Yeah, so here's some shots of an old level (JK1) I just started working on again:

[screenies]

You should make maps for JKA so there are more good maps to play on [cheesy smiley]

For the UMPTEENTH time,

Jedi Knight: Jedi Outcast != JKO
Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy != JKA
Jedi Knight Arena == JKA

:p

[note how I used jEDI_kIRBY's excellent analogy]

Wait I am confused.

You know that three letters can mean more than one thing right?

In English:
Jedi Knight: Jedi Outcast IS JK:JO (or JO for short) NOT JKO
Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy IS JK:JA (or JA for short) NOT JKA
JKA stands for Jedi Knight Arena.

This level is JKA, it just so happens, for more information about this modification made for JK1 go here - http://www.massassi.net/jkarena/

Or you know, it is both, unless there is a law somewhere. I mean, it's not like no one else can have the same initials for their name that I do. DV can only mean Daft Vader, it can never mean Dolly Vooma or something.

If you get what I'm getting at.

Yes, but they are not the same initials.

The game is called Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, and can be abbreviated JK:JA or JA. JKA is not a correct abbreviation, because that would mean "Jedi Knight Academy", which is not what the game is called. It is called either Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy (JK:JA) or Jedi Academy (JA) not Jedi Knight Academy (JKA).

Initials are a way for saying something in shorthand. The Jedi part is redundant therefore you can cut it out. The word NASA stands for National Aeronautics and Space Administration, but it is not called NAASA.

Note - What I typed was really just a mistype, but now that we are discussing it... well... [Cheesy Smiley]

But "and" is a common word frequently excluded from abbreviations, just the same as "the" and "a" and "of", etc.

Jedi Knight Academy (I am using the incorrect name deliberately at the moment to make a point), Knight being the key word here, is by no means a negligible word used in common, everyday reference, nor is it a basic conjunction like "and", as you pointed out. It is in this case a noun, a proper noun to be precise, and more importantly, this is irrelevant, because it is still not the correct abbreviation.

According to LEC (another interesting acronym, standing for LucasArts Entertainment Company, even though you'd think it would be LAEC) the game is called "Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy" - check here if you don't believe me http://www.lucasarts.com/products/jediacademy/ . It is perfectly fine to shorten that to Jedi Academy, because the original name has still been maintained. Jedi Knight is the series, Jedi Academy is the specific game.

However, there is no such game called Jedi Knight Academy, and thus both that name and the initials representing it are incorrect.

According to LEC (another interesting acronym, standing for LucasArts Entertainment Company, even though you'd think it would be LAEC) the game is called "Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy".

I think that proves my point.

Shall we just agree to disagree and get back to the map?

How does it prove your point?

And as for getting back to the map, what's there to say? You people are only just going to give me a load of rubbish about how I should stop wasting my time with JK and switch to (an incorrect acronym). I decided to follow this little rabbit trail because I was simply irritated that people couldn't even comment on something for what it was without tring to control the author and make him do what they wanted, and when they did comment, didn't even use the correct acronym!

Are you telling me you wouldn't abbreviate LucasArts as LA and not just L?

I apologize, but I'm not sure if I understand.

In the past I might have abbreviated LucasArts as LA. However, I would be wrong. Technically, as a company, they are LucasArts Entertainment Company, and they have laid down that they are called LEC as shown in their readme which is to accompany new JK1 levels: http://www.massassi.net/submit/sample_readme.txt

If I understand you, calling them L is ludicrous, as that could mean just about anything. LA is better, and does actually work if you are calling them LucasArts as opposed to their full, professional title. However, comparing this to JKA, or should I say, JA is like comparing apples and oranges.

LA could be considered correct if you were referencing the company simply as LucasArts, even though LEC is the official title. However, JKA is in no way a correct abbreviation for Jedi Academy, no matter what way you twist the words. If you want to call it Jedi Academy, then it is JA. If you want to name it by both the game and the series it represents, than JK:JA. However, JKA (Jedi Knight Academy) still does not fit either of these acronyms, no matter what way you twist it.

LA still refers to LucasArts, the individual letters in this acronym correctly match up with the word that they stand for. Even though the company is still called LEC, at least the acronym LA matches up with the title of "LucasArts". JKA, however, would stand for Jedi Knight Academy.

