http://www.jkhub.net/project/show.php?projid=315 <-- screenshots and download here!

Download the beta! Play the Beta! Tell me what you think!

(Requires thing limit removal patch)

You are a freaking legend.
LEGEND!
Now please stay this time!

Specific feedback format I'm looking for here:

http://www.jkhub.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1087

You can do better than that.

Canyons, eh?

Those screenshots are awesome. I can't wait to try this thing out! I'm so happy you're still piddling about with Jedi Knight. Especially single-player. That's cool!

Concidering I haven't downloaded the thing limit remover yet I'll go by screenshots. Nice architecture! (Now for some additional sculpting so the canyon doesn't appear handmade) But what you really want to do is replace those textures that came with the game with something more... custom and snazzy, something that captures the feel of a canyon better. Some details and nicknacks and some different textures could make it go from "nice" to "WOOT!"... in my opinion at any rate. =D

Am I missing something?
I haven't played the game, but the screenshots look like crap. No offense, but the canyons look like anything but canyons. I've seen better ones in dozens of mods and that's saying a lot because in most jk mods they are horrible.

The architecture for the base seems to be so-so.

Can't comment on the gameplay, because I haven't played it.

******, Northchaos and Tee were the only people who were ever any good at making canyons.

This level isn't eye candy. It's a single player level that was created a year before we even had 16-bit mats. I'm not looking for comments on the graphics, I'm looking for comments on the gameplay.

I'm gonna crit without playing it


Wait, no I'm not.
The canyons are very well made. Heck, the entire level is! The canyons would benefit from 16 bit textures, and increasing the mip map distance a bit.

I liked the big door puzzle. Very cool. The secret by the first probe droids was also neat.

The first cutscene was great, but the one by the tie bomber area seemed long and kind of pointless. Also the end was anticlimactic, because I was expecting some sort of ending scene at that point.

It's also kind of hard, since ammo is so sparse. But that's probably what you were going for.

Man, Zooikies.... try *playing* the level. I don't know how anyone could possibly be that negative toward this level if they actually played it. It's astounding. One of the best SP levels I've ever played. It's on part with RotE, that's for sure.

Ok so I found the time to actually play it:

First off: I couldn't complete the game, because after the tie-bomber part I didn't have any weapons or health to make it through the cargo room with 6 stormtroopers. There was a general shortage of powerups throughout the entire game.

Level design:
The puzzles I encountered were good. Level and encounter design ranged from poor to good. The buildup of the base for example was great and also how you saw parts you would not be able to visit until later. Also teh return to the base's main door after you find the 3 override switches was done well, because you know you have to get back to there and instead of having to backtrack or advance through boring hallways, you're pretty much immediately there.

Worse was as mentioned powerup placement. I couldn't find much, and I explored like crazy. There were often places you didn't really have to go, but could go. Like on top of boxes (of which I found one that had a weapon hidden there). Awarding players for exploring is one of the golden rules of FPS level design. Most notably in this case is the room that overlooks the hovercar in the garage. There's just nothing there. (or did I miss something completely?)

technical:
When I first got to the cutscene at the tie-bomber canyon. I died during it. Kyle somehow kept moving and fell all the way down. Didn't happen the other time. Don't know if I might have kept pressing the movement controls.

Graphics:
Well I already commented on that in my earlier post, to which you explained that it's X years old. I would suggest increasing the mipmap distance.

overal:

Waay more powerups. With the medbot, my health was usually ok, but my shield would run out quick (even with the supershield in the airducts) and there was way too little ammo available. Having the stormtroopers drop ammo, would probably help vastly. Other than that reward the player more for exploring. Seems promesing.

Please.. show me a dozen canyons that are better than that.. I'll wait...

Will this suffice? This is just what I could find in under 5 minutes.

http://www.massassi.net/ec/images/16879.jpg
http://www.massassi.org/sotd/images/full/2006-08-10.jpg
http://veddertheshredder.com/pics/SHOT0102.jpg
http://veddertheshredder.com/pics/SHOT0104.jpg
http://www.massassi.org/sotd/images/full/2003-07-03.jpg
http://www.massassi.org/sotd/images/full/2001-08-30.jpg
http://www.massassi.org/sotd/images/full/2000-10-19.jpg
http://www.massassi.org/sotd/images/full/2000-07-21.jpg

But if the level's architecture is indeed made before 16 bit mats which was 2001 if I remember correctly; Then it certainly wasn't bad for its time.

http://www.massassi.org/sotd/images/full/2000-07-21.jpg

^ you really think that is better?

Hey! Don't bash Cguy's level!

Well I know of at least one...

Haha nice one.



I mostly included that because, as far as I know Cguy was one of the first people to experiment with canyons that didn't look like boxes. I must confess in my memory it looked better, but I actually do think it looks slightly better. And his canyon was kind of evolutionary at the time.

And I like how you attack one of my links just to appear to have the final word.

And as you might have noticed I already gave a more nuanced post about the level which goes more into what ****** wanted to know. Which was in another post and therefore hadn't bothered to read before.

