Most events do get written down after they happened. It would be hard to do otherwise.


I think the oral stories part only goes up to the time before Moses. He was, after all, the writer of the first five books.

That's not to say that others didn't keep record, which is a possibility to some extent.

Yes, Christians do condemn homosexuality but not homosexuals. There's something called "hate the sin but not the sinner". The only true sin that'll condemn anyone to hell is to reject Christ.

I think I like SavageX's description better. It's a little clearer than mine was.

The Letters Books are probably the closest to have been written in a timely manner. If I recall my religious studies from high school, the gospels were written some time after Jesus was crucified.

if i remember right,
mark was like 50 AD.
matthew was 85 AD
Luke was ???
John was in 90-something AD

in 2 years you can forget a lot.

anyway, it was at least 20 years between event and writing.

Since I am not simple, I shall question the lines in the bible that condemn homosexuality.

It is no question that homosexuality is not a choice. Many homosexuals are ashamed of themselves and wish they could change. If it was a choice, then they would not be this way. It has also been shown that genetics are a cause.

Since homosexuality is not a choice, God made these people homosexual. However...



If God makes people homosexual, then he is tempting them to do homosexual acts. Since God doesn't tempt people into doing evil acts, homosexuality cannot be evil.

We're just saying that not all of us Christians run around saying "OMGWTH that's gay! Kill it Get rid of it!" I may not approve of homosexuality, but I sure as heck won't go around persecuting the people practicing it.

But why hate it in the first place?

IT'S TRUUUUUE!!!!!



And you purport to know the will of the Almighty so well?

Cause God says so!

It's been speculated that only 25-50% of homosexuals have a disposition to homosexuality. If it does exist, it's thought to be a recessive gene (thus explaining why heterosexual parents could give birth to a homosexual child).

There needs to be a band called "Sponge Demons"

"Hey mister president, I wanna take you to a sponge bar"

I don't care what it does/doesn't promote. Spongebob is stupid.

Those “protestors” obviously think that they are somehow better than gays. That's a bunch of arrogant nonsense. It also shows that they have no idea how salvation works. God doesn’t save you because of your own merit. It's totally of grace. I would say that that kind of arrogance is at least as bad, if not worse than homosexuality. What they’re doing is the equivalent of being saved from a burning building, and then mocking those who are still in it. The ironically those “protestors” are probably not even saved.

The proper way for a Christian to approach a sinner is to tell them the gospel, and pray that God would save them. Homosexually is a sin. Just like any other sin. Think of it this way. If we rated sins on a number system, we’d probably rate telling someone to “**** off” as maybe a 2, and killing some one as maybe a 100. But in God’s sinless eyes, it would be more like 600,000,000,002 and 600,000,000,100. In other words, no matter how few bad things you do, don’t think that you’re so much better than someone else.

You may have to read that through a few times to understand it. :p I'm not that good at rhetoric in the morning.

I agree with the first part. But the last part... yes, God doesn't tempt people to do evil; Satan is the one who would tempt someone to commit evil acts. Therefore, homosexuality can be evil (and again, the Catholic church holds that it is evil)

Hehe, Obi still believes in fairytales.

Satan doesn't make people homosexual, though. God does that.

If god is any god, he probably doesn't give a flying **** what we do, as long as we do it in good nature. I'm not trying to hurt anyone with buttsex, so I doubt god really cares, sin or no. That is, if there's a god, which I can't possibly believe, so this is all moot.

JediKirby

I said I agreed with that part.

What I'm trying to say is:

God made people homosexual. Satan tempts them to use it for evil.

Just as:

God made [such and such a band] capable of great success. Satan tempts the band to be obnoxious jerks to the poor folks who were not as fortunate or successful as they were.

If God makes people homosexual, but homosexual acts are evil, isn't it more like your parents giving you a really cool toy but forbidding you from playing with it?

The one who makes them homosexual is the one who does the tempting.

dude my religion says homosexuality is a sin as well. but it also teaches tolerance. if you see two gay people kissin, you dont beat them up in a park, you just dont look at them.

similiary, you have a video of cartoon c haracters telling you to tolerate a whole bunch of things, and you disagree with one of them so you sack the whole video? thats intolerance. im pretty sure christianity has its do's and don'ts. homosexuality might be a don't, but so is intolerance and this crap im sure. religiously, you are only responsible for yourself, and your children. yes you can try and 'save' your communities, but for the love of god, this is not how. those people are going to be shocked if they think by doing this they're pavin their personal road to heaven.

no one likes tattle tails. not even god.

So God tempted Eve to eat from the tree? And God (or in this case, Allah) tempted Saddam to dictate his people and kill his opposition? God tempts people to be obnoxious? God tempts people to reject Him and/or His son?
God gave people a choice: to give in to Satan's temptation (to commit evil), or to do His will (to do one's best to avoid evil).


If God gave Adam and Eve a tree, but to eat it's fruit was evil, isn't it more like He gave them a toy but wouldn't let them play with it?

If God said that killing people was evil, but He creates a storm that kills all people on earth except Noah and his family, isn't it like God is breaking His own rule, and that we can all go around and kill whoever we want?

(Okay, the second analogy in particular sucked.)

I'm just going to disappear from this thread now... or at least from this argument thing -- it isn't getting anywhere.
[very late edit] I think I may have screwed up when I said that, like I make it sound like I didn't start the argument. I did start it. Didn't fully mean to though, which is why I'm going to back out. [/edit]



I don't know any details on this video, or the song, that is being attacked by the activists. All I know is that it supposedly promotes homosexuality.
When and if I see the video (and I probably won't), I'll decide that for myself.

