I am confused at how anyone can vote for George W. Bush…If you are a Bush supporter please explain to me, because I am convinced anyone voting for Bush must have some brain problems...or is just some southern rebel hick (which is the same as brain damage I guess). Here is why:

• Bush is the first president in 70 something years to lose jobs.
  
• We are now in a 3 trillion dollar deficit (I think it’s that much…either way it’s in the trillions)
  
• Bush said in a speech and I quote “I truly am not that concerned about him (Osama Bin Laden). I know he’s on the run. …I was concerned about him when he had taken over a country.”
  
• Bush took his eye off of Osama Bin Laden and suddenly attacks Iraq.
  
• Osama Bin Laden (Al Qaeda) attacked America…Iraq did not.
  
• There are no WMD’s in Iraq, there is NO justification for war.
  
• Bush rushed us into war without a plan (or a piss poor plan), without enough troops, knowledge, justification, and allies. (Even Colin Powell is disgusted!)
  
• Saddam was not a threat, and even if he was, why not attack any of the other countries that have tyrants or WMDs in them? We should have let the UN inspectors finish their jobs.
  
• ‘The Patriot Act’ is more of an invasion of privacy then something used to protect us. Bottom line, it’s crap. It could have been good if it was incorporated right.
  
• “No Child Left Behind Act”…ask most teachers and schools, they will tell you it’s also crap (I asked all of my teachers what they thought of it…They say “It’s garbage”). It’s making things worse not better. It’s actually leaving children behind. It hasn’t done anything it claims.
  
• The discount cards for elderly healthcare don’t do much at all. Polls in my local newspaper and various other places, show that the elderly don’t think they do much if anything at all.
  
• Medicine is being blocked from Canada. That could help us, but Bush won’t allow it.
  
• Medicine prices have skyrocketed.
  
• The rich are getting more money for themselves, while the poor and middle classes suffer. In other words, the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

Unneeded deaths, pointless war, horrible acts, large deficit, etc… George W. Bush and his administration have left America in ruins…. So my question is, do you REALLY think John Kerry can do worse?! Are you worse or better off since the past 4 years have gone by?

this could be an interesting thread.

and just to let everyone know, im not pro-kerry, simply anti-bush

It's been four years, and Tex-Mex gives me heartburn. Boston just has that great flavor (particularly if the flavor is that of a Boston Cream Pie). I say it's time to hit the "flavor change" button.

BTW, SAJN, you should use the "list" tag. Here's how:
Your post would be even more easily readable that way.

[edit: GAH! Even the "code" tags don't stop the lists! anyway, surround the "*" with "[" and "]".

Because I wish there was someone Better then Kerry and Bush, but Bush to me seems the better pick

We wouldn't be in this predicament right now if the Bush family weren't a group of lying cheats in the first place. You expected there to actually BE WMD's in Iraq? The man didn't actually win the freaking election! Why should you expect him to tell the truth about anything?

There is no way in hell I'm voting for Bush, and if it were up to me, he'd be drawn and quartered. Stupid Bush.

"Waaah! Waaaah! The Florida election scandal is so old! Therefore it must be completely irrevelant!"

I will make a guess at translation: "both candidates who stand a chance in the election suck. However, I've eaten what these sucky candidates actually SAY, so I'm letting them tell me which one to vote for"

Is there something a bit wrong with your decision? Generally, if both candidates are bad, it's better to vote for the one that's not incumbent, as then you have a prayer that things might improve. The incumbent will promise simply more of the same, regardless of party.

Im not for either one becuase I hate them both but....
about the 3 trillion dollar defeciet. This is media bulls***. We used to be in a 6 trillion dollar defeceit. It has gone down considerably and as long as we are the United States we will be in a defeciet. I dont know if any country at all has no debt. But other than that i dont really want to go talking in a thread like this.

Maybe they're rich, or upper-middle class? A lot of people here do go to fancy universities. Or maybe they're family has always been Republican, and they need to support their man, no matter what? (I know someone's going to take that too seriously)

Who would make a better President: Bush or a Box of Tic-Tacs?

Maddox, I think, makes a lot of sense. Look at some of the other things he's said about Bush on his site. They're not very hard to find.

You destroy most of your credibility right there.



The President does not create jobs. The President does not order businesses to create jobs. The President inherits the direction the economy is moving when he takes over the office.



The President is not personally responsible for balancing the budget. Congress appropriates money.



Post the entire quote, in context, please; otherwise don't post it at all.



