It, not me! Just figured I'd showcase this... well, Hunt figured I should showcase this, and I am! Roight... if any of you have been to my EC in the past 5 months you've probably seen it, but for the rest of you: this is a vessel from my upcomming game. Comments? Questions? Threats on my life? Marriage proposals? Anything?


The spikes and blade ridges are used to slice up against incoming attackers hulls. It's got a few cannon banks on it too. Still not sure what the colour scheme's gonna be, probably a dark grey. Any suggestions on this too?

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Clarinetists, unite!

-writer and producer of The Dark Revival
(until I come up with a real name for it)

You should make it green- or brownish, with the horns bone-coloured. That way it'll like it's somekind of biotechnologic vessel, like it's an spaceship made out of organismic stuff. that'd be cool.
Nice moddel!

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<phantom> You're always going to be aloser if you attempt to aspire to massassi standards.
<phantom> They're a bunch of socially inadequate <beep> whores who have little or no lives.

Mmmm...orgasmic spaceship.

It looks pretty cool, though I think you should make fewer, but wider horns. And curve them forward a bit. It'll look more menacing.

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New Half-Life 2 Screenshots! (Updated Daily)

I can see a couple serious problems:

The "horns" are too short. Any enemy that gets THAT close is going whack huge chunks off her hull. This is an especially serious concern when you look at the spikes around the conning tower.

Further, large ships are RARELY going to get THAT close to each other in a fight anyway, and the space they occupy would be more effectively used for more cannon.

If you want to make a ship that can attack through physical contact I'd develop some sort of ram bow instead because instead of relying on scraping it puts some kinetic energy into the impact. However in that case it'd have to be a BIG ship, not only so it's throwing a lot more mass into the attack, but because it'd take a large ship to have a hope of surviving a collision at the high velocities needed for a ram to work.

It's a good model and an interesting idea, but very impractical.

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
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I can see some of the spikes being a little short, but you can't say it's impractical. I do believe GR's game is not SW based, as that would be illegal. You have no authority to say what is and isn't practical for something you know nothing about.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

I like them.

One way to explain the spikes is simply that the race that designed the ships put them in for decoration. After all, we decorate our rooms with tons of impractical stuff.

[Edit: nm, I didn't read Ramos' post closely enough. Depending on the SIZE of the ship, which you can't accurately guess by those screenies alone, the spikes could be big or small. They still would be effective either way.]

Good stuff there GeneralRamos.

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I finally got around to updating my sig... *grumble*...

[This message has been edited by The_Mega_ZZTer (edited July 07, 2003).]

I'd have to agree with Emon. Besides, the spikes serve an aesthetic purpose. THEY'RE PRETTY. MWAHAHAHAHAHA.


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The Forge - SuperS51's Model Portfolio

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."

Emon: It has absolutely nothing to do with whether it's Star Wars or not so don't give me any "authority" dren. Warship design is warship design pure and simple. Doesn't matter a **** if it's wet-navy or space-navy, Star Trek or Star Wars.

1. Those spikes are so short compared to the rest of the hull that any target that gets THAT close poses a risk of colliding with and causing serious damage to the ship's superstructure. Historically, ship-mounted rams extend out FAR from the vessel's hull. Ram bows are like an inverted clipper bow, the ram slopes out FAR in front (and is typically below the waterline in wet-navy ships).

A spike or battering-ram works fine for a wooden hull which splinters and breaks on impact, but metal is a lot more durable. A hole isn't going to compromise the integrity of the hull. You'd need something more like a meat cleaver than a fork.

2. Any warship that's like a balloon--the slightest prick and she pops--is effectively useless as a warship because even minor damage could screw the pooch. While the amount of damage they can sustain will vary on the type of ship it would take more than a couple scratches for a collision to cause significant damage. Thus, if you want a ship that can damage another through physical contact you'd be better off fixing her with a ram and send her flying into another ship instead of just waiting for them to brush your ship. Kinetic energy means force, and the more force something strikes with the more damage it will cause.

Not only that, but a giant guided missile is a lot harder to dodge. Anyone who's earned command of a combat warship would be smart enough to just keep clear of the giant space porcupine and hammer her from a distance. Which brings us to...

3. I count three major turrets on that ship, all dorsal. From the screens provided the blades on the ventral surface would seem to prevent any large cannon underneath (remember space combat is 3-dimensional, there's nothing preventing an attack from below). Those spikes take up space that could be used for more guns. Because of frivolous armament that may not even be used this vessel would be grossly out-gunned by any other combatant of similar size and mass. She'd be a pile of molten slag before she could get close enough for those spines to work.

