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☖ Forums → Showcase → The Colossal Colosseum...
12
The Colossal Colosseum...
2006-02-17, 12:37 AM #1
[http://www.jkhub.net/project/screens/project-198-rkFvNwUI2W.jpg]

[http://www.jkhub.net/project/screens/project-198-6ran0jQJBL.jpg]

[http://www.jkhub.net/project/screens/project-198-aKsVsoc8ZP.jpg]

[http://www.jkhub.net/project/screens/project-198-PO4v3No2TM.jpg]

[http://www.jkhub.net/project/screens/project-198-gYryS7WbiO.jpg]
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2006-02-17, 1:22 AM #2
man thats gonna rape my computer speed...

Can u work on LODing?

using the distance vector cog perhaps?
Code:
if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}
2006-02-17, 3:43 AM #3
Not much you can do; any substantial lodding is going to introduce cracks. And he can't lod the arches, because they are already low res and ugly.
Wikissassi sucks.
2006-02-17, 4:01 AM #4
He could lod the tribune, so that it's just a slant with a stair texture when viewed from the distance. And he could lod the interiour arched ceiling. You can't see that when you are not inside, so why should it be rendered? Another good idea could be a cog that sets the colosseum-things, which are in the back of the player, to geo 0. The JK engine should already do that anyway, but you never know...
"Häb Pfrässe, süsch chlepfts!" - The coolest language in the world (besides Cherokee)
2006-02-17, 7:08 AM #5
hawt.

Textures!!!!
My girlfriend paid a lot of money for that tv; I want to watch ALL OF IT. - JM
2006-02-17, 11:08 AM #6
It's very...

...big. I kinda like it! :)

I don't know much about rendering and such, but it would look cool...
"Time is an illusion. Lunchtime doubly so."
2006-02-17, 12:17 PM #7
Do those framerates say numbers all less than 20, or am I reading it wrong?
Major projects working on:
SATNRT, JK Pistol Mod, Aliens TC, Firearms

Completed
Judgement Day (HLP), My level pack
2006-02-17, 1:02 PM #8
Wow, nice cleavage.

:P
-There are easier things in life than finding a good woman, like nailing Jello to a tree, for instance

Tazz
2006-02-17, 1:05 PM #9
Originally posted by Ruthven:
man thats gonna rape my computer speed...

Can u work on LODing?

using the distance vector cog perhaps?



I would think the engine would have to support LODs natively for it to do much good. Besdies if that slows your PC down, you really need a new one. Really.
2006-02-17, 1:25 PM #10
Erm, he SHOULD make LOD's of the entire colosseum. Though, at what distance is the question. I probably wouldn't start changing to lower detail models until around where the second to last shot is. Keep in mind that Spiral plans to have other highly detailed buildings, not to mention all of the other little static objects that are typical with city streets...

Additionally, if you don't have any plans on using Translucent surfaces, you might want to consider not flaging the 3do's as "World Archi." That should prevent any portion of a 3do that might be covered by another 3do from being forced to be rendered to the screen. That would apply to the surfaces in a 3do. Try unflagging it for the Colosseum and see if you see an improvement in frame rate.

Just a thought...
"The solution is simple."
2006-02-17, 2:00 PM #11
[http://www.omnisu.com/howtocleaveanarch.jpg]
Wikissassi sucks.
2006-02-17, 2:16 PM #12
Yeah, Istven has a point. It seems the first image is what you're doing Spiral, which creates a pair of extra vertices per arch, which can quickly add up imo.

2006-02-17, 3:42 PM #13
Originally posted by Obi_Kwiet:
I would think the engine would have to support LODs natively for it to do much good. Besdies if that slows your PC down, you really need a new one. Really.

Errr...it does? Have you ever played JK? Didn't you notice that your enemies change to cardboard-puppets when you run away from them? Also, it's not just about the computer. The engine itself has some limitations that keep the framerate down.
"Häb Pfrässe, süsch chlepfts!" - The coolest language in the world (besides Cherokee)
2006-02-17, 4:17 PM #14
Quote:
Yeah, Istven has a point. It seems the first image is what you're doing Spiral, which creates a pair of extra vertices per arch, which can quickly add up imo.