Haha why is Juz's name sensored

It always has been.

There are seven secrets in the level with a cache of goodies in each one. Did you find them all? If not, perhaps you should explore more ;). I ran through the level on easy and did notice a subtle lack of ammo, since there aren't as many baddies to harvest extra powercells from, but I feel the ammo and health/shield placement is pretty even on medium/hard. There are some issues in 2 places where enemies are not dropping guns when you kill them, but I honestly have no idea what is causing it. Back when I originally created the level, the thing limit removal patch was not even dreamed of, so the level skirted on the edge of disaster due to it's immense size. Now that the limit doesn't exist, I can look at these issues and add in some more crates o' ammo.


Known issue. There's a grate there now to catch you, most of the time. Before that the player would sometimes just go flying off the cliff, which was quite amusing as the cutscene captured it perfectly. I've tried a couple of ways to get the player to stop moving as soon as they enter the trigger sector, but nothing appears to be working.


As I said above, I'm not sure why they're not. It's certain not intended. I also had issues with an elevator cog refusing to work in a specific area, so I'm not sure if it's just a issue with JK spawning items really far from the origin...


I'll consider adding more secret areas and ammo caches. I also enjoy exploring and finding little hidden nooks and crannies. That's probably why there are so many of them in the level :p

Thank you for your feedback.

I'd just like to say I've played about halfway through your level and I love it. I'm deep in the storage area. I just love this area due to its immense size and the fact there are multiple levels you keep going down. It's so awesome.

One thing I'm continually impressed with in this level is all the secreat areas. Most of them aren't even flagged as secret areas, but still require the player to explore to find them. In the storage area, I found this little hole in the wall that I'm sure is a secret, but I'm having a hard time making the jump. I also found the rail detonator secret next to the AT-STs, even though it's in plain view.

However, I'm totally stuck now. I'm in an area with a bunch of AT-STs, the same area as the rail detonator secret on top of the boxes, in fact. There's some drills there with a hole cut into the rock, and there's also an elevator up. However, when I press the button on the elevator, it just beeps at me. I'm physically stuck. There's nowhere I can go. What do I do?

Have you grabbed the key yet? It's in the drill machine facing the cave. The elevator won't activate until after you've grabbed the key.

(Note: There is a bug down there -- if you grab the key, use the elevator, and then jump off of the elevator back into the storage elevator, you're stuck. The elevator won't come back down.)

Jedi Knight crashes every time I go inside the drill machine facing the cave. Does this mean I'm stuck?

Ok.. I'll attack 'another' one.. (and this goes for a few of those you picked out too)

http://www.massassi.org/sotd/images/full/2006-08-10.jpg

Anyone can make 3do's (especially using 3ds max) with a displacement map, a UV wrap and throw it into JK and everyone is like OMFG wow.. No offense to the original author of that level but I have no respect for 3do built levels and I never will.. they take very little 'level building' skills. But really.. I'm not intruding on Juz's post anymore so if you have anything else to say PM.

Ugg... that's odd. I've never had any crashing issues with the level. The key is in that machine, though. You could just use the items cheat to get the key, but then you'll have the 3rd override chip as well. I suppose you could pretend you didn't

I guess I'll do that, then. I don't know the cheat, though. A little help would be in order.

Freelancer, make sure your graphics settings are ok too

http://www.massassi.net/jediknight/cheats.shtml ?

I just finished the level. It was legendary, IMO. It takes a place in my top 4 favorite JK levels ever along with Imperial Siege on Derra IV, Siege on Vol Kanst, and RotE I. The second half of the level was simply stunning. Awesome work.......

translation: freelancer wants your babies

Vol Kanst - I remember that level. Do you still have it?

I just got inside the Command Center and I have to say this is one of the best single player experiences I've had with JK. The whole thing is very reminiscent of Dark Forces.

I just beat it, it was pretty fun but the lack of enemies made me sad

I didn't really have any problems with ammo shortage, except in the *very* beginning, but after that I was perfectly fine the entire time. If you don't hold down your fire key when you kill baddies you shouldn't have a problem

PedHead? Hey there I didn't know you were still in the community.

It's pretty awesome. On hard, though, it's a nightmare. I'm constantly strapped for ammo and my health is in the single digits most of the time.

There is also an excessive number of probe droids and mailocs. They're fun to kill occasionally but they get really frustrating.

There's also other aesthetic things like most of the water not moving in the big canyon (after the third key). Also the flat lighting is very irritating and makes it very difficult to see and navigate. Especially in that big crate maze setup with all those damn probe droids.

Emon - Well, if you found Hard to be a nightmare, then my mission was successful

The water not moving is noted in the bugs. It's just laziness on my part.

I'll look at the lighting in the deep storage area. It's not entirely easy to light a bunch of crates in a big square cave. :p

Thanks for the feedback!

Hmm, that was probably why I found it so hard. Big chance I was playing on hard as well.

On Medium I had to cheat to get past some of the probe droids.