Mega_ZZ: Warships are built for fighting. Every inch of space is carefully designed to get the full possible combat potential from the ship. You just don't have room for decorations and tons of impractical stuff.

It's his model, and he can listen to or ignore my opinion if he wants but I've got the right to have it and say it because it's my frelling opinion. Don't BS and flame me about authority or what I know or don't know.

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
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I still maintain it's fine for them to be decorative.

To be honest, I'm not sure what to think of it.

It's interesting to say the least.

Saxman, and I'm sure all science fiction has been explained to the smallest detail. Its FICTION, a.k.a not real! I'm sure warship design will change in the next 1,000 years when we eventually will be fighting in space! I don't think anyone here knows anything about designing space craft and sending them into battle.

Anyways, I think it looks cool. Although the spikes may be a bit short and may just be their for decoration, it's still pretty cool, and an excellent model.

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Moral to the Story: Don't Mess

I guess I should have explained the vessel a bit better when posting, but I wasn't at my own house and didn't want to take too long in my post. Although the nature of the species might allow me to make the ships organic, I don't think it really fits into the nature of the species. They're heavilly industrial.

Now adressing the spikes and turrets and size...:

I should have elaborated more on teh roles of the spines. They aren't expected to simply go an rip the hull with them, it's not strong enough to break it. Infact, there's a breakaway mechanism that snaps the base of the spike when it's lodged. The spines, however, are tipped with very large warheads, which, once pierced into the hull, devastate the inside of the vessel. It's useful for getting past the energy shields in my universe. Of course the spikes are strong enoguh that they can pierce through the physical armor plating too, made out of a hard metal that is rare on the AGA controlled worlds, but relatively common in teh Karloton system (one of the several reasons for the AGA's economic collapse at the beginning of the civil war).

The entire prupose of this vessel in combat is to destroy medium to large starships, which are bulkier and often less maneuverable. The cuttr is a small cruiser, probably, in relation to a corvette. It's large number of engines give it great speed and they positioning helps its agility well. It basically just skims its lower hull against the hulls of ships to gash at it, usually in critical areas such as the bridge, once shields have been reduced in teh area. The spines are a secondary device, used mostly in damaging smaller cruisers. The small spikes near teh bridge are basically there to help discourage assault transports and cruisers from getting too close, because as I said, they are explosive, and can be used to damage small vessels in a pinch, where a spike that size would be relatively useless at such a function.

As for them being too short, I might lengthen them a bit, the ones in teh front I mean,... that was a good point on those.

Turrets: as was stated, this is mustly used in melee attacks that follow up larger vessels attacks, greatly quickening the destruction of teh enemy hull and/or rendering the enemy vessel less able to effectively fight *I.E. decimate the hangar bay with the blades and explosive spines [which, by the way, are replaced after battle at yards or larger cruisers quite easilly]. Nevertheless, it does have turrets on all sides, though the shots don't show the bottom ones too well, only the dorsal. There are two at the rear of the bottom, protecting the engine area, though I intend on putting two on the front bottom, just in front of the blades (which are lower on teh hull, so the turrets won't get scraped with a competent crew). This should allow the vessel to have pretty good coverage, with only a few blind spots. The speed and agility of the vessel (relative to its class) though, makes this a minor detail. Although it cannot really hold a fighter complement of its own (it only has a tiny cargo hangar), it is usually deployed with squadrons if used in a recon or intercept mission, or uses the Unity Heavy Cruisers' compliments in large battlegroups.

Oh: an at this point in the storyline, the AGA (your team) is rather ill equipped when it comes to raw materials and factories. The AGA was ravaged when they split appart from the democratic republic [starting teh civil war], because a very large percentage of the metal ores and other materials were located within the Karloton system (Unity homeworlds) and their satelites/colonies. Likewise, many of teh shipyards were in Unity Space. This leaves most of the AGA Starships well undergunned. Just thought I'd point this out. The AGA does have a few cruisers with turret numbers liek an ISD, but there are only dozens of them. The armament is made up mostly of light surface cannons, which are too small to bother sticking on the model. The turrets seen are the Heavy turrets, which would be used for capital to capital firing.
I thank the Saxman for his post, it made me realize I didn't explain things as I should, and I'm definately going to increase teh spike length on the primary spikes now. I hope I addressed everything as best as I can.

