Well, there is to some degree, basically saying kids must do like, math, science and art. But thats about it, oh, and theres the no child left behind act, which funds schools for lying and cheating, it does reward some schools with funding for doing good things and such, but I've heard way to many stories about teachers telling kids answers to tests, or changing the answers to make the school/teacher look better to get funding

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Happy "Diseased" dud: You said I'd be like this guy. Boycotting everything..
Happy "Diseased" dud: ted kazcnisky. That's who it was.
Happy "Diseased" dud: Wait, That's the unibomer.
Happy "Diseased" dud: Wrong guy.

[This message has been edited by fishstickz (edited February 05, 2004).]

It's stupid to exclude the word "evolution" because it supposedly carries negative connotations, but evolution *is* biological changes through time. To me, it would be no different than to remove the term "holocaust" from history texts and replacing it with "the mass slaughter of innocent people by Nazi Germany".



That would severely handicap students of biological and life sciences to exclude evolution from the curriculum. Creationism, on the other hand, has no place in the science classroom.



What I find funny is the fact that southern states haven't been the only ones to challenge evolution in state public school curricula.


-Fox

Not really Fox, i think we took a grand total of one Biology course [and one Genetics course i opted into] in high-school, it wouldn't 'handicap' children to wait until college any more than brainwashing their impressionable minds with such primary school things as 'you can never subtract a larger number from a smaller number' or 'you need to learn cursive as you will use it /all/ the time in the future' or bollocks about how ostensibly the native americans lived way back in the day with the implication that they still live like that just to assuage some sort of collective conscience or whatever, or various scientific or whatver theories that are outdated by 25y because they can't afford to update their texts, or spending so much time in english courses teaching about that chimeric Diversity thing that you never learn literature or writing skills or grammar, or similar other nonsense that they teach and you get to college and they have to un-teach all of that again.

Focus on essentials before that for spiro's sake, like mathematics or reading and writing and tying one's shoes and personal responsibility and that sort of thing, children are largely brainless and extremely impressionable during those years, maybe if we got them indoctrinated with the three Rs we wouldn't still have a 12% illiteracy rate among college graduates here in the States.

Primary school is intended primarily [heh] to be a microcosm of socialisation, a mini-society almost as it were, it's /not/ about teaching first-period french, it's about teaching them how to survive and respond to a world larger than themselves and their parents sorta thing. Youre supposed to remember all of like 9% of what you learn in those grades anyways, and that 9% is how to learn information and solve problems and that sort of thing, not whether the Hopi indians used currents or blackberries in their pemmican, or whateher short bill finches evolved from long-bill finches, they won't remember the framework of it or the reasons or background or whatever else, all theyll remember is liek omqz0rz we evolvedz0rz. Hence, wait 'til theyre competent and mature enough to figure things out on their own, make their own decisions, know which information to keep or discard as opposed to just absorbing everything Mrs Robinson says like a sponge.

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[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"You'll have to face it, the endings are the same however you slice it. Don't be deluded by any other endings, they're all fake, with malicious intent to deceive, or just motivated by excessive optimism if not by downright sentimentality. The only authentic ending is the one provided here: John and Mary die. John and Mary die. John and Mary die." -Happy Endings [Margeret Atwood]
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

If you call right next to Lake Michigan and less than 30 miles from Chicago in Indiana south. o.O

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-=I'm the wang of this here site, and it's HUGE! So just imagine how big I am.=-
1337Yectiwan
OSC Returns!!
10 of 14 -- 27 Lives On

I think I learned both theories in my primary school. Creationism in R.S. and Evvolution in Science, because we were too young to get biology.

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The Earth is the cradle of the mind, but one cannot stay in the cradle forever.
-- Konstantin Tsiolkovsky, The Father of Rocketry

Strangely enough, I actually agree with Firefox on this one.

*gasp*

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"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." -Hebrews 11:1
"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us[/i] is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ." -Ephesians 4:4-7

The Giant Internet IC Masturbator - Index of IC pinouts
Catalog of Electronic Components - Complete IC information

I heard all Southern moms wear combat boots.

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead

southern accents are so cute.

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[teletubbie voice] BIG HUG!!!! [/teletubbie voice]

*Screams like a banshee and runs around frantically waving arms*

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"Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." -Hebrews 11:1
"There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. But unto every one of us[/i] is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ." -Ephesians 4:4-7

The Giant Internet IC Masturbator - Index of IC pinouts
Catalog of Electronic Components - Complete IC information
National Electrical Code (NEC) Online - Don't do wiring without consulting it. OR ELSE!

