I think you misunderstood me. It doesn't matter if the movie/plot is logically sound or not -- if the audience has beefs with what they're suppose to assume (or not assume as the case may be), the story fails to communicate a believable senario. It might not be fair at times, but those are the breaks. I've found out the hard way many times.

------------------
Check out the following stories over at the Interactive Story Board:
The Never-ending Story Thread or visit the new webcomic version!
The Vision Cycle series
Featured Story: The Darkside Chronicles

Apology accepted.

------------------
"When all else fails, eat pie."
-¬thoughts from beyond observance

BS. I have cited observed instances, which I used to draw my conclusions.



They didn't because of bad writing. ANY species that is going to go to such lengths: cross interstellar distances, abduct organisms from another planet for food and other resources, would have the technology to protect themselves from such things. Interstellar radiation is not something to sneeze at.



Show that they find technology to be dishonorable when they used it to travel to Earth.

Yet they make such stupid decisions as positioning their ships over cities, well in view of their inhabitants? How is that surprising the human populatition?



Sure, but again, what property would nullify water vapor's effect on aliens? Would you say that spraying them with a mist would have no effect? How about dealing with Super Soaker-armed preteens? How about the problem of water condensing on their skin? Why run through fields of corn that are on the verge of ripening, and are soaked with water? Don't forget that at night, dew can become a problem.



No sense at all, since they would be aware that we have ranged weapons of our own. They would need such weapons for self-defense, taking down doors, etc.



Or simply bad writing. Would you invade a planet covered mostly in sulfuric acid, without the benefit of protective gear?



Then present another plausible reason they abducted us.



... They need superior technology to navigate through space. As such, they would have no need to resort to making signposts of their own, if they have technology that matches or exceeds our own. Do you spraypaint houses in order to use them as landmarks?



Not an argument. He is knowledgeable enough in the subject to speak on it.



Only after you have been criticized for failing to provide them. Someone here has ego, and it certainly is not me.


-Fox

[This message has been edited by Firefox (edited March 04, 2004).]

This will be my last reply in this thread.



Observances which have your skew on how you think things should be, not as they are presented. You have yet to put forth any unbiased proof. Burden of that is on you.



Oh really? even if they have a technology that bypasses that altogether, maybe such as a unique way of space-folding? Again, another assumption on your part. And shame on you for blaming bad writing, although for once, we get to something that is your opinion that is presented as such with that comment. A first for you in this thread. Congrats.



I meant technology used in warfare, not in general, and I don't have to prove anything, because it is a THEORY, as in a possibilty. I, unlike you, do not feel as though I need to present a possibility or my own opinion as 100% fact. It was to show that possibilities outside of what you considered are out there. You have a unique way of pidgeon-holing things into your argument, rather than meet them on objective terms. Kinda like trying to put a square peg into a round hole.



The surprise was for the scout troops. Once they got here, we have no time to prepare, and they land en masse - the trap is sprung, and the surprise and confusion sowed worked. It's like you are asking why a military force that sprung a surprise trap didn't keep it more of a surprise... you have to spring the trap sooner or later.



Likely water at a certain density would have an effect. The thing is, we would need:

a) for the aliens to be real
b) an alien corpse or tissue sample
c) to apply scientific method for real this time, to see why that is.

Heck, why is some mold harmful to us, and some have antibiotical properties? It's all mold. My point with that is that until testing, it was all mold, but after, it was discovered there are different kinds of mold, and pennecillin has the antibiotical properties, while some others do not. Therefore, we do not know why water at a certain density affects the aliens in a bad way, but if we were able to, we could via scientific method. Just because we haven't witnessed a behaviour before does not mean it can't happen.



Right, because we would nuke ourselves to kill the aliens, and us too, right? In the military, will a marine go though a heavily guarded front door, when a less secure, less guarded back door will suffice? Therefore, if they have observed us prior to landing, why go though the trouble of going through a door, when a window is just easier? They are smart enough to not make more work for themselves, I would think...



They weren't hanging around. And consider this - if water harms them, then it is possible that they do not have it on their home planet - therefore, it is possible they do not have water in sufficient quantities to test, and therefore develop a countermeasure to. Perhaps that is why we were so valuable in the movie - you said we are mostly water. We can be taken and studied to find a way around their water issue.



I just did, and thank you for proving with that statement that you are making assumptions based on your own opinions.



I knew you wouldn't actually read my post, since you missed the part where I addressed that. You know, the part where I said:



How convenient for you. Let me reiterate - the journey to us could have sapped up a ton of resources. Therefore, crop circles was done because it was low tech, and allowed for them to conserve energy for the trip home. There - a plausible explanation.



Oh really? Sorry, but I missed the part where using an astronomer to debate matters of alien physiology, physics, and quantum mechanicsis is logical. Shall I grab a restaurant critic to tell you how to be a chef? Or an airline stewardess or steward to tell you how to be a pilot? Point made, though I am certain it will be lost on you.



No, they were always there, just scattered throughout my posts. All this tells me is that you were too lazy to read through my previous posts, and wouldn't actually address anything I said until I consolidated it into one post and spelled it out for you. If anything, that reflects badly on you, not me.



Good note to end on - with the childish "No I'm not, you are! Nyah!" argument.

Your lack of maturity astounds me Fox. You may try to come off as some intellectual hot shot, but I see right through it.

So make whatever comment you need to after my post to feel better about yourself, as I am 100% certain you will do, because I am done with this silly thread. All I needed to do to prove my point was provide that there were possibilities in which the movie made sense, which I did.