Though EMon's point is kinda valid: you have no idea what a standard vessel in my universe has for firepower, so what's too say it can't hold up against a target it's going to ram But, anyhow, i already just covered that. As I shouldcase more, you'll get a feel for the rest of the ships. Phew, long post

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Clarinetists, unite!

-writer and producer of The Dark Revival
(until I come up with a real name for it)

I know what sort of firepower your ships are capable of... and are you ever going to model some of the designs we tinkered with?

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Look up my nose and see your future.

Saxman, now, I really tried not to say it this time, but...

WHO THE HELL CARES?!

If he likes it the way it is, then he should leave it the way it is.

Usually I don't go for the "LOL U ned 2 git otu mor!" route, since to some extent we're all nerds, but dear Lord, get out more. You post on every thread that remotely involves ship models and whine about how inaccurate they are. And then get angry when people tell you to shut up. Have you NOT gotten that maybe, just maybe, no one cares if everything is exact to 'realistic' technical specifications?

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Dark, Darker, Darko

General: So basically those spikes are sort of a cross between a honey bee stinger and a torpedo? In that case you might consider allowing them to be fired at and guided to the target from long range rather than rely on contact to anchor it. That way the ship's farther from the target when the spine blows, limiting the risk of damage to the parent craft from the blast. Charges shaped to blast AWAY from the impact site could do the same, but debris impacts can still give you a headache. Or maybe a timed detonator to give the parent craft time to vamouse one the explosive is attached (a'la early submarine "torpedoes." Good model for that is the CSS Hunley's sinking of the Housitanic during the Civil War. Without your parent craft being sunk by enemy musket fire afterwards).

Darko: I don't give a flying frell if no one cares. I've been around game communities like this for almost eight years now and I've probably critiqued more starship designs than you've ever thought of. The SciTech angle is my bread and butter, so if there's a reality check to be made on anything then for the sake of suspension of disbelief I'm **** well going to make it whether my comments are appreciated by THE PEANUT GALLERY or not.

You didn't make it, so if you don't like what I have to say about it you can sit on one of those spikes and rotate.

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
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[This message has been edited by The Saxman (edited July 07, 2003).]

Yeah, I meant it but didn't say it, they aren't instant impact. They are driven as deep into the hull as possible and then the craft plows out of there, the charges get deep inside this way - in those hard to reach spots. Like Mouthwash


Yes Blood Asp One of teh designs is in the preliminary building stage, but I wanted to touch up teh design drawing again before working on it. This was just before my 4 month hiatus.... it's on my to-do list Wanna get these weapons done first though, then perhaps showcase a few...
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Clarinetists, unite!

-writer and producer of The Dark Revival
(until I come up with a real name for it)

[This message has been edited by GeneralRamos (edited July 07, 2003).]

Good Job.

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"It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity."

-Albert Einstein

GR... you really seem to know your ship [/badjoke]

but... nice model...

and saxman... while your comments sometimes have some useful suggestions you do seem like an *** with a "know it all" attitude... so please try calming down... less caffiene maybe

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Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway.

...your life makes me sad.

I'm not exactly sure if you were trying to shame me by telling me that you focus way too much energy on gaming communities and ficticious starships, but bravo if you were. That's easily the saddest brag-attempt I've ever seen. Love the FarScape slang and Howdy-Doody insults too...

And will you shut up about this "I HAVE MY RIGHTS!" stuff? Yes, ok, you have the right to ramble on obnoxiously about imaginary starships when many people have made it known that your input is not appreciated. And I have the right to point this out. If you don't care what anyone thinks, then why ramble on about laser-gun placement in the first place? Just to hear yourself talk and pat yourself on the back for having a vast store of knowledge on an ultimately useless subject?

I enjoy scifi because of those last two letters, the ones that stand for FICTION. I like scifi because it's NOT REALISTIC. If I wanted realistic war, I'd watch the bloody news.

General: I apologize sincerely for bringing this into your thread. But this guy has been doing this EVERYWHERE around here and it's been driving several people crazy.

Meanwhile, I think the ship is pretty cool. The little front portion there looks kinda weird though...like it was glommed on. I also like the concept. I think a dark grey with red light-accents would be cool for the color scheme.

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Dark, Darker, Darko

Saxman, I didn't know you had such incredible knowledge of starships. Were you an engineer before you came back in time to blast us with your knowledge?