That argument makes no sense. Do you mean that the U.S. military cannot conduct two campaigns at once? In World War II, the U.S. military conducted two separate wars on different sides of the world! Give me a break; that is one of the stupidest arguments made against Bush so far. If you believe that one, you're letting Kerry run your brain.



So? Anyone who says Bush should not have attacked Iraq and that people should vote for Kerry because of that is a hypocrite. Kerry supported Bush when he was starting the war. Now that things aren't perfect in Iraq, he's using the situation to his advantage and claiming that it was the wrong thing to do, when he himself supported the President's actions at the time! Such dishonesty is enough reason not to vote for Kerry right there.



See last. Kerry looked at the same intel Bush did, and came to the same conclusion. Now he says otherwise so that people who don't look at the facts will vote for him. He's a dishonest hypocrite.



Are you just going to quote Kerry here? How in the world do you know what plans the President and his cabinet and the military made before they went to war? Do you think they would make their internal plans public? That is another very stupid argument.



How quickly you forget. A) Kerry said that Saddam was a threat, B) Saddam was leading the UN inspectors around with a carrot on a stick, C) There were SEVENTEEN unenforced UN resolutions; if you honestly believe more UN resolutions would have worked, then you probably shouldn't be voting for President, because that's deluding yourself.



That's the only halfway-legitimate argument so far. Yet, remember, Bush is not the only one responsible for the passing of it. It took the entire Congress, including both parties.



I haven't really looked into that, so I won't comment on it.



Same. Personally, I don't think the government should be responsible for buying people's medicine, anyway.



Bush has said that he wants to make sure the drugs are safe before he allows them in. He didn't say that he never will allow it. Have you even watched any of the debates?



Yeah, King George is responsible for that one. He should make a royal decree that medicine prices shall be cut in half.



Again, King George made a huge mistake there. ... That's an illogical argument, again. That is not something the President can have such an effect on in four years. The economy doesn't turn on a dime. It's like an aircraft carrier; it takes a long time to change direction, and it happens slowly. When a new captain takes over the helm, it's going to keep going the direction it's going for quite a while.



Blah, blah, blah. Your arguments are 90% FUD. I hope you realize that; if not you're just being brainwashed by Kerry.

I think Kerry is a dishonest, hypocrite who is simply taking advantage of the current situation in Iraq to make himself look good; while anyone who would examine the facts would see that he's a liar. I don't want a dishonest person like him as our President.

I could bring up other arguments too, like abortion, but you probably would support Kerry on that too, so I won't bother.

I look at Bush, and see a Simplton trying to get through his day, I look at Kerry, and I see the face of a con, someone working to trick you into believing him, and when he's frowned upon, he switches, That's what I see, and you can do nothing about it
[edit]Bush has heart, Kerry has Politics[/edit]

I don't find the abortion argument to mean much, cause you usually can't convince many people. They are either strong in their religious views or they are not. I on the other had...am against abortion. I am Roman Catholic. Don't see that stopping me from voting Democrat.

SAJN Master: As much as this is the only thing I agree with you on (Kerry), I dont see your argument taking you anymore. You pretty much just spewwed out Kerry's facts from the debate, without doing much research. Stop reprsenting Democrats.

Notice I said Bush AND his administration.


That was the entire quote as far as I know. It was in USA Today a few days ago.


Read the quote, he said he wasn't concerned about Bin Laden, he missed his chance to capture Bin Laden, Bush and his administration hasn't done much at all to get Bin laden since we invaded Iraq.



Not really. Kerry wouldn't have just rushed into war without a plan. Kerry would have avoided the war at all costs. He's been in war and I'm damn sure he knows what 'last resort' is. Bush does not. It's just plain sick at how poorly planned it was. Kerry supported a planned, justified war, we got a senseless clusterorgy of a war.


I don't need to know what there plans were, I can see the results! The results are garbage. Maybe we had a good plan...but you could have fooled me with the aftermath.


I have watched the debates, I have all three transcripts printed out (4 if you include the VP debates). I have read them all.

HORSTMAN: Mr. President, why did you block the reimportation of safer and inexpensive drugs from Canada which would have cut 40 to 60 percent off of the cost?

BUSH: I haven't yet. Just want to make sure they're safe. When a drug comes in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn't kill you.

And that's why the FDA and that's why the surgeon general are looking very carefully to make sure it can be done in a safe way. I've got an obligation to make sure our government does everything we can to protect you.

And what my worry is is that, you know, it looks like it's from Canada, and it might be from a third world.

KERRY: Now, the president said, "I'm not blocking that." Ladies and gentlemen, the president just didn't level with you right now again.

