Oh please, nothing in his post hinted humour.

SMITE SMITE SMITE!!

Well, it was a change from FIGHT. *shrug*

Very technically, by birth I'm Catholic (my dad was), but then I was Christened as an Anglican, and I now don't have anything to do with Religion personally, I'm agnostic, but religion (particularly Christianity and it's history) fascinates me.

Yes Sir! *Passes right along*

Im really more of an aetheist, but im down as a member of the church of scotland

C'mon, I'm not gothy!
I was just afraid that people would get offended at my joke, because sometimes tensions get high around here.
Sometimes I can't resist making semi-offensive jokes.


I am indeed a practising Christian. I unfortunately haven't been reading much of my bible lately though.
A lot of my real life friends figure out I'm a christian even if I don't tell them or draw attention to it. It's cool I think, and I consider it a good thing that I give off that impression just by how I talk and act.

I am a practicing christian. I wasn't always really, It wasn't really that serious to me, but when my life started getting rough I started to really take it seriously, and I still do.

Ya know, that old proverb fits quite nicely here.
"Going to church doesn't make you any more christian than going to a garage makes you a mechanic."

I practice my religion. Some areas I kinda don't agree with, or am simply neutral on (such as, I don't see anything wrong with swearing for something like banging my head on a doorknob -- ie "d*** it that hurt!"), but for the most part I tend to be more conservative (funny that I say that, considering recently I've had trouble paying attention at mass; I zone out a lot).

I don't see what's so bad about getting bored during mass.
What church really should be about is getting with fellow believers in God's name.

How was I supposed to know that? I'm not Christian. :p

I just feel a bit bad that I can't keep a straight mind there. Mostly because I try really hard to pay attention but I just can't do it.

Of course I find Paul's epistles confusing so I almost never understand them even when I do manage to listen.

I grew up in a non-denominational church. I now attend a church that would probably consider itself inter-denominational. I just had to add a new category.



That's actually kind of funny when you read it. You're saying the same thing in two different tenses. If you want to be technical about the definitions (and I generally am :)) just break down the word. This may be what you meant, in which case, hopefully this will just be clarification:

a = without
gnostic = knowledge (from the greek)

agnostic = someone who believes it is impossible to know whether or not God exists

Thus an agnostic does not have to profess any belief or unbelief in God. They merely believe it is impossible to know whether or not God exists.

a = without
theist = belief in God

athiest = without belief in God (pretty self-explanatory :))

I'm a practising Christian.

Paul...
One of the things at my church that we joke about was that Paul was on drugs. He has a very confusing writing style.
It also depends on the translation of the bible. They might not read it in the church, but from my experience, the New Living Translation is the best. I'd recommend you pick up a copy, it's easy to understand but not inaccurate.

Anyway, you don't have to feel bad about it. Your church just doesn't fit your style.

Judging by what others have said, I seem to be the only Episcopalian on these boards.

/me feels lonely. . .

My dad's family was originally Episcopalian...

I am a practicing Christian.

I'm a born again agnostic leaning toward buddhism. BUT I used to attend and believe in the teachings of a non-denominational semi-baptist church before I decided it was all crackpot old geezers twisting the teachings of Mithraism to their own devices.

Most nontraditional Christian sects creep me out almost as much as a tree raping a woman, but I've only seen that on television, so I would say the nontrads freak me out more (LDS, JW)

Bible-based.
Whatever the Bible says goes.

Example: Saints. Bible says we are all Saints, not just a few. Why I don't really agree with Catholicism sometimes.

*points and laughs at Jehova's*

Lutheran baby...

I think you could be an agnostic atheist or an agnostic Christian. Agnosticism means whether you think it could be PROVED that God exists. The whole idea of Christianity is faith, so I don't think the two concepts are very far separated at all.

Agnostic "Weak" Atheist, here. I don't think anything supernatural would be subject to natural laws at all, that's the whole idea. I just don't believe in any supernatural beings because I have no evidence for any.

DISCLAIMER: I'm not attempting to insult anyone's beliefs, what works for me may not work for you, consult your doctor before changing religious beliefs, above statement not valid in Nevada.

No, agnostics don't believe in the existance of God either.

You can't really be 'agnostic Christian'. Pretty much the only thing that all Christian denominations have in common is the belief in one God (or is it?), you can't really be a Christian without believing in God.

It's just that lots of people use 'agnostic' to mean 'I don't want to have an opinion', giving it this false sense of neutrality.

the term 'agnostic' is for people who have to live around religious discrimination and religious fanatics. Saying you're agnostic rather than atheist is a lot less incriminating when dealing with those whackos.

I'm a Catholic FOREVER

Is there really anything as an atheist, really? I mean, they say things that are offensive to God, but if they really didn't believe in God, why do they continue to talk about Him like He exists in our world?

Maybe there are atheists who don't spend all their time bashing religion?

Church of Christ.

I don't want to turn this into a debate thread, but since so many people who claim to be Christians are posting here, I am curious: How many of you have been baptized into Christ? And I don't mean being sprinkled with water as an infant, because that's not what the Bible says to do. I mean believing that Jesus is the Son of God, confessing that with your mouth, and being baptized into His death and being reborn with the Holy Spirit.

I've not been baptized -- my church (and I) sees baptism is simply a public declaration of your belief, not anything essential to salvation.

I was baptized in the holy spirit... is that what you mean?

Jesus said in Matthew 28:18, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me."

No offense, but it doesn't matter what you or your church thinks.

In John 12:48, Jesus said, "There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day."

You can choose to ignore Jesus' words, but His words will be your judge.

In Matthew 28:18-20, Jesus said, "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you."

Jesus said, plain and simple, "baptize them." If you choose to ignore that, well, God gave you free will.