It also has a huge effect on the quality of the lighting. And the AWESOME!!! way makes the texturing also AWESOME.
Wikissassi sucks.
2006-02-17, 5:46 PM #15
i don't want pointed arches, because it is not accurate, and that is not how it looks... the fact that I am not using 3do lighting makes the way that the cleaves are not matter. I may try to rethink them on my own terms, but I don't need your tutorials on how to make architecture.

as for the LOD comments, that is a very good idea.. I think I will star on that though after it is completed... (but not textured yet)

And as for the rest of rome, yes I am planning on adding the other surrounding buildings, and other things such as birds int he sky.. that is, if framerate will allow it, because as you see, it does get kinda low... (which I am hoping will clear up once I impliment some LOD 3dos...
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2006-02-17, 5:50 PM #16
Originally posted by Tazz:
Wow, nice cleavage.

:P

Heh heh...

-Spiral has boobies.
2006-02-17, 6:18 PM #17
Originally posted by Spiral:
i don't want pointed arches, because it is not accurate, and that is not how it looks... the fact that I am not using 3do lighting makes the way that the cleaves are not matter. I may try to rethink them on my own terms, but I don't need your tutorials on how to make architecture.


Actually, it does matter. You'll also see a small performace boost...and, it's just good practice in general...even if it is a pain in the ***.

Quote:
as for the LOD comments, that is a very good idea.. I think I will star on that though after it is completed... (but not textured yet)


That's ussually best. I'd also suggest that you export the colosseum as one object instead of many. It'll solve the issue you posted in the Editing Forum plus it'll be a lot easier to create LOD's for.

Quote:
And as for the rest of rome, yes I am planning on adding the other surrounding buildings, and other things such as birds int he sky.. that is, if framerate will allow it, because as you see, it does get kinda low... (which I am hoping will clear up once I impliment some LOD 3dos...


Try unchecking the "archi." flag for the 3do's...seriously.
"The solution is simple."
2006-02-17, 6:54 PM #18
Originally posted by CaptBevvil:
I'd also suggest that you export the colosseum as one object instead of many. It'll solve the issue you posted in the Editing Forum plus it'll be a lot easier to create LOD's for.


I actually tried this.. but the 3do was so large that it crashed everyprogram I tried opening it in... plus it would call for thousands and thousands of meshes.. and I don't want to spend all that time making meshes.. sorry, but it's not fun to make meshes.. espacially for hours on end...

Not to mention, texturing it would be very boring, and it would take years...
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2006-02-17, 7:30 PM #19
I would never play that crappy map.

I see default mat...
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2006-02-17, 7:44 PM #20
Where?!
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2006-02-18, 3:54 AM #21
Quote:
i don't want pointed arches, because it is not accurate, and that is not how it looks... the fact that I am not using 3do lighting makes the way that the cleaves are not matter. I may try to rethink them on my own terms, but I don't need your tutorials on how to make architecture.


They don't need to be pointed to be cleaved neatly. If you knew what you were doing, you would never have cleaved them the way you have. This disregard for good advice and refusal to clean up your mess while building is why you fail.
Wikissassi sucks.
2006-02-18, 6:46 AM #22
you are so funny.. i said I may re think them, but because I do my arches differently then you do does not mean I don't know what I am doing.
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2006-02-18, 6:59 AM #23
Sweetness, I can already imagine epic battles

Originally posted by Isuwen:
They don't need to be pointed to be cleaved neatly. If you knew what you were doing, you would never have cleaved them the way you have. This disregard for good advice and refusal to clean up your mess while building is why you fail.
Actually, the most efficient cleave arrangement in this case would be:

[http://img476.imageshack.us/img476/3417/neatcleavage3nu.jpg]