He did block it, because we passed it in the United States Senate. We sent it over to the House, that you could import drugs. We took care of the safety issues.

We're not talking about third-world drugs. We're talking about drugs made right here in the United States of America that have American brand names on them and American bottles. And we're asking to be able to allow you to get them.

I've done much research on factcheck.org, the news papers, the debates, everything. I represent Kerry because I DID research.


I actually DO agree with Kerry on that one (kind of). Kerry said he can't force his religion upon other people, but he does have to give women their rights. He said himself abortion is between a woman, her doctor, and God. I don't agree with abortion, I think it's horrible, but I do agree that a president shouldn't force his religion on others. I like the fact that he mentioned if a woman wants an abortion and the doctor agrees, it's between them and God. So he is still keeping his religion, but he is also giving people their rights.

Just felt that it should be pointed out that this completely baseless conjecture, and that to argue what "Kerry would have done" is rather pointless.

The only back up I can use is from the debates. I need to take his word for it, because it is impossible to tell is someone is telling the truth just by reading what they say. But I am willing to see what Kerry is going to do to fix the problem, and I'm not willing to see Bush drive America into the crapper for 4 more years.

So far noone has answered these questions...

Do you REALLY think John Kerry can do worse?!

Are you worse or better off since the past 4 years have gone by?

1. Because Kerry is a moron.

There are plenty of very good reasons why you shouldn't vote for Bush. Those reasons you gave...are not.

In fact, many of them (those that refer to class inequality and medicine cost) are not so much a problem with 'Bush' specifically, but are part of a much bigger problem, that's existed before Bush and will almost certainly continue after Bush. Class and race inequality has existed in America ever since it was founded. Kerry can't radically change the way the country works, and even if he could, he probably wouldn't.

Yes, by all means, there are many ways in which you can put down and ridicule Bush, but don't think that Bush is the cause of all of the country's problems, because you'll find that getting rid of Bush is certainly not the solution to all of the country's problems. It might, however, be the solution to quite a few of them.

Worse.

blujay wins

Bush is a cyclops?

So in the 2000 debates when Bush and Gore were talking about 'giving the surplus money back to the people', they weren't talking about the money that congress and the Clinton administration had saved up? So when Al Gore was talking about taking all of the surplus money and creating a lock box, he was just making that up? Your saying that the budget was never balanced? That's cute. I respect your naiviete.



I'm ashamed I'd vote for the same person as you, because I don't want to be associated with your ignorance. I genuinely support Kerry. I think that he would make America a better place. However, I simply cannot tolerate your lack of tolerance. If you want to have a serious argument where you can be taken seriously, then its best not to assume people that disagree with you do so because they fall into stereotypes.

In Fahrenheit 9/11, When Michael Moore spoke of those seven minutes when Bush sat in the classroom in Florida, and all of the things I may have been thinking, I didn't feel that Bush was thinking "I was hanging out with the wrong crowd." I honestly sense a true sense of pain. If anything, I think its the most human I've ever seen him, and for that I respect him.

I just disagree with the goals that Bush has set, and the ways in which he has tried to achieve them.

SAJN, wheren't you once very pro-bush? I think I remember that you gave me the reasons why you vote bush which I used once in school for a presentation for which I got a very good grade since I presented a lot of American-thoughts of a diverse spectrum of different persons.

Of course.. But we all know Bush is a genious..

I don't see why so many people are so hardcore about their preferred presidential candidate. Bush people will vote Bush. Kerry people will vote Kerry. And ignorant people won't vote at all. I just don't see how any Bush supporter can call Kerry an idiot.

I can just imagine SAJN inadvertently swining the election in Bushes favor by his post.

On the abortion thing, it isn't only religion. It's a fine moral line no matter where you stand dealing with if the kid is a living being or not and if it is then it's murder.

I have two friends who are anti-bush and all I hear is Bush is an *******, Bush is a ***, he sucks. I ask if they have a reason and they just shrug and drop it. I'm glad they won't be of age to vote because they have done no research and just base their ideas purely on others opinions and the music they listen to such as Green Day, they honestly don't even watch the debates.

Anyways, you should also stop stealing facts from factcheck.org SAJN and stop twisting them to your own means. Cite the article correctly and state you opinion instead of stating your opinion as fact and as your own.

SAJN, just because there isn't nonstop news coverage on CNN doesn't mean that this wasn't planned out. I'm glad they quit the news broadcasts of the war. It was retarded. Although I hate Bush with a passion, at least he quit making the Army's movements obvious.

And he talks funny. His speeches make me laugh.

But I'm stil voting for kerry.

