously referred to this as the Leviathan.11

Hobbes’ specific social contract theory, explained broadly, is as follows. The state of nature for Hobbes is one of constant warfare of individuals against individuals.12 This state of nature also happens to be the breakdown in a Hobbesian framework. People come together and lay down their right to do anything they want in exchange for the right not to be harmed by another.13 This is the driving idea behind Hobbes’ social contract. A society then starts to form and a leviathan—a construct manifesting into (as discussed by Hobbes) a sovereign (best14), an aristocracy or a democracy—is put in (or takes for himself15) charge of the society thus legitimizing it.16 The social contract exists, for Hobbes, so long as the leviathan can protect the society. 17

Now before hip hop is analyzed in the context of Hobbes’ social contract theory, a cardinal idea must be stated explicitly and kept in mind during the rest of the discussion: hip hop is a way of life. It is a style, it is an art, it is way of dressing, acting, and thinking. It is a culture and society within a society. It can be described as running through the veins of every true bboy, emcee, DJ or writer18 out there19. If hip hop is understood in this way, the full fruits of a (predominately Hobbesian) social contract analysis can be shown, just as if a social contract analysis was done on a religion (e.g. Buddhism and how it is commonly described—in the West at least—as ‘a way of life’). Though direct social contract ideas, such as a total state of nature, can never be drawn with such a subculture (due to the fact that it is born from a pre-existing society), many striking parallels can still be drawn with the allowance of a sub-social-contract analysis. That is to say that the proceeding hip hop analysis will have to be in the contexts of a social contract within a social contract (allowing, for argument sake, that such a social contract exists within the greater society).

To begin the analysis, the (relative) ‘state of nature’ must be examined. The pre-hip-hop state of nature is mostly Hobbesian, but also Lockean in manifestation. It is Hobbesian in the sense that it was (in the beginning) characterised by a type of warfare between entities, but it is Lockean in the sense that these entities happened to be between groups of individuals (this is in contrast Hobbes’ idea of strictly individuals against individuals). If the allowance of ‘entities against entities’ is made in the place of ‘individuals against individuals,’ the subsequent social contract of hip hop can be followed more true to Hobbes. These ‘groups of individuals’ took the forms of gangs and (neighbour-)hoods. And, in true Hobbes fashion20 , rivalries were often motivated by competition (of illegal drug clientele for example), protection, or reputation.

The ‘breakdown,’ reflecting Hobbes, is the same as the state of nature. It is not characterized by the scarcity of land (as is in a Lockean framework) because of the relatively static boundaries between hoods and the fact that the gangs representing the corresponding hoods did not inhabit them for a long enough time for problems such as population overgrowth to occur. Rather, the situation was always in state of being threatened and this constant threat, upon escalation, gave way to a need bring peace among hoods. This ensuing need for peace paved the way for a symbolic expression of settling differences to occur. It paved the way for hip hop.

The social contract of hip hop was a means to stop the constant ‘warfare’ on the streets. As old school breakdancer Abbey comments in retrospect; “Before it was all about rivalries, like Latino [hoods] against Black [hoods]. Afrika Bambaataa came in and said that we can resolve our differences by breakdancing and not fighting.”21 Or as Nancy Macdonald, author of The Graffiti Subculture puts it (when talking about graffiti), “There are no injuries, no broken bones, no scares, no casualties. . .This is the beauty of the whole process. But it is also the point.”22 This is not specific to breakdancing and graffiti, but pervasive in all elements of hip hop (also note the Bambaataa quotation earlier). In the light of context hip hop was born in to, its competitive nature can be understood. “Competition, of course is the very essence of every aspect of hip-hop culture. . .what makes it real is the battle,” 23 says Kid Freeze, breakdancing pioneer. Hip hop was the new expression, and its weapons were the microphone, the turntable, the spray paint can and dancing.

This social contract formed a new (sub-)society; a culture24 . Though it has been said that: “In hip hop, everything is contestable and there are no sacred cows,”25 general (but relevant) characteristics of the culture can be deduced. Paramount to hip hop is respect—for yourself, for the culture, for your roots. Complementary to respect is the notion of ‘staying true’ or ‘keeping it real’ (to the same aspects that are being respected). Following, hip hop is about expression of who you really are. To ensure the preservation of the culture, ‘passing the knowledge (on)’ is also a key part. These ideas form the substance of hip hop culture, and it is in these that the contemporary schism traces its roots. Adhering to these ideas (and as is implicit, exercising energy into one of the elements of hip hop) would make one a citizen of the hip hop society (relatively speaking).