But, y'know, it's up to Spiral. And from past experience I've found that this kind of "neat cleavage" (ahaha) is at best *minutely* better as far as rendering 3do lighting goes, so in some cases it just isn't practical.
2006-02-18, 8:14 AM #24
Not sure if my opinion is worth anything, but I've always used the method that Isuwen illustrated. Not just in arches, but ALL of my level architecture. Why? Because:

•CLEANER! Cleanliness while editing not only ensures the best possible preformance, but also makes it much easier to make tweaks down the road.
•It's lower on the unwanted vertex count
•Easier to reposition archi vertices
•Lighting is always superb
•Texturing/Stitching is easier and less restricive (i.e., you can easily stitch "molding" or "doorjams" without compromising the wall's texturing)
•MUCH lower adjoin count (when using this technique on other types of archi, like a pillar)

money•bie's technique is just fine. In fact, it makes for an even lower face/vertex count. However, it doesn't leave many possibities for complex texturing.
We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of dreams...
Neurotic|♣|Mobius Grith|♠|The Atrium
2006-02-18, 8:24 AM #25
Oh, and BTW Spiral.... dynamic lights will work just fine for you... buy you can't just use one 3.0 range lights from an odd angle with that many meshes. You'd have to use a complex matrix of about 50+, with a range from 0.2 to 0.8, throughout the colosseum. I know it sounds like quite a task, but it's much easier than most of the things you're pulling off on this project.
We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of dreams...
Neurotic|♣|Mobius Grith|♠|The Atrium
2006-02-18, 1:38 PM #26
Money*bie, I actually combined the AWESOME!!! example from before with yours in Rotunda. I have the nice border; and wherever two arches are side-by-side the cleaves across the wall are like yours. Halucid, I demand you take a screenshot, while I try and find JK and reinstall it again.
Wikissassi sucks.
2006-02-18, 1:42 PM #27
[http://www.omnisu.com/howtocleaveanarch2.jpg]

There.
Wikissassi sucks.
2006-02-18, 7:48 PM #28
Originally posted by halucid:
dynamic lights will work just fine for you... buy you can't just use one 3.0
I was actually thinking the same exact thing at work today
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2006-02-18, 7:55 PM #29
Originally posted by halucid:
Oh, and BTW Spiral.... dynamic lights will work just fine for you... buy you can't just use one 3.0 range lights from an odd angle with that many meshes. You'd have to use a complex matrix of about 50+, with a range from 0.2 to 0.8, throughout the colosseum. I know it sounds like quite a task, but it's much easier than most of the things you're pulling off on this project.


Actually, he could use one light0_0.3do add the value EXTRA LIGHT and then set that value to 50. That should work pretty good for a sun. ;)

Of course, if he wanted torches inside the colosseum...
"The solution is simple."
2006-02-18, 9:01 PM #30
Originally posted by zagibu:
Errr...it does? Have you ever played JK? Didn't you notice that your enemies change to cardboard-puppets when you run away from them? Also, it's not just about the computer. The engine itself has some limitations that keep the framerate down.



I thought from the previous post that he said it didn't. Which surprised me, but I haven't played it in awhile. So... :confused:
2006-02-18, 9:06 PM #31
Originally posted by Isuwen:
[http://www.omnisu.com/howtocleaveanarch.jpg]

I call it the "Isuwen Scale Of Cleaveage"
2006-02-19, 8:21 PM #32
ok, the framerate has hit an all time low of "7"....

and it's no where close to being even finished.... is there ANY WAY i can make it to where the 3dos won't be rendered unless they are visable? I already set the 3dos not flagged as architecture, but it didn't work... I am planning on adding LOD, but I don't think that will help too much AT ALL..

Hellraiser said something about a cog that hides 3dos when they are not in view.. is this a possibility?
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2006-02-20, 2:17 AM #33
I'm not sure how smart the JK engine is. It's possible that it always renders all 3dos which are in a sector that's visible to the player. If so, cleaving up your one-sector level into lots of sectors should help.
To test it, extrude one side of your megasector. Then walk away from the architecture. If you are still in the first sector, but all the 3dos are in your back, and you still suffer from bad framerate, try walking into the new sector. If framerate suddenly pops up, it is indeed true what I mentioned above.

