lied, I'm adding this one last thing.



1) It's prerendered in 360, but it's irrelevent as even if you calculate it based off of 90, it's still impossible.

2) In most cases, the same texture is used (repetively) for 1 area. The full texture still has to be rendered and positioned correctly on each surface for it to all line up correctly.



The mips still have to be generated and rendered and applied to the correct surface. Rather or not it's terrain is irrelevent because, as you said, it works on all surfaces in the game.



I never claimed to know everything about the games. My main focus in on 3d rendering and texturing limitations.



So, why were you wondering where it came from?

------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited August 08, 2003).]

Agreed.

(And who said I always disagreed with you)



------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

Maybe you could explain this a little more. Video games render everything in real time. I must have missed the "Imaginary 3D graphics 101, by Friend14" course somewhere.


Yeah, one texture is used, that's what I just said, contrary to your original post. And there are no calculations involved in "lining up the texture" as you say. Texture coordinates are read from a file, loaded into memory, and rendered. There's no speed loss from "lining up the textures". Oh, and texture rendering is rather fast. It only becomes a problem when you lack video memory. Example, I boot up Yavin Swamp in JO with textures on very high, I get, say, 50 FPS in one part. Then I turn my textures down to "lower than Quake" setting, and it's like 53 FPS.


Uh, yeah, but I don't see how that is a problem. Mipmapping is to improve performance.


Then I suggest you study it a little more.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

okay... the third thread ive seen you two b**** in. why dont yall just make up a thread to whine and b**** at each other about whose right?

anyway it looks good for JK but repetitive as already said. keep it up
------------------
"Never look down on anybody unless you helping him up."
-Jesse Jackson

[This message has been edited by st_thomas (edited August 08, 2003).]

[This message has been edited by st_thomas (edited August 09, 2003).]

Sarcasim isn't needed.

Everything around you is prerendered, but only what is within your FOV is rendered (drawn) into a frame and sent to your monitor.



You seem to be missing it. The fact that it's only 1 textured is irrelevent. That only means that the texture memory space is only occupied by one texture. It still has to be rendered on each surface (independantly). And yes, there are calculations (non-logic, non-arithmitic, pure code to binary translation) involved with converting the coordinates to binary (as everything must be converted to).

And your example is flawed with your statement. That texture still uses the same amount of space in video memory. Only a smaller file sized version(reduced by the GPU) is used for the renderings.

More accurate is noticing the difference between, say, a Geforece 4ti with 64MB and one with 128MB.



Which, if you were to look back, was exactly my point, thank you.



No, it just means you won't see me argueing BSP, VIS, and light processes of the map compilation in JO.

------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited August 08, 2003).]

I don't even know where to start... That's just so very wrong. Prerendered refers to something rendered beforehand and then displayed, like a movie, TV, or a video clip. Video games are all real time, not prerendered.

Aside from that, I think you meant that everything around you is rendered, and only what you see is sent to your monitor. This isn't true either. I suggest you read this article, it explains frustum culling. Anything outside of the viewing frustum is completely ignored, and is never rendered. Ever. You may be confusing the actual rendering with other things such as physics, objects and AI, which are of course not ignored when you can't see them on your screen.


No, that's already done when the code is compiled. Ever wonder why opening an EXE is a big mess of crap and not some nice C++ code? And even if that was true, how would converting code to binary not envolve logic or arithmetic?


Laff. So explain to me, then, why turning down my texture detail makes things load dramatically faster? Oh, I know! Because it's not loading, it's prerendering the whole scene around you! Am I right?


You made it sound like it would be harder on the game to use them.

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

[This message has been edited by Emon (edited August 09, 2003).]

Not to detract from the "not-making-senseness" of everything else you said, but this in particular makes very little sense. What exactly do you mean? Also, can you back it up with anything, or do you just have a gigantic fact-creator, spewing forth random data from bodily orifices?

No, honestly, what do you mean about "non-logic, non-arithmitic, pure code to binary translation" calculations involved with translating coordinates to binary? Are you completely unaware that numbers on just about every computer are stored in memory in binary? Are you talking about the ASCII to integer conversion which exists in older engines which use ASCII-based file formats for data? That function certainly involves arithmetic and logic. Honestly, I have no idea what you mean.

------------------
Capitalization
Commas
Periods
Question Marks
Apostrophes
Confusable Words
Plague Words

[This message has been edited by lordvader (edited August 09, 2003).]

Shaders, non-static objects, animations, code, ect. are all done in real time.



Congradulation, you did a google search and found something that backed up your claim. Now, seeing as how that technique (as remarkable as it is) is rare, list some games that use it.



1) It ALL has to be processed and converted.

2) It does use the ALU but ONLY for converting to binary (which is basically what I said, granted I could of been a little more specific).



No, no, no. It's loading faster because it's a smaller file size (less data that needs to be converted, thus requiring less GPU time, which in turn results in higher framerates).



I did? Let see:



Subtract the parenthesis, you get:

Terrain poly reduction, reduces the number of polies. It also scales the texture applied to it, to a smaller size. To have open terrain that runs on a 1ghz system, then you must have these thing.

Granted, it could of done without the then in the last sentence after the comma, but that's not enought to deter it from it's meaning.

So, sorry, I disagree with your comprehension that I made it sound as if it made it harder on the game to use. It was a seperate paragraph, thus a seperate idea not to be confussed with that of those that preceeded it.

------------------
Try not, do; or do not.

[This message has been edited by Friend14 (edited August 09, 2003).]

So are static objects...


Oh dear lord. Please tell me, how do you know it's rare? Where's Friend14's diary on his 3D programming exploits? Seriously, do you ever research the subject? You know what uses it? Almost every 3D application created by anyone who isn't a total moron uses it. JK does, JO does, Quake does, Doom does, DF does, EVERYTHING.


See lordvader's post, I'm not going to restate what he wrote.


Wrong. The file is never changed. It's one texture size, say 1024x1024 pixels, and only some of the pixels are loaded. It can skip half the pixels with a "checkerboard" method, for lack of better term. Red pixels are loaded and black are ignored.


Seriously, where the hell do you get all this data?? It's all pure conjecture which you have created. I'd like to see you back up any of it. And please don't link me to some basic programming book like you did last time, that was total bullcrap.

Bottom line is this. You haven't done any true 3D programming, you know nothing about it. You've proven on several occasions that you know nothing about it, and even when presented with facts, you completely ignore them in favor of your own, very false facts that you pull out of your *** .

------------------
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.

Hahahaha. Wow.
Frustum culling is used in basically every game, along with backface culling. So widely used is it, that OpenGL and DirectX both have built-in functions for that exact purpose. If you want a list of games that use it, here is a very incomplete list showing only a few of the games that use it. In fact, screw the CompUSA listing, if you want a comprehensive list of 3d games using frustum culling, make a comprehensive list of 3d games. That you could claim to have such great knowledge of how games work, and then claim that frustum culling "is rare," is appalling and makes me giggle like a schoolgirl.

------------------
Capitalization
Commas
Periods
Question Marks
Apostrophes
Confusable Words
Plague Words