Now, the tricky part is when the idea of an ‘enforcer’ or leviathan of this ‘society’ is examined. Surely, there is no ‘government of hip hop’ or no ‘hip hop police’ to come take you away when the ‘laws of hip hop’ are broken. There is no ‘King of hip hop’ (per se) that actively protects the hip hop artists. This problem of the apparent lack of a leviathan in hip hop can be solved in two ways. The first way is to say that there simply is no hip hop leviathan. That is to say, there is no consequence or punishment for not adhering to the substance of the culture. The second way is to radically transform the idea of a leviathan to fit the context of hip hop culture. In this case, the leviathan of hip hop is yourself. You regulate your adherence to the culture. If you break one of the covenants of hip hop, there is no formal legal procedure for exile, you are just simply not a part of it anymore. Given, the (seemingly intended) pervasive negative connotations may be lost in this leviathan concept, but necessarily so. Because of the relative plasticity of leviathan as a concept26 , the latter interpretation shall be taken. In this way, the social contract of hip hop is foundationally Hobbesian, but also transformative of the theory itself.

What follows is that the ‘society of hip hop’ exists only to those who are voluntarily a part of it. The society exists in the individuals and whoever wants to adhere is a part. Breaking of the covenants may appear to affect hip hop as a whole but it will always exist to those who live it. As so succinctly put by rap artist K-Os in Emcee Murdah, “hip hop’s not dead, it’s really the mind of the emcee.”27 In a Machiavellian interpretation (as a side-note), hip hop is regulated by the lowest form of authority, namely love. It is for the love of hip hop that one stays a part of it (originally at least). It should be mentioned that earlier (in the history of hip hop), it can be said that fear was a part of keeping people ‘true to the culture’ (manifesting in fear of disrespect from others), but that fear has virtually vanished as a consequence or holds onto a very thin thread of ‘fearing to disrespect yourself’ (in light of new economic incentives [explained later]). This leads to the contemporary situation by which examining will give further weight to the social contract theory of hip hop.

Hip hop today had divided into two (very broad) categories (in which caveats do exist): underground and mainstream hip hop. Mainstream hip hop is associated with money, ‘pimps and hoes’, drugs, sexual promiscuity and some ideal world that is very Epicurean in nature, distinctly taking the attitude of “I just don’t give a ****.” This form of hip hop (sometimes dubbed ‘hip pop’ because of its association with popular culture) tends to be what is played for the general public (hence the ‘mainstream’). Underground hip hop is associated with the original substance of hip hop, what some would consider true hip hop. From this idea is spawned phrases like “hip hop lives in the underground.” The general attitude of the ‘underground hip hop artist’ can be summed up by One Man Army of (the former rap group) Binary Star in Reality Check:
“It’s not all about economy/ So the fact that all these wack emcees are making G.’s don’t bother me/ Honestly, my number one policy is quality/ Never sell my soul is my philosophy.”28
This is not to say that an underground hip hop artist can never become rich and famous or that every mainstream hip hop artist is not true to the culture, but this tends to be the case the majority of the time (the reasons for which is a different subject).

In rapping, the artists are mainly distinguished by rapping about what is true to themselves versus rapping about an ideal life and forgetting about their roots. Some would say that this is the difference between an emcee and a rapper. 29 There are similar occurrences in the other elements of hip hop also. 30

Now that the required background information has been given, it shall be shown that (generally) mainstream hip hop does not constitute a society under a social contract framework whereas underground hip hop (still) does. To prove this, the contexts in which hip hop originated must be remembered.
The original purpose of hip hop was to end physical violence. Each element of hip hop fits in with the idea of hip hop so well by the fact that it provides non-physically violent means to settle differences (what is dubbed as ‘beef’). Today’s situation is increasingly moving away from this premise. Instead of merely settling ‘beef’ in a song, hip hop artists are increasingly using violent means to achieve their ends. This means of ‘settling beef’ is most infamously shown through the case of the rappers Biggie Smalls and Tupac Shakur (of which is notoriously rumored that people representing each party murdered the other respective rapper). From this paradigm followed other notorious assaults on such artists like Prodigy (of Mobb Deep), Ja Rule and 50 Cent. 31 This in very much in contrast to the premise of hip hop: ending violence.