But I somehow doubt it's that easy.
"Häb Pfrässe, süsch chlepfts!" - The coolest language in the world (besides Cherokee)
2006-02-20, 5:41 AM #34
That's how it works in a nutshell, zag.

That should work fine. I had to do the very same thing on an older, unreleased map.... just make sure that each of your 3do segments are fully enclosed by their sectors (no overhang). Otherwise, you'll have flicker issues.... and flicker cogs would defeat the whole purpose of doing this.

As for you "rotation issue", why not just have a cog rotate the 3dos to a point that compensates for the error? You can have it function on client systems only, I believe.
We are the music makers... and we are the dreamers of dreams...
Neurotic|♣|Mobius Grith|♠|The Atrium
2006-02-20, 7:19 AM #35
because I don't have a cog that will rotate the 3dos, and I don't know how to cog, and no one will make one for me.
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2006-02-20, 9:27 AM #36
Sadly, this is going to be multiplayer, no? Otherwise, it wouldn't be too hard to create a 3DO culling system using a series of FireProjectiles and some simple math.

Of course, the multiple sectors would probably work better.

And how do you mean, rotate the 3DOs? Did I miss something? Given that most rotation COGs are pretty simple... I could probably make you one, depending on what you need.
"And lo, let us open up into the holy book of Proxy2..." -genk
His pot is blacker than his kettle!
2006-02-20, 10:02 AM #37
Originally posted by Spiral:
because I don't have a cog that will rotate the 3dos, and I don't know how to cog, and no one will make one for me.

Strange. How did you manage to stay in business for so long without learning cog?
"Häb Pfrässe, süsch chlepfts!" - The coolest language in the world (besides Cherokee)
2006-02-20, 12:55 PM #38
Originally posted by Spiral:
ok, the framerate has hit an all time low of "7"....

and it's no where close to being even finished.... is there ANY WAY i can make it to where the 3dos won't be rendered unless they are visable? I already set the 3dos not flagged as architecture, but it didn't work... I am planning on adding LOD, but I don't think that will help too much AT ALL..

Hellraiser said something about a cog that hides 3dos when they are not in view.. is this a possibility?


I don't suggest breaking up your main sector. There is absolutely no need for that now-a-days. If you want a quick fix without a cog, create a new dflt.mat that you can use for the time being. Just a simple 32x32 texture. Next, create another 16x16 texture, but this time just flood fill it black. Finally, use JKPaint to add the black texture as a mip to your new dflt texture.

Give all of your new models this mat. Play it once to see it in action. When it gets to the first mip change distance, the 3do's will begin disappearing. Exit and adjust it to where you want it.

If you want something with a little more "effect", create you can create a new dflt.mat that's 32x32, another version of that that's 33% Blue that's 16x16, another vrsion of is that's 66% blue that's 8x8, and then the 4x4 black transparent texture.

It'll make them look like their "culling" into the atmosphere. :)
"The solution is simple."
2006-02-20, 2:13 PM #39
But, yet, they will still be there, being drawn. How is that an optimization?
Wikissassi sucks.
2006-02-20, 2:55 PM #40
Originally posted by Spiral:
is there ANY WAY i can make it to where the 3dos won't be rendered unless they are visable? I already set the 3dos not flagged as architecture, but it didn't work... I am planning on adding LOD, but I don't think that will help too much AT ALL..

Hellraiser said something about a cog that hides 3dos when they are not in view.. is this a possibility?

JK doesn't render anything that's not in your viewing frustum. I know this because I've tested it. It's not that stupid. It does basic frustum culling just like every other 3D game engine ever made by a development team at least as smart as a group of monkeys.
Bassoon, n. A brazen instrument into which a fool blows out his brains.
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