....not to mention the fact that he traded a 9800 for a TNT2 because he couldn't quite grasp how to get the ATI drivers to work in Linux.
There's something just a little bit... uh.. unique about our good buddy here.

You can have it, but I think it's ruined. (I overclocked it too much)

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Nevermind, I forgot that I shot it with a pellet gun and blew all the chips off.

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I check my e-mail.

I've been thinking about this for a while, and have come to some resolution. At first, I thought about what you said and realized that I maybe am being too zealous about Linux. However, I still can't totally agree with you. I'll give an example. At our school library, we have various computers that students have access to. They all use the same user account, which is not an administrator. However, people still manage to load it down with spyware. One day I turned on a computer and had to wait 10 minutes for it to boot up. I then opened Internet Explorer, which took another 3 minutes. When I clicked on the address bar, I got a BSoD followed by a reboot. I get an average of 1 BSoD a day from those computers, and I sometimes get up to 4 or 5 a day. I'm not exaggerating here. I do realize that the administrators are not properly maintaining the computers. My point is, however, that Linux does not allow this kind of crap to happen in the first place. If there is one place that could benefit from Linux's security and user model, it is in public computers. I've never had a spyware problem on Linux, and it's very hard to mess anything up without a root password.

Edit: I'd also like to mention that the computers had various versions of Windows loaded on them, including Windows XP, 2000, 98. I don't think any had 95.

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[This message has been edited by Mystic0 (edited April 15, 2004).]

One word:

Users

Well, yeah, who runs win95 anymore?
it doesn't support newer technologies like USB, Cd burning, or the like. It's too obsolete to be relevant today.


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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

[This message has been edited by Pagewizard_YKS (edited April 15, 2004).]

That's my point. Windows permits them to skrew things up. In linux, that's hard to do without a root password.

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First mistake is giving them access to an admin account, which most places do. Second mistake is trusting them with that admin account.

Best thing to do on a purely public PC is have software running that reverts the Windows partition back to a set image stored on another partition on reboot.

It wasn't an admin account...

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Then that's where reverting to a backup image comes in.

Linux on public computers in some place like a school is an impractical solution.

You'd have to install it on every machine. You'd have to revamp your network setup. You'd have to replace software(lots of schools use Windows or DOS based software for maintaining grades, student schedules, etc.) You'd have train faculty in how to use it, and even then that probably wouldn't help most of them. You'd have to teach students how to use it.

Or, you can buy identical machines, install it on one computer, uber-configure it, then copy the partitians over to each other machine.

The user should never have to go to the command line. If they are, they are doing something they don't need to do in a public computer.

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BTW, I don't think it's a practical solution, nor do I think it is ready to be implimented. I'm just comparing it with Windows security framework. If this were backwards land and linux was populer, I doubt this would be a problem. I realize that people don't have the time to learn a new OS.

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I have both, SUSE Linux 9.0 (German distro) and WinXP Pro.

I wanted to learn how to use Linux. But I had some problems with it.

I don't like the anti aliasing that it uses to show websites (I used Mozilla and Opera). I don't like kopete, gaim and xchat.
And I am not used to the file system - I use the Dos/Windows kind of file system with C: D: E: (...) for over 10 years, so I got very used to it.

Probably if I took the time and learn how to use it, I would use Linux more often than Windows.
But I don't have the time. So when I want to use it, I want to know what to do.

And doesn't windows look nice:
http://www.fishclan.net/forum/album_pic.php?pic_id=143

And after all, that Linux is free, Windows isn't cheap.

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My levels

www.i.hate.matyy.de

pazarol a világ, én meg segitek neki

Linux can look nice...

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What I realy dislike in Linux is that there is always a small border around my browser window, about 1 or 2 px wide in white! While in Windows an expanded window always fills the whole screen (but the taskbar, but opera in fullscreen, that uses realy all the space)

is there a way to change that?

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My levels

www.i.hate.matyy.de

pazarol a világ, én meg segitek neki

my uni uses ME, why for heavens sake i don't know but, to stop idiot students trying to screw over the computers they completely wipe the computers hard drive on every restart, all the user data is stored on a main server and although you can screw up your user area you can't do anything to the pc.

That being said if you have a good knowledge of windows you can do certain things you shouldn't ;p, but out of the whole uni population i guess only 1-2% know.

The point is i've used windows computers that stored stuff on them from the previous user and over time it does screw up, the network i'm on at the minute is great, the only way you can get the computers to crash is if you ask too much of them...

what this means to me is that windows, even ME which is...just nasty, can be a stable system as long as its maintained properly and is clean of things that can mess with it, even the bad os' like ME and 95/98

i'm a XP user on my own machine and I have yet to have a system crash in nearly 2 years now, programmes yes, OS not YET...i use linux/unix in the uni for more scientific stuff and have a rough grasp of it for the things i need to do but still have issue's every-now-again doing things, mostly due to MY in-experience.