To Hobbes, this would be enough evidence to say that the social contract becomes void. In the words of Hobbes: “The obligation of subjects to the sovereign, is understood to last as long, and no longer, than the power lasteth, by which he is able to protect them.” 32 “Whatesoever you require that others should do to you, that do ye to them”33 is no longer guaranteed. Given the special nature of hip hop’s social contract however, this does not amount to a total destruction of the leviathan (as the leviathan exists independently in each individual upon their voluntary participation in the culture) or the social contract. Those who choose the road of violence disconnect themselves from social contract of hip hop. The social contract of hip hop still exists however, to those who wish to adhere to it.

Furthermore, one can be dissociated with ‘the hip hop society’ (characterized by its social contract) by not following the covenants that are intricately connected to the end of nonviolence. This is not necessarily unparallel to Hobbes who did not specify violence (breaking of the Golden Rule) as the only means for exile from a given society. In the beginning, the aim of hip hop was respect. In underground hip hop, this tradition remains. This precipitates a nonviolent environment where competition is governed by talent, authenticity and character. For mainstream rap today, the aim is money. There are a myriad of different ways to obtain money, and a popular route is selling (yourself) out—not staying true to the (hip hop) culture by just playing into popular culture. Respect, on the other hand, can only be obtained through the very things it precipitates, namely authenticity (and its expression) and the mutual respect of others. Though competition pervades the essence of hip hop, the end result has to be one of respect and love. One can be shamed, embarrassed, made fun of or humiliated, but respect after-the-fact is always a necessary result for the true hip hop artist. As Abbey bluntlyputs it, “you get burned but you learn from your burn.”34 The true hip hop artist doesn’t rap to make money, the true hip hop artist raps to rap. In a personal and exclusive discussion with Senim Silla (formerly) of Binary Star and a true hip hop artist, he stated “I’m making music, soul music, without concern for money.”

So, what one is left with is a hip hop culture that respects its original covenants and remains nonviolent and a hip hop culture that doesn’t follow them—one that ‘doesn’t stay true to its roots.’ As graffiti artist Skore, when talking about graffiti, comments: “As style developed on the street, for the street, by the street, graffiti. . .loses its essence an whole point when its on an enclosed canvas.” Hip hop loses its whole essence when it is no longer for you, but for someone else—for popular culture. Manifested by the underground versus the mainstream in the rap game, this crisis characterized by loss of substance is becoming ubiquitous to hip hop.

In summary, the art—the culture—in this case, the society—of hip hop very much resembles Thomas Hobbes’ social contract theory and today’s situation shows the increasing digression from the original society back into the (pre-hip-hop) state of nature. Indeed, hip hop will always be alive in the underground but these artists are representing a dying society (in terms of sheer numbers) that may never be heard by the public. As Senim Silla puts it in track Honest Expression:
“Everytime you listen to the radio/ All you hear is nonsense—they never play the bomb **** / Everything that glitters ain’t gold/ And every gold record don’t glitter that’s fo’ damn sho’. ” 35
This tension will always exists, not just in the rapping aspect but everywhere in hip hop, so long as the people who play into popular culture continue to turn their back on the original covenants of hip hop. This essentially boils down to ‘what they don’t touch remains ours.’ 36 As notorious graffiti artist Drax once told Graphotism Magazine:
“What if we gain acceptance from these ‘powers,’ from the ‘main in the street,’ then what will happen? They will turn it, like everything else good, into a sick charade. . .and then what will have left? Nothing. . .I’m not saying there isn’t a place for commercial success in our scene, of course there is, for those who deserve it. But it can only really be. . . a part of it, not where the scene is heading. This isn’t the stock market and the time will never be right to ‘sell out’ because without roots this tree [of hip hop] will die.” 37

True hip hop artists do live in (the society of)hip hop—that is true, but it is really (the society of) hip hop that live in the true hip hop artist. Hip hop lives in the heart, mind and soul and in that way will always exist.