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Maybe you've been reading different threads than me Darko, but the only people who've REALLY been *****in' about the way I critique models are the ones who didn't BUILD them. Oh, you're also forgetting the important FIRST part of that whole "SciFi" thing, and that's the SCIENCE part. Unless you're using the PsiFi Channel's definition, that means that SCIENCE is the central aspect of the FICTION.

Emon: There's a LOT you can learn just by looking at the way real things are put together. You don't need to take physics and engineering to figure out there's only so many ways something can really work. The requirements of a warship don't change just because you stick it in vacuum.

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
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I think its practical, even if it is fiction.

If this baby is fast, it might get through a bigger to a ship before a ship puts up its shield, then it could cause major devestation.

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"Bantha's are filthy animals.......I don't eat filthy animals."

"Laugh it up Fuzzball!"
-Han Solo

I fail to see how that prevents an exotic design such as this from working. As acknowledged, some of the spikes are too short, which is a modeling issue. There's a lot we don't know about the universe, which means there are a lot of things which we cannot be certain will work or not.

And you're right about science being the central aspect of the fiction, but it doesn't prevent this from being practical. The science: large spikes that can tear through other ships, more useful than ramming because it can slice or pierce instead of bashing, causing potential damage to the original ship. Perhaps some kind of shock absorbtion so they don't tear themselves off the ship. The fiction: Said spikes made exotic or unknown materials harder than the other ships that prevent them from tearing themselves.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Can't we all just play nice?

Out pure curiousity Saxman, have you ever designed a ship yourself?

Don't forget, you're the one who asked...

I've designed numerous ships for X-wing: Alliance that I got bored with and have never gotten around to finishing. Some stuff I've toyed with but I didn't like the direction they were taking and trashed. Others I've designed and redesigned so many times nothing's left of the original.

Further I've had an idea kicking around my head for a SciFi/Epic Adventure story for some time. While working on my fantasy story I've been doing some background stuff for this, which in addition to plot and character sketches also includes warships and fighters. However to flesh out the "universe" I've taken that a step further and am in the process of building an entire combined starfleet.

Most of the ship types fill the familiar wet-navy roles, however there's some additonal mission-specific ships:

War Carrier (CVW) - Only one in existence, introduced late in the story. Concept is sort of similar to those two Japanese battleships during WWII that had their aft guns stripped off and replaced by a flight deck. Only MUCH bigger and without sacrificing so much firepower.

Fleet Carrier (CVF) - Changes from generic slang for any larger carrier to a specific class of large carriers that form the center of each fleet.

Command/Control Cruiser (CC) - Technically not a new type of ship, but a LOT more specialized than the contemporary wet-navy versions. Lightly armed but very fast cruisers with extensive commmunications, fleet action coordination and control facilities. Each fleet uses one of these.

Missile Cruisers (CM) - NOT an analog of the modern Guided Missile Cruisers. Missile cruisers could be more appropriately considered torped-armed destroyers on steroids. Fast mid-sized ships like all cruisers, instead of relying on guns for their primary method of engagement they carry a HEAVY complement of anti-shipping missiles. This gives the missile cruiser more punch allowing them to take on larger ships.

Large Cruisers (CB) - This one IS a real type of ship in a wet-navy but no navy on earth currently uses them. They're essentially a better-balanced battlecruiser (which to put it simply is a cruiser with battleship guns and cruiser armor): bigger guns than a heavy cruiser but they also increase the ARMOR as well.

Heavy Escort Cruisers (CE) - Heavier guns and armor than the traditional heavy cruiser, however their armament is primarily geared towards defense. As the name indicates, heavy escort cruisers are predominantly used to defend other vessels.

Light Escort Cruisers (CLE) - A smaller version of the CE, light escorts are an intermediate between the traditional heavy and light cruisers.

Scout Cruisers (CLS) - Lightly armed fast cruisers. They are equipped with extensive scanning equipment. Their mission is to range out ahead of the fleet, functioning as advance scouts and pickets.

Heavy Destroyers (DDH) - General purpose combatants, like all destroyers the DDH is highly versatile and fills a variety of mission roles in the fleet. Unlike smaller destroyers, these ships can carry a small complement of fighter craft.

Fire-Control Ships (FC) - Fire-control ships have one purpose: precision direction of fire from the heavy combatants against their targets.