In Mark 16:16, Jesus said, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."

Remember that Jesus' words will be your judge. Jesus said that whoever believes and is baptized will be saved.

Romans 6:3, "Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. If we have been united with him like this in his death, we will certainly also be united with him in his resurrection. For we know that our old self was crucified with him so that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves to sin, because anyone who dies has been freed from sin."



In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist said, "...But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

Only Jesus can baptize with the Holy Spirit.

After Saul was blinded, he spent three days fasting and praying. When Ananias came to him and restored his sight, he said, in Acts 22:16, "And now what are you waiting for? Get up, be baptized and wash your sins away, calling on His name."

If none of that will convince you, think about this: Jesus himself was baptized. Are we not commanded to imitate the Lord? If Jesus himself was baptized, shouldn't we be baptized also?

Matthew 3:13, "Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness." Then John consented. As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."

Baptism is a word with the basic meaning of"passing from one into another". However, there are two different scenarios for baptism in the Greek; one was spiritual, and one physical. The spiritual baptism occurs at the moment of salvation, and is the "transformation", if you will, from the old self to living in Christ though the Holy spirit. That's the baptism referred to in the Romans 6 passage, not a physical baptism with water.

There are verses with reference to "baptism unto repentance/salvation", in reference to the physical, water baptism, but the Greek verb "eis" is not meant as "unto", meaning a cause of something, but more accurately as "because of", a result of something. The verses would better read "[physical] baptism because of salvation/repentance."

So yes, I have been baptized in the Holy Spirit, during the act of repenting of my sins and accepting Christ's death as payment and entering into an eternal relationship with God.

I've also been baptised physically, dunked in a water tank, as a symbolic picture of what occured "invisibly".

Ephesians :8-9 states "For by grace are you saved, through faith, and not of yourselves, it is the gift from God, not by any works (including physical water baptism, penance, sacrifices, or other rituals) so that no man may boast."

Water baptism is not required for salvation, but spiritual baptism is.

I disagree. In Ephesians 4:4, Paul said, "There is one body and one Spirit--just as you were called to one hope when you were called-- one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all."

Romans 6 says, "We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life."

In I Peter 3, it says, "...and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also--not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ...."



In Matthew 3:11, John the Baptist said, "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire."

John's baptism was a baptism of repentance, not a baptism of salvation. John's baptism was done before Jesus' death and resurrection.

You refer to "the verses"; which ones?



Again, I Peter 3, "...and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also..." Not earlier; now. "...It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ...." When you are baptized, you are buried with Christ into death, and raised with him into salvation.

You quoted Ephesians 2:8-9, but you added your own thoughts into the quote. That's dangerous.

Yes, you're saved by grace through faith. However, baptism is a work of God, not of man. Ephesians 2:8-9 is referring to works of man, meaning that simply doing good works will not bring salvation. "...so that no one can boast" indicates that it refers to works of man.



Ephesians 4:5, "...one baptism..."

Mark 16:16, "Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved..."

Matthew 28:18-20, "...Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit...."

John 14:16
"And I will pray to the Father and he will give you another comforter, that he may abide with you forever."

John 14:26
"But the comforter, who is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

John 16:7
"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; it is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

The Holy Spirit is alive and among us. That's how God moves today. To deny the existance of the Holy Spirit is to deny Jesus returned to heaven.


Jesus Last commision to the disciples before going into heaven

Matt 28:19
" Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, Baptising in the name of the Father and the Son and of the Holy Ghost."

Jesus gave the disciples authority, and to this day, God gives the gift of the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Um... I think this should go to the religious debate forum...

blu - I'm getting baptised on November 7th.

Sok Munkey,

I do not deny the existance of the Holy Spirit. You seem to have misunderstood what I said.

Acts 2:38: "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."

That means that when you are baptized in water in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Perhaps we are picking on a difference in the semantics of being baptized "with" the Holy Spirit, and receiving the Holy Spirit as a gift after baptism. But, then again, perhaps not. You could argue that, if one is baptized by a Christian who has been baptized and has the Holy Spirit, that you are being baptized "with" the Holy Spirit. Then again, the Bible says that Jesus will baptize with the Holy Spirit. And since Jesus is not here baptizing in-person, you could argue that baptism today is not "with" the Holy Spirit. It may be a difference of semantics, and it may not.

But all that is really beside the point, anyway. That's off the topic of the necessity of baptism for salvation. The simple fact is, Jesus commanded us to be baptized and to baptize. If you choose to disagree with Jesus' own commands, well, God gave man free will; but Jesus' words will be your judge, not what you or I or anyone else thinks.

BV,

That's great man! I'm very happy for you. Why are you waiting so long, though? I mean, a month? If you have made the decision that you are ready to commit yourself to the Lord, why wait? Why not tonight? You can be baptized anytime, anywhere. I mean, I hate to be gruesome, but you or I might not be here five minutes from now. Anything can happen. And you don't get any second chances. The decision is yours, but I encourage you to not put it off for so long.

Argh.. this thread was going great until blujay decided to start bashing heads in and kicking asses. Sigh..

1 Cor. 15:45 - "The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual."

When you have a spiritual thing happening in conjunction or relation with a natural thing (or vice versa), the natural must come first. So what must be true of baptism?

Let me compare this to salvation. Are you forgiven before or after you physically ask it? You must physically ask to spiritually receive.

Except we don't have one.

i met a jehovah's witness once.

She was hot. I acted interested. She got the wrong idea.

end.

if(getThingFlags(source) & 0x8){
  do her}
elseif(getThingFlags(source) & 0x4){
  do other babe}
else{
  do a dude}

Non-denomenationl.

I just can't fully agree with the different denomenations out there.