------------------------------------

1 Further usages of ‘hip hop’ when dealing in the contexts of social contract theory will imply the rap element.
2 Eileen Southern, The Music of Black Americans: A History, 3rd ed. (1997) 598.
3 Janice Rahn, Painting w/o Permission: Hip-Hop Graffiti Subculture (2002) 2.
4 Tane Langton, “Interviews: Lucky Strike,” How To Breakdance (film:2003).
5 Let it be said that from henceforth when referring to elements (of hip hop), it shall mean the standard four elements of breakdancing, rapping, DJ-ing and graffing (i.e. excluding knowledge).
6 Eileen Southern, The Music of Black Americans: A History, 3rd ed. (1997) 598-599.
7 Ibid., 599.
8 Ibid.
9 Janice Rahn Painting w/o Permission: Hip-Hop Graffiti Subculture (2002) 2-3.
10 Vincent Sacco, sociology 122X lecture, September 20, 2004.
11 Though the specifications of such a Leviathan are not agreed upon by all social contract theorists, the idea of a sovereign or governing power is an aspect of every social contract theory.
12 Thomas Hobbes, “Thomas Hobbes: Leviathan,” Introduction to Contemporary Civilization in the West: v. I (1960) 965.
13 Ibid., 968.
14 Ibid., 985-986.
15 Ibid., 993.
16 Ibid., 979.
17 Ibid., 992.
18 Graffiti artist.
19 The entire preceding section has been personally learned and understood from being immersed in hip hop culture for the past few years. Though sometimes explicitly stated by figureheads of the culture, the idea of ‘hip hop as a way of life’ is more likened to a tacit sort of knowledge gained from the embracing of the culture itself. As aspects of hip hop originate in African tribal culture and the passing of knowledge through spoken word (as opposed to writing), it is sometimes hard to attribute certain key concepts to a specific book, interview or type of codified document.
20 Thomas Hobbes, “Thomas Hobbes: Leviathan,” Introduction to Contemporary Civilization in the West: v. I (1960) 964.
21 Tane Langton, “Interviews: Abbey,” How To Breakdance (film:2003).
22 Nancy Macdonald, The Graffiti Subculture (2001) 214.
23 Janice Rahn Painting w/o Permission: Hip-Hop Graffiti Subculture (2002) 4.
24 Also, note the organizations name, the Zulu Nation to draw a parallel with a ‘society.’
25 Ibid., 138.
26 The concept (without reference to specifics) is a part of later theorists such as Locke, Rousseau and Kant.
27 K-Os, “Emcee Murdah,” Joyful Rebellion (CD: 2004).
28 Binary Star, “Reality Check,” Masters of The Universe (CD: 2000).
29 This distinction, due to its controversial are relatively unpopular usage, will be negated in this essay.
30 Eg. A ‘bboy’ vs. a ‘breakdancer’, a ‘writer’ vs. a ‘graffiti artist,’ etc.
31 Beef II (film: 2004).
32 Thomas Hobbes, “Thomas Hobbes: Leviathan,” Introduction to Contemporary Civilization in the West: v. I (1960) 992.
33 Ibid., 968.
34 Tane Langton, “Interviews: Abbey,” How To Breakdance (film:2003).
35 Binary Star, “Honest Expression,” Masters of The Universe (CD: 2000).
36 Nancy Macdonald, The Graffiti Subculture (2001) 174.
37 Ibid., italics added.

------------------------------------

Bibliography

1. Binary Star (Artist). Masters of the Universe [CD]. Los Angeles: Subterraneous Records, 2000.

2. Blah., Joseph L., et al. Introduction to Contemporary Civilization in the West: v. I. New York: Columbia University Press, 1960.

3. Boyd, Todd. Young, Black, Rich and Famous. USA: Doubleday, 2003.

4. K-Os (Artist). Joyful Rebellion [CD]. Toronto: Astralwerks Records, 2004.

5. Langton, Tane (Director). How to Breakdance [film]. New York: [url]www.breakdance.com[/url] LLC, 2003.

6. Lemos, Ramon M. Hobbes and Locke: Power and Consent. USA: University of Georgia Press, 1978.

7. Macdonald, Nancy. The Graffiti Subculture. New York: Palgrave, 2001.

8. Medina, Vincente. Social Contract Theories. Maryland: Rowman and Littlefield Publishers, Inc., 1990.

9. Rahn, Janice. Painting Without Permission: Hip-Hop Graffiti Subculture. Connecticut: Bergin and Garvey, 2002.

10. Southern, Eileen. The Music of Black Americans: A History, 3rd ed. London: W. W. Norton and Company, Inc., 1997.

11. Toop, David. The Rap Attack: African Jive to New York Hip Hop. London: Pluto Press, 1984.