But why create some people as homosexual and some not?

If he's testing us to see whether we 'give in to evil', then surely he'd be testing all of us, and judge us based on personal conviction. A heterosexual isn't very likely to ever 'commit' a homosexual act, so they don't ever have to worry about that sin. But people 'created' as homosexuals are going to be put at an unfair disadvantage in being 'tempted' into 'comitting' a homosexual act. If you get 'plus points' for not 'comitting' homosexual acts, then the heterosexuals are going to get those 'points' without doing any work.
Or perhaps homosexuals get extra bonus points if they don't 'give in' to temptation, but heterosexuals aren't even given the choice so won't ever be able to get those extra bonus points.
Any way you see it, it's dreadfully unfair, and you committing a 'sin' is more up to God than it is up to you.

Homosexuality is the current sin that's popular for Christians to hate. In the 1920's it was alchohol, in the 80's it was D&D, in the 90's it was video games and abortion, and now that those uppity gays have it in their minds that they should have the same rights as everyone else, the Christian community has taken it upon themselves to beat them back into their place.

It's stuff like this that makes me ashamed to admit I'm even associated with Christianity.

I think abortion is still a hot one, maybe not nearly as much as it was... referring to Kerry btw.

The church argued against alcohol? Wtf? What about the blood of christ? You have to use a specific grape wine for that, unless you have a really good reason (like an alcoholic priest). But then I guess they'd give themselves that permission...

why would God make some people gay and not others?
Everyone has different strengths and weaknesses. Some people are prone to alcohol/drugs, some to sex... you get the idea. So my guess would be that everyone is tested to see how well they handle their own individual weaknesses in character.
Like how Jesus was in the desert and was tempted to forget about God and use his divine power alongside Satan. And to resist the temptation to save himself and not die on the cross to save us.

But, to be fair, at least Noddy was sleeping with Big Ears. So that's a bit of evidence. But I mean, is anyone surprised? That hat was just too fashionable...

I find it unbelieveable that people will actaully sit down and watch a cartoon and search for "gay" behaviour or whatever, its rediculous.

The prohibition movement in the United States had its grounds in Protestant (and maybe Catholic?) churches.

I think most of you didn't read that article well enough. They aren't talking about Spongebob the series, or even condemning it they are saying that its "being exploited" for a NEW video used in schools. It has other cartoon characters in it. The overall theme of the video is tolerance, and diversity including the acceptance (or at least tolerance) of "sexual identity"

Most all the other Christians i know love spongebob. The ones that don't are usualy girls who think its "stupid" not gay ;). They also seem to be quite tolerant of homosexuals. Of late i've seen great emphasis on the "hate the sin" ideology. Every one has an area of their life that will always be a struggle. Hopefully as our flesh is revealed more to us in our walk with Christ, we can relate to, and love the homosexual more.


Could any one try and offer some proof with the claim that homosexuality is caused by a gene? Besides pop media? I've seen this said many times but never seen any proof(Or decent theory). This "fact" seems to be something that's been force-fed into the American consciousness without our noticing.

My fact came from a Human Sexuality lecture, and he stressed that it was theoretical and a flimsy theory at best. Even then, it only accounts for 25%-50% of homosexuals.

I didn't know God made people of a particular sexual preference.

Also, so what if it's genetic? That in itself makes it ok?

Is it even possible for you to post in a religious topic without blantantly insulting people's beliefs?

Well, yes. It's like saying being negro is a sin, and then condemning all blacks because of it.

There isn't actually anything remotely 'bad' about homosexuality, it's just the Bible that condemns it. It may have been grounded in health concerns 2000 years ago, but we've come a long way since then. If you just 'got rid' of the religious aspect, no-one'd really care about homosexuality, and that's the way it should be.

As for whether homosexuality is genetic..

There have been some pretty awful case studies trying to prove this. Obviously a positive result would mean a lot for homosexuals, but there are a lot of people who are a little too eager to prove the point and this results in some awful science and ends up damaging the case for genetic homosexuality more than anything. So yes, if you're looking for research that's been debunked, you'll find a lot of it.

The whole thing tends to be based in psychology, a questionable 'science' at best, so I tend to avoid it wherever possible.

One thing that has been observed is that homosexuality occurs in many animals. Beetles, sheep, bats, lions, dolphins, monkeys, they've all displayed homosexual or bisexual behavior, both males and females. Bonobos are African apes closely related to humans, and about 75% of all bonobo sex is homosexual.
Why exactly this occurs baffles zoologists, it obviously doesn't have any reproductive value. But it seems that bisexuality has some sort of social benefit.

Certainly in predators, homosexual tendancies act as a social 'cement' making competing males less aggressive to eachother and more likely to hunt in packs (and thus survive better). But why it occurs in apes, or sheep, or in females of the species generally, I don't know. It could just be down to sexual gratification. But from monkeys to mosquitos, homosexuality occurs throughout the animal kingdom, so there's no real reason to think that homo sapiens should be any different.

I love how my post has been completelly overlooked...

Maybe that's because I'm absolutelly right, and the only person who's actually speaking from the position of a homosexual? You decide...

JediKirby

Not really, since that's not psychological.

So what your saying is that if something is genetic, it's acceptable. Based on your logic, it's ok to be criminally insane and murder people. Genetics. Your logic doesn't quite hold up. Was there a point to all that, or were you just trying to appeal to nature? And when exactly was the last time you had gay sex? If I kept up on what you've posted around here, you've only recently decided to persue your homosexual interests. Me... I've been all the way down that road. Many times.

Since when should humans be on the same level as animals?

Humans are part of the animal kingdom.