Windows is mainstream, people are brought up on it or on mac's, both of which are similar...if the first pc people were given had linux on it and that was all they could use then they would come to use it like the majority use windows, it just takes time to get used to how things work.

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I heard someone say once that the world is a fine place and that it was worth fighting for....I agree with the last part.

People of our generation should not be subjected to mornings.

Rbots website

Since you're using SuSE, I figure you're using KDE as well? I don't have that problem myself, but if you go to your window decoration settings, there could be a slider for a border setting. The Plastik theme in 3.2 does, and I think Keramik does as well.

Linux vs. windows basically boils down to one thing:


power/stability vs. usability.


Most windows users don't give a f*** about knowing everything about their computing environment or being able to modify the source code of their operating system. Rather, they want an OS that is mainly powerful enough and easy enough to use right out of the box. Stability is more or less a bonus-- after all, what good is it to have a stable linux system when joe schlump over in accounting doesn't know how to use it and the linux instructions assume that you are knowledgeable of the linux jargon and what all the obscure terms mean. Most people aren't.

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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

[This message has been edited by Pagewizard_YKS (edited April 15, 2004).]

PW, Linux is NOT unusable. Im sorry, your just plain wrong. In my opinion, for me, the way I have my box set up, is worlds more usable than Windows could EVER be.

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I used to believe that we must fight the future, lest change come without our consent. I was wrong. The truth is that we must embrace the future, for only with change can we remain the same.

Times I've crashed Linux: 1

Times I've crashed Windows 2000: 0

=P

99% of problems are user created.

[This message has been edited by Darth (edited April 15, 2004).]

Yeah... Gentoo and Debian are very easy to maintain once you get it installed. (That's the hard part )

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define "usable."



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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

Pagewizard: I am glad to see that you are exploring Linux. Your argument is good, but is a little flawed. I think GBK and I will agree with you if you change "usable" to "user-friendly". (And even that can vary, depending on the distro)

I think this thread has gone off topic (my fault... )

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[This message has been edited by Mystic0 (edited April 15, 2004).]

I am/was using redhat 9, which is supposed to be the easiest, like I posted earlier.

For me, the hardest part is figuring out how to do basic stuff. it would have been great if they had included a windows- mode that is similar in appearance and function to winxp to help new users through the transitional phase.



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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

I think the key here is practice, and I am more than willing to help you. E-mail me at linuxtreme3000@hotPOP.com if you have any questions.

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PW: Redhat is far from the best. Its ok as a server, but for the love of GOD dont use it as a desktop.

Try either Mandrake or SuSE. SuSE has always been my choice as a desktop - its clean, fast, and stable. Mandrake . . well . . . Mandrake treats you like a dumbass, but some people like that sort of thing...

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I used to believe that we must fight the future, lest change come without our consent. I was wrong. The truth is that we must embrace the future, for only with change can we remain the same.

I am thinking about installing linux on my fathers PC, because he doesn't need to many programms (Openoffice and an email client would make it). His PC is always full with spyware, sometimes some viruses, dialers and so on. But a network with one linux and two windows pc is rather stupid, at least I didn't like it.

And because of the stability, I have XP installed for 34w 4d 22m and I don't remember a crash where I had to shut down my computer. I think there was one once, when I overclocked my CPU
Linux instaled for one week and every second day a whole crash, every day some program hang up (...) - it's probably my fault, but I don't want to waste money configuring my system for being stable.

We use in school windows with some netware software, and it sux bad. There are some freaks who don't know better ways to spend their time then to configure computers, at home they all use Linux and the server which is the internet gateway and file server is allready on Linux for years.

So I don't think there'd be a problem to leave the teachers pcs running windows while changing the open workstations os to linux...

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My levels

www.i.hate.matyy.de

pazarol a világ, én meg segitek neki

<3 Linux, but I have no use for it.
<3 Windows, but it's comparitively unstable.

I am one in a million.

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"Apples rule. If it weren't for a conspiracy on the part of fruit manufacturers we'd all have apples."

That doesn't look particularly nice...

Personally i've had more crashes on Linux than on Windows XP (i'm talking about crashes in general rather than total lockouts because i've never had one of those in either). Linux is a nice sturdy system at the time immediately after installation, a large part of the problem is the software. Just about every distribution contains about 5 different programs for every conceivable task, I find myself installing all of them just to find one which is good (which I fail to do :P). This means that before you're fully up and running you already have excessive bloat to get rid of (unless you're experienced with linux in which case you already know your favourite apps). I tried numerous window managers and still prefer the XP/explorer interface. I don't like how I found myself scouring forums looking for clues on what I should be doing in order to get the Microsoft Webfonts (for example) installed.