I have rough model designs for four fighters: two variants of one type that's a jack-of-all-trades and two entirely different ones: one F-14 analog with a primary role as a long-range interceptor/fleet defense fighter, the other a carrier-borne bomber. Early paper sketches exist for another: a small, fast short-range interceptor

Some minor concept work on several of the individual classes of starships is done, with a detailed model for one class of battleship in progress. Each ship is given its own hull number (IE, BB-5293). Each ship type has a general naming scheme, predominantly based off USN naming traditions (IE, carriers after famous ships or battles, cruisers after cities with exceptions). Further, each individual CLASS has its own conventions (IE, Aramis-class heavy destroyers are named for literary heroes).

Lost track of how many individual classes I've developed, and please don't ask me to count how many ships total. Suffice to say all I've gone through is the carriers, battleships and every cruiser from CLE and larger and I've still got about 7000 ships left to name.

The things I go through to develop backstory. :-/

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
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[This message has been edited by The Saxman (edited July 08, 2003).]

Even if impractical, made longer they could be just for intimidation. I think that would be very impressive to have to look down upon while heading into battle.

There IS a such thing as mind war...

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You're thinking (no pun intended) of psychological warfare. However that's usually done through methods such as propoganda (a popular one during Desert Storm was Iraqi radio broadcasts telling the Coalition troops their government leaders were sleeping with their wives/husbands. One address even said Bart Simpson was the culprit!) and is rarely, if ever, done with major pieces of equipment like a ship (although confronting the Japanese battleship Yamato was a terrifying thought to American sailors during WWII).

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
http://www.xwaupgrade.com

SaxSoft Productions
http://saxman.xwlegacy.net

actually if you want to get specific... they do.. first of all it has to be built to not leak air or explode due to the obvious pressure differences if it's never meant to go out in space then you don't have to worry about making it completely sealed


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Eat Right, Exercise, Die Anyway.

Oh, you know that's not what I meant. :-P

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Founder X-wing Alliance Upgrade
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SaxSoft Productions
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Okay, I think it's degenerated far enough. Let's stay focused on teh topic, now shall we? I've never seen the guy before, or heard anything he's posted before because I haven't come in here in months... so I don't have any particular problem with his post. I explained what I could, and took the suggestion to extend the spikes in front. That's the end of it, please.

I appreciate commentary, so long as it's constructive, which his was for me. I do try to make my models practical and best suited for its role in warfare, but truly some goes into the total look of it too. Some of the other unity starships have spikes too, though they are not often used. It's for keeping a simialr look between them, plus making them look cooler. Let's face teh facts: this is for a game we eventually hope to put out to private [if not public] market, we want people to immediately think 'Sweet!' opun seeing it, and spread the word. eh? Eh. You gung ho people can edit it after release

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Clarinetists, unite!

-writer and producer of The Dark Revival
(until I come up with a real name for it)

wow way to much reading... all i have to say is its his imagination so shutup

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roses are red, violets are blue, I am schizophrenic, and I am too!

Is there a website for your project GR?

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Do I really need a sig?!

Not yet. We've got one partially built... but it's not complete. You can be sure I'll post a link when it is.

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Clarinetists, unite!

-writer and producer of The Dark Revival
(until I come up with a real name for it)

Sweet, Ramos.

-Hmmm... I have various ideas for ships designed to be intimidating. Any suggestions for equipment-based Psych warfare, Saxman?

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"I'm Thomas. Thomas Johnson. I'll be there if you leave the microwave open. I'll be there if you touch the third rail. I'll be there if you turn on the gas before you light the match, or lose a round of Russian roulette. I am at the end of every road. I await you past the last heartbeat. I am the Grim Reaper. I will be the death of you."
-Thomas Johnson, the Black Angel of Death

"I wonder... what might happen if I were to open this door. This simple, wood paneled door. What would happen? Would I find a closet? A bathroom? A kitchenette? Or would I be treated to a nightmarish vision of a universe beyond ours, a universe of meaningless powers and frightful entities with a need to express their sadistic urges? Or a bedroom?"
-St. George in the Hotel California

While this thread is still here, I want to suggest that, for the spikes, the base of them should be pushed into the rest of the ship a little. Like if you stick your finger into a block of soft clay, the surrounding area collapses, it doesn't just freeze in place. It would help to make it look cooler and a bit more organic.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

I'd like to mention something.

This ship looks a lot like you took a Victory Star Destroyer, chopped the end off and added a few fins and spikes. One way or the other, it reeks of Star Wars.

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I'd also like to point out that Saxman knows nothing of physics, structural engineering or materials science.

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Ouch.

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Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

My God....I agree with jon....

[This message has been edited by Morfildor (edited July 13, 2003).]