Let's look at this from as many different angles as possible, aka, two. It could be construed as:

1) Jedi Knight: Academy, which sounds very awkward for one thing, and for a second thing, is not the correct title of the game made by LEC.

2) Jedi: Knight Academy, which makes even less sense, and once again, is not the same title given to the LEC game we have been discussing for some time now.

It is not comparing apples to oranges.

Unless you can find me an official announcement saying that It can only be written as JK:JA or JA, then I will stop argueing.

Until then, it's up to the writer to put, and as long as someone can recognize it (which you surely did, since you made a post about it). Who knows, maybe I was talking about Jedi Knight Arena, but you interpreted it as Academy, which shows that you truely did understand what I was saying. So please, feel free to show me where someone from LEC made this type of announcement. Otherwise you are trying to say that something MUST be said a certain way, instead of it being just an abbreviation. Hell, I guess we can't call it JA either, since it is not getting the entire title in.

Otherwise it is just an unofficial way to say something. And as long as it gets the point across, like it did, I don't see anything wrong with it.

Allright then.

On the official site:

Here you can see the "game"' referenced by it's full title (including both the series, and the individual installment) and by simply the installment(s) themselves, JA and JO. Never once are they referenced on the entire site as Jedi Knight Outcast or Jedi Knight Academy (see attachment):

So technically it's SW:JK:JA?

So we've both been wrong.

Until then, it's up to the writer to put, and as long as someone can recognize it (which you surely did, since you made a post about it). Who knows, maybe I was talking about Jedi Knight Arena, but you interpreted it as Academy, which shows that you truely did understand what I was saying. So please, feel free to show me where someone from LEC made this type of announcement. Otherwise you are trying to say that something MUST be said a certain way, instead of it being just an abbreviation. Hell, I guess we can't call it JA either, since it is not getting the entire title in.

Otherwise it is just an unofficial way to say something. And as long as it gets the point across, like it did, I don't see anything wrong with it.

I have many different ways to respond to what you have just said, but it is covering so much of the same ground that I will summarize.

First of all:

You should make maps for JKA so there are more good maps to play on

I only interpreted that as Jedi Academy, because I have heard you and others say the same thing over and over again, and because this is a site dedicated to a Jedi Academy clan. It still does not make the said abbreviation correct. I'm not expecting you to know that JKA *can* stand for a little known mod made for an 8 year old game, however I am expecting you to know, by simply trying to match up your acronym with the word you are trying to represent, that JKA *can not* stand for Jedi Academy or Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy.

Hell, I guess we can't call it JA either, since it is not getting the entire title in.

Now you are simply misunderstanding me. Both are the correct title, merely one is more descriptive than the other. Both reference the same thing, only one goes into more depth. Both can be used interchangably. JKA does not only stand for a game that has never existed and most likely never will, but also, as I have pointed out several times, does not in any way, shape, or form, correctly match up with the game I am describing, which for the sake of efficiency, I am not going to spell out again in this post.

Oh, and since I am fairly sure you are going to post something about SW not being needed since it is part of a series...

You said that it can be called JK:JA, but if you say that that is a correct way, then you are including a series. So the REAL way would be SW:JK:JA.

And I am still not seeing how Jedi Knight : Academy is not a correct way of saying it other than it sounding awkward. You already know that it involves jedi, note the Jedi part in Jedi Knight. I personally find the game called Jedi Knight : Jedi Academy to be redundant and not needed.

Oh, and since I am fairly sure you are going to post something about SW not being needed since it is part of a series...

Correct, although again, it is not essential.

You said that it can be called JK:JA, but if you say that that is a correct way, then you are including a series. So the REAL way would be SW:JK:JA.

Now you are just grasping at straws. I said that they can be used interchangably. I never said anything about not being able to include a series. I apologize for not clarifying, because the game, as you have poined out, can be called:

Jedi Academy
Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy
STAR WARS: Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy

But do you notice a trend? They are all correct, and yet, as you move down the list, they become more and more accurate. All three titles refer to the same game, only they refer to this game in differing levels of detail.

But once again, as I have pointed out before, JKA does not reference this game, for the aforementioned reasons.

But do you notice a trend? They are all correct, and yet, as you move down the list, they become more and more accurate. All three titles refer to the same game, only they refer to this game in differing levels of detail.