Although I wish I could get some political ad time and broadcast the Bush & Kerry version of "This Land"

Seriously, both candidates suck so if Ross perot ran, I'd probably vote for him instead. But, lesser of two evils, I haven't heard Kerry say much other than he's not Bush, so I'll go with Bush.

How is Bush the lesser of the two evils?

Blujay:


That's pretty stupid. You don't think Canadian drugs are safe? They're coming from the same places.

Yeah... Green Day really influences people's political beliefs. If you're referring to American Idiot, that just tells me that you interpreted it as meaning Bush is an idiot, instead of talking about the run of the mill american dumbass that hates gays and listens to the media... your choice I guess.

This brain-damaged guy is voting for Bush because I agree with most of his principles. Bush is a far better person than Kerry IMO. Kerry wants to spend spend spend. I don't believe as, blujay said, that the government should be paying (wholly) for prescription drugs. Kerry wants to build our alliances but I have yet to hear how. I would go more into detail but I have class now.

And a song that refers to a presidential gas man and the fact that my friends listen to it while putting Bush down and told me themselves it was political. I hadn't heard of it before I listened to it with them, and honestly I didn't hear many of the words so I took what they said as true. I have trouble understanding the lyrics in almost any music. There political beliefs are based on emotion and hype, cliches, not fact, that's my point.

Bush has killed the enviroment, the assault weapons ban, americas reputation, wants to drill oil in the alaskan wildlife refuge, he doesn't support abortion, he thinks he can earn amercas votes with tax cuts, and he is dumb as a rock.

I'm not voting for Bush.

I'm English.

Well they have very poor musical comprehension.

Don't want to be an American Idiot
Don't want a nation under the new mania
Can you hear the sound of hysteria?
The subliminal mind f*ck America

(Chorus)
Welcome to a new kind of tension
All across the alienation
Where everything isn't meant to be ok
Television dreams of tomorrow
We're not the ones meant to follow
For that's enough to argue

Maybe I'm the f*ggot America
I'm not a part of a redneck agenda
Now everybody do the propaganda
And sing along to the age of paranoia

(Chorus)

Don't want to be an American Idiot
One nation controlled by the media
Information age of hysteria
Calling out to idiot America

(Chorus)



So yeah you be the judge. I personally think your friends are the American Idiots here.

And the first person to say that Green Day should be more sensitive and not use the word f*ggot in their songs gets a kick in the face. They once wrote a song about the sexual confusion that kids go through sometimes questoining their sexuality. It's not a derogatory term in this use.

Maybe you shouldn't insult my friends when you can't even read my simple post. I wasn't talking about that specific song, so give it up. Oh, and that word, it's not appropriate.

I honestly believe that Gore would have had the same trouble given the events that led the economy to go to crap. As blujay said, the President can't jsut wave his magic wand and make jobs appear out of nowhere.



The first administration to use deficit spending was a democratic administration and Bush isn't the only president to do so.



bin Laden is certainly a threat and it's not as if we don't have people still looking for him. US armed forces are still in Afghanistan as we speak. There is just very little press time being dedicated to it these days.



I don't know that he took his eye off bin Laden. Iraq is certainly getting more press. Right now, he believes bin Laden in Pakistan, which isn't being totally cooperative.



Bush had the balls to do what the UN didn't after the first Gulf War and for the decade or so there after when Iraq wasn't cooperating with the UN.



Bush may have OKed the military plans, but it was top military brass that come up with the plan, not Bush himself



See above post about conjones



Not really a fan, but I truly have no way to see the benefit of the Patriot Act. I can't really form an educated opinion at this point



Not familiar enough with the plan to comment



Better than nothing, I suppose.



No disagreement. Prescription drugs should be more available to people who need them the most.



So have healthcare costs, but I don't know how Bush is responsible for it (other than preventing the generic versions from hitting the counters).



I don't know about all that. He's lowered the tax burden on the lower and middle class, the people who need it the most. Part of that has to due with the economy and lack of jobs which I don't think Bush really could have helped.



I don't trust Kerry to see Iraq through to the end and I don't believe him when he says he won't raise taxes. Also, his claim that "rich" are people who make more than $200,000 is absurd. I have a feeling that number will drop down to around $100,000 a year, which doesn't make someone, especially families rich. All he has said is "I have a plan and I can do better". Care to explain how? If there were more substance to how he would be better than George Bush, I might very well be voting for him. However, he has yet to do that for me. At least Bush makes his positions clear.

Furthermore, I am not brain damaged in anyway. I just don't buy into Kerry's phantom stances on anything important.