You have no idea how many editors have stop showcasing here because people don't know how to give proper critique, do you?

And no, if the editor says the comments are "invalid", then they are.

------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited August 06, 2003).]

Translation:

Do you know how many editors have stopped showcasing here because they don't know how to edit, and can't take harsh and realist critique, do you?



So, if you make a model, you are instantly god, or are protected by god and made the judge? Please explain to me how making something makes it perfect?

You really don't understand what critiscism is. It's your opinion of the model, and how it could be improved, be that opinion rude, or be the opinion cusiony soft. A critique is a critique. Sometimes the truth is harsh, and sometimes certain people are harsh. At least Emon didn't go 'OMQ THIS SUCKS YOU SUCK, WHY DO YOU BOTHER POSTING!?' He had opinions, AND ideas how to make it better. Unlike you, who accepts everything as someone's best, which I KNOW this isn't DP's best, as does he.

JediKirby

------------------
Epic: Episode I TC, Epic: Podracing Mod MP/SP, Epic: Starbattles Mod MP/SP

[This message has been edited by jEDIkIRBY (edited August 06, 2003).]

No, that "translation" is very inaccurate. Go to TACC, Jedinights.com, and GoZ Studios sometime.



No, that is not what I said. If you would of actually read my previous post and been keeping up with what's been said in this thread, you would of known that. Your free to make suggestions, but once the editor rejects it, that should be the end of it. If the editor thinks the model is perfect for what he/she has planned for it, then it is (no matter how much you might think otherwise). Pushing your suggestions, repeating your suggestions, and even degrading to the level of bashing the model because the editor doesn't share your opinion, is wrong. It's arrogant to believe that your opinion/suggestions/critique of the model is right, after it's been rejected by the editor.



Case in point, after his suggestions were rejected by the editor, that should of been the last of it because the editor obviously has a difference of opinion. As it's the editors model, he/she has the final say, reguardless as to rather you like it or not.

(FYI: Proper Critique is never rude)



You obviously don't know me very well.

------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited August 06, 2003).]

Friend14: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=persuasion



No, it's not wrong. It's called persuasion. If you said you didn't reiterate your points several times in a real life argument or debate in order to convince someone, you would be outright lying. You have done it before, we all have. No one says, "I think you should do this.", and when they say, "No.", you don't just say, "Okay, I'm wrong because you said so!" That doesn't make any sense.

It's not arrogant to believe our opinions are still correct. If I see a crappy level showcased, I suggest how to improve it, and the guy says, "It doesn't need improvement, it's the best level ever!" I am still going to think it's crappy, I'm not going to accept his opinion that it's the best. And I am certantly going to try to convince the guy in order to help him.

Oh, and you don't need to try and be the heroic defender of people's threads, they can do it on their own.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[This message has been edited by Emon (edited August 06, 2003).]

WOULD YOU GUYS JUST ****ING STOP YOUR *****ING??? I can't belive you guys... ANOTHER THREAD RUINED because of the same people.

------------------
There are two asses in Massassi... and I'm one of them.

And another thing i would like to add. If either of you (emon or friend14) ever have anything to showcase(which you VERY RARELY DO) expect the same onto it as you have done to this thread.

------------------
There are two asses in Massassi... and I'm one of them.

That's in a debate. This isn't a debate.



Yes, it is arrogance to believe that the editor has to make your changes to his/her model. And it doesn't help the editor to keep repeating yourself, it's annoying and makes you less creditable.

(And I can't think of anyone recently who has proclaimed that they're level is the best ever)

------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited August 06, 2003).]

Cazor's right, comments to e-mail. Sorry d_p.

[This message has been edited by Emon (edited August 06, 2003).]

DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND WHAT THIS THREAD IS FOR? OR DO YOU BELIVE IT HAS TURNED INTO "***** at eachother because we aren't civilized people."??? I seriously think this thread should be closed, and Descent_pilot be given another chance to showcase his work.

------------------
There are two asses in Massassi... and I'm one of them.

Arrogance is thinking that another has no right to hold a criticism against your work; arrogance is believing that another should change their criticism about your work because you disagree with it.

------------------
Capitalization
Commas
Periods
Question Marks
Apostrophes
Confusable Words
Plague Words

When have you ever seen "persuasion" work on these boards?

No, of course he/she doesn't have to. But after he/she tells you that they arn't going to change it, you should drop that point. Move on to another point if you like, but drop that one. As I said before, that's just beating a dead horse.



Sure, if they clearly say they don't understand. Else, don't do it. Is it really that hard?

------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

OMQ; i actually agree with Cazor.. starting a new thread would be a good idea here, indeed..

------------------
In case you didn't notice in the post above; my English teacher is NOT my best friend...

SHUT.UP.[edit]not directed towards gothicX[/edit]

I can't belive you people.

------------------
There are two asses in Massassi... and I'm one of them.

[This message has been edited by Cazor (edited August 06, 2003).]

No one has claimed that.



No one has claimed that, either. A person should, however, stop repeating their opinion on that disputable point of the work if the editor rejects it. That's just giving common respect to the editor to do what he/she wants to do with their work.


------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited August 06, 2003).]

Restating points and opinions isn't being disrespectful, it's an attempt to be persausive.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=persuasion
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=persuasion
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=persuasion
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=persuasion
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=persuasion
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=persuasion
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=persuasion
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=persuasion
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=persuasion
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=persuasion
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=persuasion

Incase that wasn't clear enough:

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=persuade

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[This message has been edited by Emon (edited August 06, 2003).]

i like the gun as it is, easy on the eye.

------------------
mmm, smells like something burning.

Yeah... it could use a little more detail, though. Like maybe a trigger guard thing. Nice start though!

------------------
There are two asses in Massassi... and I'm one of them.

It certainly could use some more detail.. but Emon, plz, we aren't ten year old kiddies trying to prove we're right...

------------------
In case you didn't notice in the post above; my English teacher is NOT my best friend...

Emon, Friend14: Shut Up.

------------------
Watch out for this guy => :banned:

Good idea. Sorry Friend14 and d_p.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

The irony is consistant.

------------------
Epic: Episode I TC, Epic: Podracing Mod MP/SP, Epic: Starbattles Mod MP/SP

I promised myself I wouldn't get involved, but I'm bored and have next to nothing else to do right now.

1) Emon, while he often makes good suggestions on how to improve things, doesn't bother with tact. In one way that's admirable (he doesn't dilly-dally), but many people around here are thin skinned and fail to simply shrug it off.

2) Being criticized isn't pleasant (and I'm not talking about Emon here). I know the drill: you work your *** off on something for hours, you think it looks perfect, you post it somewhere, and people (however nicely) tear it apart. What you have to realize is that, no matter how hurt you are by it, most people aren't intentionally trying to screw with you. Experienced people who try to help are simply offering suggestions, the only reason it hurts is because of your emotional involvement in your work. The sooner you get over that hump, the easier improving things becomes.

3) There really isn't anything wrong with your model. What's there is fine, what people usually complain about with this sort of model is what ISN'T there: detail. Whether you're working for JK or Unreal 2, detail makes the difference between a block with a square stuck on it and a pistol. Either through the model, the texture, or whatever additional maps (bump, normal, diffuse) you might add, detail is the key ingredient that you're missing.

I wish you luck Pilot. To everyone else getting caught up in the philosophy of criticism, take it somewhere else.


------------------
S51

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you."