So what is different between becoming less accurate as long as the key points are still maintained? It is a game about the Jedi Knight Academy, is it not? It is about an academy of people wishing to become Jedi Knights.

And I am still not seeing how Jedi Knight : Academy is not a correct way of saying it other than it sounding awkward. You already know that it involves jedi, note the Jedi part in Jedi Knight. I personally find the game called Jedi Knight : Jedi Academy to be redundant and not needed.
You are correct, in that Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy is redundant. However, as you yourself have just pointed out Jedi Knight: Academy sounds awkward.

Secondly, and most importantly - this is beside the subject of our debate. You are currently talking about how you (I quote "personally") find the name redundant, and so I assume you are saying that you would have named the game differently (correct me if I am wrong). However the subject of the debate is not "how would I like to name the game?" but rather "how is the game named?"

So what is different between becoming less accurate as long as the key points are still maintained? It is a game about the Jedi Knight Academy, is it not? It is about an academy of people wishing to become Jedi Knights.

I assume that you are moving away from the grammatical side of this debate because you see that your current argument does not work, instead generalizing on abstract and impertinent information such as "It is about an academy of people wishing to become Jedi Knights". This makes no difference to the people at LEC, who named and published this game long before you even decided to start this debate. Again, you are looking at it from an emotional and personal perspective, rather than from a logical and corporate one.

No, the real debate is whether JKA is an accurate enough description. I think that Jedi Knight : Academy doesn't leave any doubt in anyones mind what the game is. And if you want to say that it is not a proper title, then I will expect the real proper title to be posted everytime you post, as in, SW:JK:JA. That is the only one that truely describes the game.

We've just moved back a few squares to old territory, I assume because you've run out of things to argue about.

As I have (almost) indisputably proved, JKA does not work as a title:

1) It does not match up grammatically (twist the words however you like, they don't FIT).

2) It has never been referenced as such by LEC, who named it, copyrighted it, and thus are the ultimate authority on the correct name.

I have also noticed that you are now referring to the game as Jedi Knight : Academy. This seems to me that you have become so convinced that you are right, that in order to match up your argument (JKA) with the game we have been disputing, you have actually changed the name of the game!

And once more you have just completely ignored the fact that I said the 3 aforementioend titles are all correct. You simply can't seem to get around the fact that the title you are referencing doesn't exist, and you have become fixated to the point where, as I mentioned above, YOU HAVE CHANGED THE TITLE OF THE GAME.

That'd be RJ, if you want to get technical.

You must have skimmed over the part where I said you should give me credit. REREAD MY FIRST POST.

Jedi Knight: Jedi Outcast != JKO
Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy != JKA
Jedi Knight Arena == JKA


[note how I used jEDI_kIRBY's excellent analogy]

There's no underscore in my name... who is this jedi_kirby you speak of?

.....You do realize when you reach to the end of the text box, you don't need to press Enter.

Dafty, NEVER argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience!

Does it really matter in any way? This is the only forum left where you can get constructive feedback on anything. Don't even bother with those other places. They aren't going to play your level. They can't even see past the engine. Maybe JKHub though.

Hehe, nice

Good one.

When can I play?

Sweet level dude!

lol

Originally posted by Bob: It is a game about the Jedi Knight Academy, is it not? It is about an academy of people wishing to become Jedi Knights.

A waste of space? I call it a "Convenient Black Hole of Resources and Time." But there's one gain: The possiblity of laughter.

Massassi probably is the only place I've ever showcased anything and actually improved my project because of it.

JediKirby

I know this is gonna sound random, but I'm in a sensitive mood - are you angry at me jEDIkIRBY? If so, I apologize. Give me a hug.

And know what just made me sad? I reliezed that the only people left from the 'good old days' around here are Brian, Jon, and myself. The rest of you are all newbs.

You seem to consider yourself superior to everyone

This thread got stupid as hell.

Where was this from?

JM already seems to know

And know what just made me sad? I reliezed that the only people left from the 'good old days' around here are Brian, Jon, and myself. The rest of you are all newbs.

or most pathetically of all

And why does the shifty eye smiley have a halo? :em321: See?

And know what just made me sad? I reliezed that the only people left from the 'good old days' around here are Brian, Jon, and myself. The rest of you are all newbs.