However, one thing just about everyone should agree on is that Openoffice is TERRIBLE.

I won't waste my money on MS Office. And since I was allready used to Star Office I now use openoffice, and I like it. It has all I need - but I don't need much

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My levels

www.i.hate.matyy.de

pazarol a világ, én meg segitek neki

If you don't blindly click "yes" to everything when surfing the net, it's pretty easy to keep a computer spy-ware free. The only "spy-ware" I ever find on my computer are certain cookies that Ad-Aware picks up, nothing major. WinXP Pro runs stable as hell on my box, as does Gentoo with the latest dev kernel.

Portage may be a blessing but waiting 3 days to compile X, KDE and Gnome? ****ing ridiculous. And it's not like my computer is running any faster than it does with Windows, if anything it's slower. But one thing that I really miss when I reboot to Windows is Linux's file system. I love how I can point any directory (such as /home) to a different partition

There's no need to force personal preferences onto other people. Most people are not willing to take the time to learn how to bootstrap/compile/install Gentoo and no matter how much anyone bashes Windows, it's not going to change their minds. It's their personal preference, it's easier to respect their choice than to try and change their minds

I do feel that Gentoo is the best (performance wise) Linux disto available of all the distros that I have tried (I still haven't tried SuSE). My buddy uses Debian, and that's cool; I don't try to make him switch, because in the end, we're still just browsing, gaming and coding. And when it comes to gaming, I'm sure even Mystic will agree that Windows is best (thanks again Mystic for helping me getting 3D acceleration to work in Gentoo ). WineX and Crossover Office just don't cut it. Just look at how sluggish Steam/CS 1.6 is in WineX unless you have a relatively (1.5ghz+) fast computer. In Windows, I could run CS on a Pentium MMX-150.

I can't really say one OS is better than the other, because I don't use them for the same thing. I like Windows for gaming, and I like Gentoo for productivity. Each has their bugs (although Windows somewhat more ), their advantages and disavantages, but each one can keep a system stable and fonctional. If Windows crashes uncontrolably, you probably screwed up, and the same goes for Linux.

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When guitars are outlawed, only outlaws will have guitars.

[This message has been edited by MaD CoW (edited April 16, 2004).]

Funny how he helped me get my Radeon 7500 to work, which is much more complicated than getting the ATI binaries for the 8500 and + to work ...

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When guitars are outlawed, only outlaws will have guitars.

[This message has been edited by MaD CoW (edited April 16, 2004).]

Why? is it because it's not specifically designed for new users, or b/c mandrake and suse are better suited to the task?



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Old aunts used to come up to me at weddings, poking me in the ribs and cackling, telling me, "You're next." They stopped after I started doing the same thing to them at funerals.

Red Hat doesn't like my computer, so I can't comment on that, but Mandrake makes everything a lot more obvious and "in your face" to Windows users, and makes the transistion easier (example: Mandrake has a very good Control Center, making it a lot easier to configure your hardware without editing text files). I learned Linux starting with Mandrake, and moved on to other distros afterwards.

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When guitars are outlawed, only outlaws will have guitars.

Thank you MaD CoW. It seems that you know what's going on.



Have you ever tried "emerge --usepkg" or "emerge -k"? I'm not sure if the packages are maintained as well as the source, but you should try it if you havn't. Also, many people do a statge 3 install to avoid the long compile times.



That wasn't very nice. What the **** is wrong with it? I have a good background, a good theme, and a good XMMS theme.



Not to mention that Reiserfs is much faster than NTFS. (Proof: Morrowind saves and loads much faster in linux)



Now if we could all adopt that statement....

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[This message has been edited by Mystic0 (edited April 16, 2004).]

Us Gentoo users understand each other



Yeah, you can always go that, but then where's the fun of having a program compiled and optimised to your specific USE flags? Also, the packages are usually a little behind the source releases.

The first time I installed Gentoo I did a Stage 1 install. Needless to say that when I reinstalled that I started from Stage 3



Why wasn't I informed that there was a native port of Morrowind for Linux??

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When guitars are outlawed, only outlaws will have guitars.

[This message has been edited by MaD CoW (edited April 16, 2004).]

Winex.

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Damn

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When guitars are outlawed, only outlaws will have guitars.

You could try the free cvs version of Winex. There is a 'fake ebuild' for it... I have no idea what that means.

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I check my e-mail.

A fake ebuild means that it was slipped into the portage tree when it shouldn't really have been. It's been taken out, try to emerge it and you will see.

I've download the WineX CVS version from Transgaming before (different versions up to and including 3.3), and although I am impressed, Windows still remains my gaming platform



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When guitars are outlawed, only outlaws will have guitars.