The irony is, if you just said "I didn't like the movie." and left it as your opinion, rather than trying to present it as if you were stating absolute fact, I would have much more respect for you. Now, I just kinda pity you.

-------------------
--------------------------------------
Fear is here, where's the beer?

[This message has been edited by -Fear- (edited March 04, 2004).]

I'm not going to continue this argument any further. We're only going in circles because you insist on assuming we know everything there is to know about water, how and what the aliens were made up of, and the aliens knew everything about us and our world. For some reason I can't make you understand that they may not be designed like we were. You say they had no weapons- perhaps they did, but since their weapons functioned on another plane of existance they never even effected us enough for us to realize that they're there. You assume that everything is made up of atoms, when it may not be at all. You assume this physical world that humans see and feel and experience and live in is all there is to the universe, and in my opinion, it's almost certainly not. The way I see it, other lifeforms could be living among us right now, and yet because they are compiled of something we've never had the opportunity to study before, or maybe even live on a different world of physics, we can't detect them, and they can't detect us. I leave this argument with that.

(edit - heh, I just read that fear has posted his last post on this thread too. Great minds think alike, I guess? )

------------------
Do you have stairs in your house?

[This message has been edited by Correction (edited March 04, 2004).]

Correction, physical water kills the aliens. There is water in the air - moisture, clouds, rain, whatever. This moisture is deadly to their species.

Don't believe that there's water in the air? Here's a little experiment: Fill a glass full of ice and leave it on a table for a few minutes. Where do you think the condensation on the side of the glass comes from?

The aliens would have instantly died the second they set foot on the planet, touched any vegetation, or had a sudden and violent encounter with any combusting materials. End of story. Every single place on the planet has moisture in the soil except that one Mars-like desert (can't remember the name).

[This message has been edited by Jon`C (edited March 04, 2004).]

Jon'C, the point correction and I are trying to make, and that is seemingly going over everyone's head, is that there is a possibility that water, only in it's liquid form, does damage to the aliens. Not in a gas, and not in a solid. Gasses and solids have different properties than each other, and also from liquid. Therefore, it can be argued that they need to avoid water above a certain concentration.

For a better illustration, think of certain drugs or chemicals, that in minute amounts are harmless to us, but are lethal in more concentrated amounts. It's a similar theory to that, and well within the realm of possibility.

------------------
--------------------------------------
Fear is here, where's the beer?

1) Nice comment. Where did it come from?

2) What part of "Therefore, it can be argued that they need to avoid water above a certain concentration." did you not understand?

BTW, My feet don't seem to get wet when walking on soil barefoot, unless it is right after it rains. And the aliens of the movie seemed to be very conscious of the weather patterns...



------------------
--------------------------------------
Fear is here, where's the beer?

Your feet do get wet, but you don't notice it because your skin is constantly secreting water and skin oil. You can take a piece of dry paper towel, lay it on some bare soil during the day, and it'll come away damp. Put it on grass? More damp. Wait until nightfall and put it on bare soil or grass? Wet.

The world is very, very moist. You just don't notice because: 1.) So are you, and 2.) You weren't looking.

You become painfully aware of how much water is sitting around when you take up hiking.

I know, but it goes back to my thing about the concentration of water. The water concentration on the ground might not be high enough to do harm.



------------------
--------------------------------------
Fear is here, where's the beer?

See, though, that's making a pretty huge assumption. All we know is that water kills them. This planet has a very huge amount of water, and it can be found in large amounts on every surface, in every solid ionic compound and at a high concentration in the air. If water is that poisonous to them, they wouldn't even be able to break out some food and eat it without picking up a few billion stray water molecules.

And it really doesn't matter how much 'water concentration' there is. If you have a swimming pool filled with dilute hydrochloric acid, it's going to hurt you eventually.

[This message has been edited by Jon`C (edited March 04, 2004).]

Wow, if this much argument can stem from a movie like "Signs", imagine the debates caused by the scientific inconsistencies in something like "The Core"

Worst part in that movie: "Prime numbers, right. 1,2,3,5,7,11..."

------------------
Death to all who oppose me!

The rest of the debate aside, the term "water concentration" seems to be the biggest hang-up on Fear's and Correction's part, let alone the inconsistencies regarding the aliens' level of technology with what we see on film.

The burden of proof rests on the claim that water concentration is the determining factor in whether or not water harms the aliens. Show some evidence that that's the case, or drop it.



Your condescending attitude is not wanted. I've already explained that my opinion is based on fact. If you have a problem with that, it is yours alone.


-Fox

Jon'c:

That's the point though Jon. All we can do is speculate. We know more than just "water kills them" - we also know it has to be a liquid form of water, since atmosphere and soil moisture had no effect.

By the way, with the burden of proof on me, within the confines of the movie, there it is. The only known is liquid water does immediate damage. We do not know if the moisture in the air or on the ground has no effect, or a slightly deteriorating effect on the aliens, because the subject wasn't brought up in the movie. But just because it wasn't brought up, does not mean it cannot theoretically exist.


Fox:

I have already said that since this is a fictional alien civilization we are talking about, you really don't have anything that can come close to resembling fact - only speculation.

The difference between you and me is I speak of possibilities, not definites like you, given the unknown nature of the alien species.

Oh, and on this:



Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black?
You have been practically nothing but condescending throughout this entire thread.

In truth, you sound like you speak more from wounded pride than logic. Are you too embarrased to cut your losses and admit you were actually wrong? /rhetorical

------------------
--------------------------------------
Fear is here, where's the beer?