[This message has been edited by DogSRoOL (edited February 05, 2004).]

I tell huew hwat peggy. Ma dahdde cewd kill yo dahdde. He kills gayterz.

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Contrafribularities

Huh?

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

Wow. That's gotta be a pretty retarded idea. Was this woman elected or appointed?

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Steal my dreams and sell them back to me.....

Thus changing.. what exactly?

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MadQuack on Military school: Pro's: I get to shoot a gun. Con's: Everything else.
"I'm going to beat you until the laws of physics are violated!!" ! Maeve's Warcry

RIP -MaDaVentor-. You will be missed.

yes... yes i do... no, must've been someone else... bleh.


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please

Duh! Isn't it clear? They're banning the word "evolution," but you can still use it all you want.

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Do you have stairs in your house?

Heh, I read this fast and thought that we were gender bashing now too. Whew.

Best political statement ever. This is a literal kick in the face against the conservatives. Now that the evolution controversey is cleared up teachers can continue to teach a well documented scientific theory.


Also I'm calling BS on that post Dor. Children have the best learning curve of any age group. Things they learn in grade school continue to build even into the longest years of thier lives. It's merely the failure of US education systems for treating children like little morons who need to distinguish between red and green if they have any chance of future success.

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A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk I have a workstation...

Oh God. I thought I would just call bs and leave it to you to reply but this really has me irked.

Take a psychology class before you start making comments on how you think the human brain functions.

This is the exact reason why future generations of children will turn out to be total morons.

Children are not brainless and are easily impressionable. Children are like sponge at that age. Any bit of imformation they recieve becomes information that gets stored and may be recalled at ANY time during thier lives as a reference to a specific bit of knowledge. Children are blank slates, the things you embed on thier minds stay with them the rest of thier lives. Basics aren't enough. They need to understand application of knowledge gained in order to build on that knowledge later.

As it is we seem fixated if our ten year olds can count on thier fingers.

No wonder america ranks so low in education. ALL OUR KIDS ARE CUTE LITTLE DUMMYS, LETS TEACH THEM TO SING AND IMITATE WRESTLING MOVES.

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A bus station is where a bus stops. A train station is where a train stops.
On my desk I have a workstation...


[This message has been edited by Farix (edited February 06, 2004).]

Darwin would never have liked the word 'evolution' to be used in regard to his work anyway. It seems to imply that organisms change during their lifetime (as does 'biological change over time') and he specifically wanted to avoid such confusion. Evolution is all about dieing. If things don't die at an adequate rate then they won't evolve. The phrase Darwin used was 'Natural selection', referring to how the least adapted to the environment were killed the most, so those genes were removed from the gene pool. That makes sense.

And that's why we arent evolving

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Happy "Diseased" dud: You said I'd be like this guy. Boycotting everything..
Happy "Diseased" dud: ted kazcnisky. That's who it was.
Happy "Diseased" dud: Wait, That's the unibomer.
Happy "Diseased" dud: Wrong guy.

What about children who are interested in the biological sciences? It would do well for them to be introduced with evolution at an earlier stage. It's hardly brainwashing.



... I thought I said the same thing....?



Individuals don't evolve, yes. Species do, however.


-Fox

I'm not saying children innaterly can't or shouldn't be taught anything beyond the basics, i'm just calling it like i saw/see it. Like you said Farix, it's not a psychological whatever, it's an issue with the american methods and curriculum, and as far as i'm concerned, if the curriculum is going to be revised or revolutionised they should damn well focus on actually making sure that children actually solidly learn the basic math/reading/writing skills. And hell let's throw in a solid grasp of logic/oratory/rhetoric while we're at it if possible.

But i go to college, and i see frequently the 'results' of the current method, and i see nothing at all to make me disbelieve the 12% illiteracy rate of college graduates thing, or the lack of understanding of basic maths ['wait so you mean fractions and decimals relate to eachother??'], or the complete inability to rationally discuss or defend a point or whatever.

Get those things covered while theyre in elementary or middle or whatever, there's /lots/ of time after that to study their interests at a level and facility of reasonable validity and authourity [as opp/to for instance as i had mentioned, the very outdated sciences or incomplete histories or the like which you get even up in high-school]. Until then though, revising the curriculum without addressing those issues is like going on a humanitarian aid mission to africa and painting people's houses while they starve inside.

*stares at several of the stack of books he still needs to read before their rent expires:
-Dumbing down our kids : why America's children feel good about themselves but can't read, write, or add / Charles J. Sykes.
-Dumbing us down : the hidden curriculum of compulsory schooling / John Taylor Gatto.
-Endangered minds : why our children don't think / Jane M. Healy.

[And perhaps 'brainless' wasn't quite the right word, more that they tend to rather lack discernment or judgement on things, most especially if they are things told them by someone in authourity or whatever as a teacher or parent]

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[Blue Mink Bifocals !] [fsck -Rf /world/usr/] [<!-- kalimonster -->] [Capite Terram]
"You'll have to face it, the endings are the same however you slice it. Don't be deluded by any other endings, they're all fake, with malicious intent to deceive, or just motivated by excessive optimism if not by downright sentimentality. The only authentic ending is the one provided here: John and Mary die. John and Mary die. John and Mary die." -Happy Endings [Margeret Atwood]
NPC.Interact::PressButton($'Submit');

[This message has been edited by Dormouse (edited February 06, 2004).]

From what I have seen in college, I will agree on the literacy point, but for the fact they cannot rationally debate anything I place squarely on the shoulders of H.S. and moreso college professers.

It has been my experience (I have gone to 3 colleges over my life - graduating in 2 weeks with my B.A. - and visited classes in many others), that there are a LOT of professors out there who use their position as a political pulpit, and teach class in such a manner that the only way to get a good grade is to essentially agree with the professor. It's mostly liberal teachers who do this, although I have come across a couple of conservatives.

That is one of my beefs about the higher education system - professors are paid to teach, not whine about politics that have nothing to do with their class, and convince the class that he/she is right. Anyone who does that in my eyes should be fired; they are wasting valuable class time with that nonesense. There is a time and a place to talk about those things, and the classroom is NOT it, save one exception: if you are taking a political science class, then politics is of great importance, but great care should be taken to make sure both sides are presented rationally and EQUALLY.

This is the main problem with the education system: we subconsciously tell our students to think like their teachers, rather just present the options in a non-opinionated light and make them think and choose for themselves. That is one of the reasons why education is so down in america - we produce a nation of copycats, not innovators.

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*Joren, Legend, Alleged Egomaniac, Thread-Killer, 2-time Ban Recipient, and 6th Grade Spelling Champ*

Well, you're not exactly the most rational debator either.

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Shut up. I'm GOING to do this whether you like it or not.

erm...the US actually is pretty good when it comes to education. Well, it was in the early 20th century anyway. We taught our enemies in WWII then. I wouldn't think it would change so drastically since then. We still have people coming over here for an education.

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"What I find especially funny are the neo-Celtic religions based on accounts made by the Romans. It's like learning about Judaism from Nazi lore." --stat

Actually, I hear we are. According to my Bible teacher last year, there have been reports of people being born without pinky toes, supposedly because the human species is evolving.

Don't know how true that is. I thought it was pretty interesting, though.

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Do you have stairs in your house?

That's true, the pinky toe is getting smaller and smaller because it is useless.

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Contrafribularities

No, the reason human being aren't 'evolving' is because humans aren't dieing enough. I think that's what the other blokey was getting at.

You are entitled to your opinion.

However, I find the people who say that the most are also the ones who have the hardest time defending their own points. So really, when I hear that from most people, I take it with a grain of salt.

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*Joren, Legend, Alleged Egomaniac, Thread-Killer, 2-time Ban Recipient, and 6th Grade Spelling Champ*

Time to start the R[biological changes over time]!

haha!

Someone call for Maddox?

But I remember learning, that species only evolve because it helps them reproduce or get food more easily. Just because something is "useless" doesnt mean evolution will just make it go away

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Happy "Diseased" dud: You said I'd be like this guy. Boycotting everything..
Happy "Diseased" dud: ted kazcnisky. That's who it was.
Happy "Diseased" dud: Wait, That's the unibomer.
Happy "Diseased" dud: Wrong guy.

YES!
My Chameleon biologically changed through time to become CHARIZARD!

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When you expect the pain - nothing left to ascertain
When you respect the lie - Deadly chasm open wide
---Circle of Dust "Chasm"

Whatever, man

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I'm not an actor. I just play one on TV.

I think the pinky toe is going away so we don't friggin' stub it on every damn corner in the world.

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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead

Did you just stub your toe, Wolfy?

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Have a good one,
Freelancer

Wolfy, your hex post count is so last year.

Ironically, it's usually my big toe that I stub. If the thing wasn't so friggin' huge compared to the pinky toe...





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"LC Tusken: the idiot is the person who follows the idiot and your not following me your insulting me your following the path of a idiot so that makes you the idiot"
NMGOH || Jack Chick preaches it || The Link of the Dead